So, we're going back, and this changes all plans. . .

[La Condessa]

We've had some very unexpected changes come up in our lives, the result of which is that we are moving back to the town we used to live in. We'll be there for a year at least, possibly longer. I have really missed our friends and the caring, small-town community feel there and the beautiful environment and outdoorsy lifestyle, but there were some real negatives, too. Their public education there is really terrible, there are no educational enrichment opportunities, and with the exception of the one homeschool family we were friends with, the homeschool community shunned us because we were the wrong denomination for them.

 

The sweet little community bleeds education-oriented families and young people because there are no opportunities there, leaving many retirees, the families who either don't value eduction or are just checked out of their kids' lives altogether (rampant drug problems), and the die-hards who love the place too much to go and continue to make the best of what they have. The population routinely votes down any levy for the schools, drugs are a big problem even down to the fifth grade, and about one in four girls drops out of school pregnant before graduation. I've thought long and hard about what could possibly help, and I wanted to run my ideas past you guys.

 

I want to start a nonprofit educational enrichment organization. Once we have an official 504, we could apply for many different grants and tax-exempt donations. Even before we were planning to move, I was planning on trying to get together a Classics Club and maybe a Math Circle for my daughter's benefit, but if I do it down in our old town under the nonprofit, they could be the first offerings of the organization (plus I would be going to other parents for their ideas and encouraging them to get involved, especially the moms of those die-hard families).

 

Once we have something specific to offer, I would go to the K-8 school's superintendent. Citing how we specifically want to make our educational enrichment activities easily accessible to the kids who's parents are not going to get involved and who generally just wander the town after school, I'd ask permission to hold our activities on the school campus after normal school hours. The church down the street from the school might be another possibility if they refuse.

 

We could go to the local rotary club, elks, etc and try to get the community involved--see if people would be willing to come and share their areas of expertise with the kids. We could seek grants to fund things like a science fair and music classes. (I know a retired man in the next town south who is a certified Suzuki violin teacher and offers lessons at very low rates because he believes all children should have music. If we could get funding for the instruments, he might teach for very little).

 

Eventually, it might even be possible to seek support for a school-within-a-school charter that allowed for individualization and incorporated some of these activities into the school day and allowed for partial enrollment, which homeschoolers could then take advantage of while at the same time bringing in some more funding for the school. (They've shot down suggestions of establishing a charter school in the past, thinking it would take money from the existing schools, but maybe this would be a way for them to see that nothing would be leaving the school with this plan).

 

What do you think? Any suggestions? I have attorneys in the family who could help me with setting up the 504. Am I being unreasonably optimistic about our chances in a community that has so neglected education in the past?

[FairProspects]

How much time do you have? Are you going to do all this unpaid?

 

Depending on the size of the area, yes I think you may be overly optimistic. Getting the paperwork set up as a non-profit is expensive and incredibly time consuming - months or even years. Also, really check out the grants available. Grants are few and far between when they even exist for your organization (many are so specific they are only given out rarely) and also take months or years of work before you receive a cent.

 

Setting up educational opportunities is one thing and could be a great experience for your family, but all the rest sounds like a full time job and a headache. I have a difficult time understanding how you could even attempt to do all that and homeschool 4 kids, but maybe you are a much braver woman than I!

[La Condessa]

Yes, it would be unpaid, and a lot of work. Getting other people involved and working together would be essential, but even so, it would be a ton to handle. One thing I had considered was that there is an official nonprofit for preschool education that was created by some moms in the area a few years ago that is no longer being used for anything (or was not, when we moved away last fall), which I thought might be repurposed. My dad, who works with nonprofits, said that changing a name and altering the purpose of a nonprofit is fairly simple and involves informing the IRS of the change. Of course, this would only be possible if the ladies who first established the preschool nonprofit were on board.

[raptor_dad]

Unless you have significant previous experience doing that sort of thing, I would start by trying to set up a free Math Circle and if you have more time after that an after school enrichment program under your local 4h/urban 4h umbrella. Your local Ag extension may or may not be very helpful but can certainly sponsor and deal with some of the admin. overhead and make you both more credible and less threatening when dealing with the schools. 

 

[kiwik]

It will takefar more than a year.

[MBM]

I think you have some wonderful ideas.

 

For anything you propose, make sure you list details explaining how you would plan to carry out your ideas, what it would entail (or not), and most important of all, how it would benefit the kids and community. You want to sell your ideas to others and answer the question: Why bother?

 

Using retirees who are looking to help and keep busy is a fantastic idea. Our high school enlists a small army of retired teachers and people-with-skills to help students during the school year. It's completely volunteer but helps both groups. Personally, I think it is one of the big reasons the average ACT score here at our public high school is over 28.

 

Some schools in our area have schools within schools. Lincoln Park High School in Chicago essentially has this, IIRC. Look to see what others are doing. Maybe they have something useful online or would be willing to share.

 

Sometimes all it takes to make changes is one person. Maybe that is you. Good luck!

[desertflower]

I don't have any business advice. I wanted to wish you luck and will say a prayer for you tonight. I think it'll take a lot of hard work especially since you had some push back just because of your faith, and it doesn't seem like the community values education.

 

Like the pp said all it takes is one person. Good luck and keep us posted. We'll share the tears and joys together. :)

[desertflower]

Btw, congrats on your new baby. I'm a little late, but I haven't sen you post in a while. :)

[mathnerd]

I have tried to implement big projects in my local school district and I found that even though I could make them successful, they took way too much time from my personal life. I stopped doing them at that point. Your project scope sounds a lot more than mine - and I had 3 other parents contributing but it still was a lot of work and co-ordination.

I suggest that you start programs for activities that will benefit your kids first - Examples - Math kangaroo test center, first Lego league, Math Circle, group Suzuki violin lesson, chess club, destination imagination, computer programming using scratch/logo etc. none of these are too expensive and with other parents helping, can be quite successful and enriching to your kids too. You can see what local support you can get and then move on to bigger projects.

[sportsmom]

You have some great ideas.  

 

My concern would be that you might be starting off with too much and without enough support (both in terms of participation and help).  I have no experience with a 504, but I do run a 501©3 (a recreational youth sports team) and I can tell you that the time commitment that you are looking at is HUGE.  The one I run has been a part of our community for many years and has a strong following.  I have to do very little in terms of promoting it and trying to get people to participate.  With that said, the actual organization of it takes me 20-40 hours per week for the off-season and at minimum 100 hours/week during the season.  Even though we accept donations, we still heavily rely on fundraising to supply our financial needs.

 

As has already been mentioned, securing donations/grants/etc. is not as easy of a process as one might imagine.  Have you considered how to raise funds in case these don't come in at the level that you expect?

 

I would suggest that if you are able to survey some of your target audience (survey monkey is a great tool) to see what kind of program that people are most interested in and you could use that as a starting point.  A facebook page that you could use to drum up interest would also be a good idea.  Anything you can do to get people engaged and interested prior to spending a lot of time and money.

 

It sounds as though some of your target audience (checked-out parents/wandering kids) may be low-income.  Perhaps you could advertise that you will have snacks at your meetings.  I'm sure that some would show up just for that reason.  You might even be able to secure donations from a local vendor.  This might make it somewhat more difficult on you (potential behavior problems), but who knows what might happen in the long run.

[La Condessa]

It will takefar more than a year.

Yes. My hope is to get the organization set up and offering at least a couple activities and some other people involved within a year, in the hopes that if we do move then, others might continue once we're gone. The other, more complicated ideas would be longer term goals. The charter idea would probably only be a possibility to try if the organization was up and going strong, and if dh's boss retired and dh ran for his public position so we knew we'd be staying for at least an additional 4 years.

[La Condessa]

Dp

[La Condessa]

I have tried to implement big projects in my local school district and I found that even though I could make them successful, they took way too much time from my personal life. I stopped doing them at that point. Your project scope sounds a lot more than mine - and I had 3 other parents contributing but it still was a lot of work and co-ordination.

This is my biggest worry, that it will just drain everything I've got to give, and even then maybe not be enough.

 

My concern would be that you might be starting off with too much and without enough support (both in terms of participation and help). I have no experience with a 504, but I do run a 501©3 (a recreational youth sports team) and I can tell you that the time commitment that you are looking at is HUGE. The one I run has been a part of our community for many years and has a strong following. I have to do very little in terms of promoting it and trying to get people to participate. With that said, the actual organization of it takes me 20-40 hours per week for the off-season and at minimum 100 hours/week during the season. Even though we accept donations, we still heavily rely on fundraising to supply our financial needs.

Yikes, 100 hours / week?! How do you possibly manage that? What specifically do you spend that time on?

 

I suggest that you start programs for activities that will benefit your kids first - Examples - Math kangaroo test center, first Lego league, Math Circle, group Suzuki violin lesson, chess club, destination imagination, computer programming using scratch/logo etc. none of these are too expensive and with other parents helping, can be quite successful and enriching to your kids too. You can see what local support you can get and then move on to bigger projects.

Oh, thank you for these ideas!

 

As has already been mentioned, securing donations/grants/etc. is not as easy of a process as one might imagine. Have you considered how to raise funds in case these don't come in at the level that you expect?

I thought for the first activity (probably Classics Club to prepare for the NME) I would see if parents would be willing to chip in or possibly just foot the bill for the materials myself, as I was planning on doing this for my daughter anyways. But besides that, we would have to have funding through grants, donations, fundraisers, or parents who are willing to pay themselves. I don't want this to be limited only to the kids from families with means, though. Some activities might require little in the way of funds if we have people who are willing to donate time and local businesses that donate materials, like for art classes.

 

I would suggest that if you are able to survey some of your target audience (survey monkey is a great tool) to see what kind of program that people are most interested in and you could use that as a starting point. A facebook page that you could use to drum up interest would also be a good idea. Anything you can do to get people engaged and interested prior to spending a lot of time and money.

I've never heard of survey monkey, I'll check it out. A Facebook page is probably exactly the way to reach folks, thanks, I hadn't thought of that!

 

It sounds as though some of your target audience (checked-out parents/wandering kids) may be low-income. Perhaps you could advertise that you will have snacks at your meetings. I'm sure that some would show up just for that reason. You might even be able to secure donations from a local vendor. This might make it somewhat more difficult on you (potential behavior problems), but who knows what might happen in the long run.

Exactly, I really want it to be easily accessible and appealing to any kid who is interested; homeschool, public school, parents involved or not. I'd thought of snacks, but wasn't sure about the cost. I hadn't thought of seeking donations of snacks, but the two local grocery stores would be worth asking.

[La Condessa]

if the wanderers are your target group, I would say it would be very difficult. Our public library has had many many attempts at drawing them in with the type of clubs that used to exist in the middle and high school. Manga has done well, but the population isnt there for Math, board games, science, lego,book clubs , artist and music programs, anything that resembles school or is related to a class.

 

I think you will find your interested members are nvolved in sports or music afterschool, as well as 4h or scouting.

 

A meeting room is not free here, with the exception of the public library.

The wanderers are not the whole target group. I want these things to be available to all of the kids who might be interested, though, not just those with involved parents. That's why I thought it would be best to try to meet at the school or just down the street, as opposed to in private homes, the library, or the local elks lodge. I do not think that paying for a space would be feasible, though.

[Dmmetler]

I would suggest asking parents to pay a little-even if you put it all into snacks, etc. I've found that $20 seems to be the point at which people take a regular activity more seriously and you get a more consistent group. That's especially important for Classics Club/NME, where you have to pay per child. I'm charging $30/kid for my groups this year, which lets me have some wiggle room to waive the costs for parents who really are struggling.

[La Condessa]

I would suggest asking parents to pay a little-even if you put it all into snacks, etc. I've found that $20 seems to be the point at which people take a regular activity more seriously and you get a more consistent group. That's especially important for Classics Club/NME, where you have to pay per child. I'm charging $30/kid for my groups this year, which lets me have some wiggle room to waive the costs for parents who really are struggling.

Do you have any suggestions of how to do this but still include the kids who's parents are checked out? I thought about maybe not charging for lower income families, but I'm concerned that that will still leave out kids who are embarrassed to say they can't afford it or their parents don't care, as well as the squeezed-in-the-middle group that have far fewer opportunities because they cannot qualify for assistance or afford many activities from their own means.

 

I had thought of doing something like a kid's music class I used to take my kids to, where it was come-one-come-all, but the teacher would sometimes ask the parents to pay an amount to help with ____ cost if they were able, but I don't think that would help with your point of getting families to be consistent.

[sportsmom]

I am technically the "secretary" for our organization, so I handle all parent questions, rosters, uniform design/ordering, coach communications, volunteer scheduling, acquiring sponsors, spirit wear design/ordering/sales, and keeping our facebook page active.  What this boils down to in real life is responding to emails (15 hours a week during peak season), candy/drink sales at practice (3 hours 4-5 days/week), selecting new spirit wear, generating enough interest for an order (pre-orders through facebook), ordering, and delivering (10+ hours week, depending on what we have in stock), organizing rosters and paperwork for the league (5 hours total unless new players are added), communicating with coaches to make sure they don't need anything or need messages sent to their parents (up to 1-3 hours per week, depending), organizing volunteers for games (Signup Genius really helps, but I have to go back and email if slots are open, if no one responds then I and other board members fill in those positions as needed), shopping for candy/drinks for the concession stand (3 hours), games are on Saturdays and we are on the field for a minimum of 8 hours total for prep and cleanup.  Essentially, we have 4-5 days a week of being on the practice field for 3.5 hours (prep and cleanup) and an 8 hour day on Saturday for games.  Then I have general maintenance, email responses, interest generating via facebook, and fundraising/spirit wear that happens on an almost continual basis the rest of the week.  Basically as soon as someone emails, I respond.

 

ETA....

 

As far as charging for participation goes, we have great success with giving a reduced fee to those on the lunch assistance program where we only charge the cost to uniform a player (i.e. registration fees are $175, but the reduced fee is $65 which is our cost to outfit a player with a jersey and pants and all players are issued all required equipment to play on a turn-in basis, but players keep the uniform).  Reduced fees for the lunch assistance are on the honor system (legally, we aren't allowed to request documentation), but we really only have a few that ask.  We do have a great number of people who we do a payment plan of sorts during the season.  You could always ask some of the local businesses or people in the community to "sponsor a player" where they could donate the associated fees so that someone who might not be able to afford to participate would have the opportunity - to be awarded at your discretion.

 

I do agree that charging parents to participate will help with some of the issues that you are concerned about.  If you think that you will have that many that will have a difficult time paying, then I would suggest that you make sure the fees per child could be stretched to cover at least 2 children.  

 

For sponsorships, I would definitely check with the local grocery stores and if you have any restaurants nearby (fast food/sit down/mom and pop type places) ask about a partnership with them.  If you had a local restaurant with a meeting room, they might be willing to allow you to use that space as well as help with food.  Never hurts to ask!  We also get a donation from Pepsi each year and they donate some drinks - look into companies like that, especially if they have distribution centers nearby, Lance, Frito Lay, etc.  With Pepsi, we just have to have someone go pick up the donation from the local distribution center, and they don't require that we are limited to only Pepsi products during the season. 

 

Also, if you were able to make a t-shirt for your group and include it in the "registration" price, I think that would really go over well.  Not to mention it's great advertising and the kids feel like they are part of a special group.  I try to make a special t-shirt for the kids for each major part of the season (not including regular season - they are getting a $50 jersey then, haha).  But we did a different design for our spring camp and there is another design for our summer camp.  You should be able to get a nice t-shirt for $5 each, depending on your design and quantity ordered (that would be based on a 1 color design, with 24 shirts).  If you have to order extras for a minimum, make sure you don't add a year or anything so that you can hand them out as more people sign up.  That will also save you from having to redo setup costs in the future if you reorder.

 

I may have given you WAY more information than you need right now.  I'm kind of a crazy person when it comes to stuff like this.  

[EndOfOrdinary]

It took my son and I working over three years to acquire non profit sponsorship. We homeschool because my son speaks regionally against climate change and our non profit work was so substancial it took over our lives. Even with professional grant writers as my mentors, I have yet to land a grant over 5,000 dollars. He has a team of mentors who are nationally known commuty organizers and specialists and he is just starting to be paid money for what we do after having done it for over six years. Entering the school systemic is a major mess. Just skip it and partner outside the schools.

 

I think you have a great idea. Nothing is impossible. However, If you cannot devote three to five years with a good 35 to 50 hours a week, it is virtually impossible.

[sportsmom]

The 30 per head suggestion is way too high here for a short course, especially if duplicating a library, school, or some other youth program. 

 

This very well might be a valid concern.  When pricing I try to compare with similar programs (using number of sessions, time of each session, and my cost).  You won't ever make everyone happy, but if you find a fair market price then you should be able to get enough participants to cover your costs.  In my experience, even when people complain about the costs, they still generally participate. (I have one family that complains about the price of gas to get to practice...  :001_rolleyes: )

 

One other thing you might need to consider is insurance coverage.  Obviously, in a sports environment, that's a necessity, but I'm not sure if you would need it in other scenarios with kids.  Just something else to consider.

[EndOfOrdinary]

One other thing you might need to consider is insurance coverage. Obviously, in a sports environment, that's a necessity, but I'm not sure if you would need it in other scenarios with kids. Just something else to consider.

Insurance is major with youth. One of the largest reasons we have non profit sponsorship (not status, but sponsorship) is that insurance was incredibly expensive. Our umbrella covers us and we just pay the add on to the policy, rather than the entire policy. Sort of like adding an additional car or driver with auto insurance rather than a whole second policy.

 

The second reason is that to acquire non profit status takes somewhere around two to three years on average (the filing and approval alone are months sometimes). It often costs in the thousands of dollars with all the lawyer fees. Sponsorship saved us all that.

 

Most grants will explicitly not cover non profit filing fees, lawyer fees, paying any employees, or insurance.

[mathnerd]

Insurance is major with youth. One of the largest reasons we have non profit sponsorship (not status, but sponsorship) is that insurance was incredibly expensive. Our umbrella covers us and we just pay the add on to the policy, rather than the entire policy. Sort of like adding an additional car or driver with auto insurance rather than a whole second policy.

 

The second reason is that to acquire non profit status takes somewhere around two to three years on average (the filing and approval alone are months sometimes). It often costs in the thousands of dollars with all the lawyer fees. Sponsorship saved us all that.

 

Most grants will explicitly not cover non profit filing fees, lawyer fees, paying any employees, or insurance.

I just remembered that non-profits need to file annual tax returns with the IRS as well, right?

[sportsmom]

I just remembered that non-profits need to file annual tax returns with the IRS as well, right?

 

That is correct.

[La Condessa]

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, this last week has been crazy.

 

I may have given you WAY more information than you need right now. I'm kind of a crazy person when it comes to stuff like this.

Actually, that was super helpful in giving me a picture of what running an organization could really be like. Thanks!

 

I think you have a great idea. Nothing is impossible. However, If you cannot devote three to five years with a good 35 to 50 hours a week, it is virtually impossible.

Good to know, though a little discouraging. I was originally hoping it might be more like 20 hours per week.

 

What is the transportation constraint? Do you need to have the children already in town? Do they need bussed home, or will the timing work out for parent pickup? Or is the location close enough that they can walk?

Is it going to be multiage so that those who are babysitting sibs afterschool can come? The program that successfully picks up low income here is Boys and Girls Club. They are subsidized and they meet where the kids want to be...in a park with basketball and skateboarding for the olders, and playground for the youngers. Children are bussed there afterschool by the district, and picked up in the evening.

 

The 30 per head suggestion is way too high here for a short course, especially if duplicating a library, school, or some other youth program. Scouting and 4h run about $115 a year per youth and provide fundraising opportunities for the youth so that no one is excluded for lack of ability of parents to pay. Keep in mind free/red lunch parents are used to having their costs picked up....speaking from experience, you will need to sit down with them and remind them that everyone needs to help fundraise if your organization is not going to cover them in full.

 

Agree this is a full time job. Committee chair for cub scouts took me 20 hrs a week.

The idea was to hold the meetings where kids can easily walk to. Different activities would probably have different age ranges. Required fundraising participation might be a really good alternative to include everyone who wants to participate--what kinds of fundraising activities do you do?

 

One other thing you might need to consider is insurance coverage. Obviously, in a sports environment, that's a necessity, but I'm not sure if you would need it in other scenarios with kids. Just something else to consider.

Hm, I hadn't even thought of that, but that would be major. Also, we might have to get background checks on all volunteers. I wonder how much that costs (or if it would be okay to ask dh to just run the checks for us)?

 

The second reason is that to acquire non profit status takes somewhere around two to three years on average (the filing and approval alone are months sometimes). It often costs in the thousands of dollars with all the lawyer fees. Sponsorship saved us all that.

 

Most grants will explicitly not cover non profit filing fees, lawyer fees, paying any employees, or insurance.

I do have an advantage there in that my dad is an attorney specializing in nonprofit work, and dh is also an attorney. When my little brother's high school was struggling for funding, my parents and some others formed a board and made a nonprofit foundation for the school. My mom was on the board and my dad donated the legal work. My dad is not a member of this state's bar, though, so while he can give us some help, he cannot just file it for us.

[sportsmom]

Regarding background checks, our police station will run the checks for free and issue "coaches cards" to everyone.  Both our county and the neighboring one will do them at no charge, so you might call and check to see if that is an option.  Depending on how large your county is, they might only do them at specified times - the neighboring county is only on Saturday mornings and Wednesday evenings, but I believe ours you can just walk in at any time and have one done.

 

Insurance is a HUGE part of our expenses - we had a spring camp and the total cost for 2 days/week for 2 months was around $650, mostly because that was pretty much everyone's minimum premium.  I could have doubled the amount of kids without it changing my premium at all.