Hakg Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I have searched threads here regarding the above, but could only find one dating back to 2009. I posted recently about not wanting to continue with W&R for DS10 (he has only used Fable) and reverting back to using IEW (which DS quite passionately dislikes). He has used SWI-A (in grade 3) and ATFF (in grade 4) with a good 10-12 month break in between both, but completed neither (he is currently grade 5). He got about a third through each and we had to let it go both times because the dress-ups really frustrated him. The reason I want to go back to IEW is because I think it did teach him to write better than any other writing program we have used (and we have tried several). He writes decently already without having to feel the need for forced dress-ups. The forced dress ups often made his writing sound grammatically incorrect and were just unnecessary for him. I have been wondering if I could use the TWSS (loosely) and pull writing assignments from his history/science/geography readings, and not enforce the dressups and checklists (these 2 requirements caused his intense dislike of the program). Instead I would make suggestions along the lines of the dressups after he has completed his first draft. If his first draft does not need dressups and just needs some polishing, then I don't want to force them. I also don't want to insist on 'banned words' because sometimes there is a need to use some of those simple words. Rather, if he uses the simple adjectives too often, we could talk (at the first draft stage) about using stronger adjectives to make his writing sound more descriptive. By using IEW this way, would you say I am completely missing the whole point/benefit of the program? And I'm also curious to know if anyone else uses IEW in a way which is very different to how it is prescribed, and if you have been successful with it? I'm a little nervous using IEW this way, because I feel like I need quite a bit of hand holding when it comes to teaching writing, but am hoping the TWSS will give me that. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I have searched threads here regarding the above, but could only find one dating back to 2009. I posted recently about not wanting to continue with W&R for DS10 (he has only used Fable) and reverting back to using IEW (which DS quite passionately dislikes). He has used SWI-A (in grade 3) and ATFF (in grade 4) with a good 10-12 month break in between both, but completed neither (he is currently grade 5). He got about a third through each and we had to let it go both times because the dress-ups really frustrated him. The reason I want to go back to IEW is because I think it did teach him to write better than any other writing program we have used (and we have tried several). He writes decently already without having to feel the need for forced dress-ups. The forced dress ups often made his writing sound grammatically incorrect and were just unnecessary for him. I have been wondering if I could use the TWSS (loosely) and pull writing assignments from his history/science/geography readings, and not enforce the dressups and checklists (these 2 requirements caused his intense dislike of the program). Instead I would make suggestions along the lines of the dressups after he has completed his first draft. If his first draft does not need dressups and just needs some polishing, then I don't want to force them. I also don't want to insist on 'banned words' because sometimes there is a need to use some of those simple words. Rather, if he uses the simple adjectives too often, we could talk (at the first draft stage) about using stronger adjectives to make his writing sound more descriptive. By using IEW this way, would you say I am completely missing the whole point/benefit of the program? And I'm also curious to know if anyone else uses IEW in a way which is very different to how it is prescribed, and if you have been successful with it? I'm a little nervous using IEW this way, because I feel like I need quite a bit of hand holding when it comes to teaching writing, but am hoping the TWSS will give me that. Any thoughts? No, by using IEW that way, you are using it exactly as it was prescribed! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 As I understand it this is actually encouraged. Your plan sounds perfect. Be flexible in your approach and allow the program to work for you instead of the other way around. Absolutely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakg Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Really? Great - I am pleased to hear this! I've asked over at IEW too and am awaiting their response. I thought I would be told that there is no point in using the program if I am going to remove the stylistic elements. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Indeed Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 SWB even says in WTM she likes IEW, but would not recommend the dress ups! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenHomeschooler Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks for asking this question! I was going to ask almost the exact same thing. I'm thinking of trying TWSS but don't want to use any of their other materials. I just want to tie writing into other subjects with some step by step ideas for teaching my reluctant writers. My mom used the early (think VHS) edition with us when I was in HS and I especially disliked the dress-ups. Good to know that it will work without the extra student materials and without following it exactly as written! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Not a problem! I love the structure IEW teaches, but the style seems forced sometimes. I've found it beneficial to point out where my kids are naturally adding adjectives, adverbs, etc. and why we'd want to use a 'strong' dress-up, but that's not critical IMHO. :001_cool: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 This sounds similar to what I am planning for my Dd10 for this coming year. I have been reading and studying to become a capable writing teacher for middle grades. (I can write reasonably well, just not sure of how to teach a student to do it.) SWB's lecture on teaching writing in the middle grades might be helpful and encouraging for you! Chrysalis Academy (Rose), Lewelma (Ruth in NZ), 8 Fill the Heart and many others here have great threads on teaching writing. I have learned so much from this community! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakg Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have now heard back from IEW. If you are interested in hearing what they have to say you can view my query over at their forum in the Miscellany section. From what I understand, one of the instructors is recommending the use of the dress-ups as being an important part of the program, the other is giving ideas on how to use the dress-ups without being too forceful with them. I think I will use the dress-ups as suggestions when brainstorming ideas at the draft stage to improve DS's writing, both when writing from outlines and narrations, but I wont enforce them. And we definitely won't refer to them as 'dress-ups'! As for the checklist, I will use that as a guide/reminder but not require DS to use it, as this causes stress, especially if he realises he left something out. I want to remove a lot of the 'formula' from this program and use it more as an aid to help ME to understand how to teach writing so I can pass that on to DS. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrie_irene Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is such a helpful thread! We are getting ready to dig into IEW this fall! Thank you all so much! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeriJ Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thanks for asking this question! I was going to ask almost the exact same thing. I'm thinking of trying TWSS but don't want to use any of their other materials. I just want to tie writing into other subjects with some step by step ideas for teaching my reluctant writers. My mom used the early (think VHS) edition with us when I was in HS and I especially disliked the dress-ups. Good to know that it will work without the extra student materials and without following it exactly as written! Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that IEW's structure is just basically the "Ben Franklin method". SWB even mentions this method in her writing lecture. I plan to use the IEW structure this year without any of the "style" and without any of their published materials. We're just going to pull from our history and science studies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakg Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that IEW's structure is just basically the "Ben Franklin method". SWB even mentions this method in her writing lecture. I plan to use the IEW structure this year without any of the "style" and without any of their published materials. We're just going to pull from our history and science studies. Yes, sounds like the KWO's in IEW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Yes, sounds like the KWO's in IEW. Yes, IEW teaches more than KWO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternallytired Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 From what I've gathered, the dress-ups ARE the heart of the program (at least the "style" part)...but IMO, you can practice the dress-ups without forcing them into your writing. I was having some dress-up rebellion, so I switched to asking the kids to brainstorm ways in which they COULD use each of the dress-ups. Then when they wrote, they used only the dress-ups that felt right. It may have been cheating the method, but it was a way of practicing the style without making the writing too stilted. And the dress-ups did naturally work their way into the kids' writing once they had practiced them (naturally being key). I'll be interested to see what the good folks at IEW have to say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakg Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 From what I've gathered, the dress-ups ARE the heart of the program (at least the "style" part)...but IMO, you can practice the dress-ups without forcing them into your writing. I was having some dress-up rebellion, so I switched to asking the kids to brainstorm ways in which they COULD use each of the dress-ups. Then when they wrote, they used only the dress-ups that felt right. It may have been cheating the method, but it was a way of practicing the style without making the writing too stilted. And the dress-ups did naturally work their way into the kids' writing once they had practiced them (naturally being key). I'll be interested to see what the good folks at IEW have to say. I agree. After doing a lot of research, I believe you can use the 'dress-ups' in a less forced way and still benefit from the program. I also feel some kids (like my DS) don't really need the dress-ups. I will be using the dress-ups as suggestions when we brainstorm at draft stage, but if DS feels that adding a dress-up will make his writing sound clunky, grammatically incorrect, or he really just cannot find a place to add one in naturally, then I wont force it. The last thing I want with teaching writing is tears and frustration. You can check out the thread I started at the IEW forum under Miscellany. It is the most recent thread, so you shouldn't have trouble finding it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakg Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 SWB even says in WTM she likes IEW, but would not recommend the dress ups! Do you know in which edition of WTM SWB refers to this. I have the 3rd ed. I'd like to see what she says about IEW because I plan to use IEW short term (2 years) with our goal being WWS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakg Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Thanks for asking this question! I was going to ask almost the exact same thing. I'm thinking of trying TWSS but don't want to use any of their other materials. I just want to tie writing into other subjects with some step by step ideas for teaching my reluctant writers. My mom used the early (think VHS) edition with us when I was in HS and I especially disliked the dress-ups. Good to know that it will work without the extra student materials and without following it exactly as written! I don't know how it will work without the extra student materials, and I'm hoping it doesn't end up being a whole lot of extra work for me. Having used the program twice before (only up to unit 4/5), I'm hoping familiarity with the program will make it easier to use the TWSS alone. This is going to be our last shot with IEW so I hope it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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