Baby Sleep - Any Troubleshooting Ideas?

[justme824]

I'm trying to figure this girl of mine out

 

My first sucked his thumb, wanted nothing to do with us at all come bed or nap time, and was a rock star sleeper.

 

My second was an absolutely horrible sleeper. Night terrors since he was about 6-months old. For his first 12-14 months he needed to be touching someone to sleep. He just now, at almost 4, has finally become a good sleeper.

 

And now my third. She is six months. I wear her for naps at 1, noon, and 3/4. The first one is about an hour, second about 90-minutes, third just 30-minutes. She needs to be asleep for the night by 7pm or she is a total bear the next day. I've tried other times and this just seems to be her sweet spot, even if her naps are wonky during the day. BUT she wakes up after 20-minutes of sleep and then needs to pretty much nurse nonstop until about 11ish. I can usually snag 15-minutes away from her about 3-4 times during this time. If she was my first I'd be totally fine, just read or watch tv and let her do her thing. But I have two older ones and I feel our relationships are starting to suffer.Everything I've read says she is overtired, but she doesn't show any signs. She is happy all day long.

 

We already co-sleep, she falls asleep nursing on the bed and I am able to unlatch her when she is drowsy and she moves around a bit, get comfortable, and sleep. For about 20-30 minutes.She has no underlying medical conditions. I'm just pretty much her pacifier.

 

I don't want to let her cry, but I need to figure something out so I can have some time with my older two before bed, especially my oldest.

 

I'm all ears for ideas. My oldest is gone next week and it would be an ideal time to rip off the bandaid and make changes.

[Erica in OR]

One of our twins was a very short sleeper. 20 minute naps, max, while her sister would sleep like a rock for hours. Two things that eventually seemed to help a little were when my sister came to visit at six months, she gave her one of the soft cloth diapers that we were using like burp rags. It (or any other from the bin) became a "raggie" for her that helped to soothe her when needed. Also, we were using an Arm's Reach Co-sleeper Mini for them, and at some point, we thought she was starting to outgrow it—she would brush or rub the sides and wake up just enough that she was then up for the cycle. We transferred her to sleep in a pack and play where she had a little more room and that helped as well. 

 

Best wishes and hugs! Baby sleep is so tough. That phrase "sleeping like a baby"? Ha!

 

Erica in OR

[Ottakee]

I did not nurse of my 50 or so babies (foster) so that might change the game quite a bit. Co-speeing was obviously never allowed either. I did though get every one if them on a schedule by 6 months old.

 

I had their bedroom dark with a small watt night light. I had on a radio that was playing quietly...either christian music or more elevator type stuff.

 

Naps were 10 am, 1:30 pm, and doze if needed supper time. The bedroom always seemed a bit cool so at naptime I would zip them into a blanket sleeper right over their clothes. They had a little lovey or pacifier of they wanted. The idea of a clean cloth diaper is good as if you lose one you have many more.

 

I DID do the cry it out thing....modified. I would let them.fuss a few minutes and th . Go in and reassure them and rub their backs and him soomething (but no real talking) and then step out and let it go a few more minutes and repeat until they feel asleep. After about 2 weeks all of them were sleeping well.

 

Honestly I had to do this as often I would have 3 under the age of 2 or 5 under 5 and I needed a schedule for survival and my sanity.

[mom2samlibby]

_{When and how long does she nurse during the day?  It sounds like she is cluster feeding to me.}

 

_{Can you keep her awake to 8 or 9 in the evening, so you can be with your other two and then put her to bed?  I know you said that is her sweet spot, but it sounds like a cat nap and then feeding time.  I'd adjust that some.}

[Shellydon]

You have trained her to sleep next to you/on you.  I don't see anyway for you to get away from her since you have taught her that being with you is the way to sleep.  If you are willing to transfer her to a crib for naps and bedtime, then move her to your bed when she first wakes up, then that might work.

[matrips]

What is her first nap time? It says 1, but assuming it's 10 or 11. Have you tried an earlier morning nap? And maybe not on you? It sounds like she is waking up during that light period of sleep after the 45 minute mark. If she can get through that and go back to sleep, she'd get another hour in. so many babies wake up at that 45 minute mark or so, and then folks think they're done. But it's just a light sleep and they need to get back to sleep for a truly good rest. Just comfort or calm her through it and keep it quiet and dark.

 

As far as earlier naps go, mine at one point needed to go back to bed at 8:30 am. Shortly after waking up! If I tried to keep them up until 10 or 11, they just didn't nap as well. Such trial and error sometimes! But I do think her morning nap should be two hours, not one. Remember the saying, sleeps begets sleep!

 

The cluster feeding is worth a shot. We did this when they started trying to sleep through the night and it helped.

[mom2samlibby]

You have trained her to sleep next to you/on you.  I don't see anyway for you to get away from her since you have taught her that being with you is the way to sleep.  If you are willing to transfer her to a crib for naps and bedtime, then move her to your bed when she first wakes up, then that might work.

 

I agree with this, too. Can you start putting her down in her crib for naps?

[imagine.more]

You have trained her to sleep next to you/on you.  I don't see anyway for you to get away from her since you have taught her that being with you is the way to sleep.  If you are willing to transfer her to a crib for naps and bedtime, then move her to your bed when she first wakes up, then that might work.

 

Yeah, to be honest this is kinda why we don't co-sleep past the first few weeks (and even then it's rare). I always figure babies sleep the way they're taught to, just like they eat the way they're taught to. A breastfed baby who never has a bottle will rightly refuse a bottle later. A bottle fed baby would also be aghast at being offered a breast, lol! Similar with sleep. My babies are used to sleeping in the crib and could not possibly fall asleep in bed with us, they fuss and wiggle forever until we move them back to their crib then they sigh and fall right to sleep happy as clams. Not that co-sleeping is wrong, it's just that you can't have it both ways. Just like once in a blue moon I'd love to snuggle my babies to sleep on me and I know I just can't past 2-3 months because by then they're accustomed to the crib and only sleep well there. Likewise my co-sleeping friends occasionally want to put the baby down to sleep in a crib and go make a phone call or help their big kids with something and they can't. 6-12 month olds are the least flexible too imo, they kinda stick with one way or the other and that's all they'll do :)

 

Anyway, I think basically you'll have to decide what you want ideally (besides the obvious sleep, haha!) and go from there. Like is co-sleeping important to you or was it just a convenience thing? What are your goals (just falling asleep without you, sleeping a long stretch at night, more consistent naps?) and how can you balance those with the reality of her temperament and habits?

 

I think if it were me I'd focus first on getting her to sleep without nursing. Rocking, shh-ing, patting, etc anything to get her to sleep without nursing. She first has to learn not to fall asleep nursing to sleep well (I define well as 2 hour naps and a 12 hour night of sleep without interruption). Maybe enlist your husbands' help. But if she's been fed within the last hour and then cuddled and such I'm sure you can make it work, I've nursed all mine but never had a problem putting them to sleep without nursing. If you want to wake her at 7am or whatever I'd nurse her for example at 7am and 8:45/9am, then change her diaper and put her down drowsy but awake by 9:15-9:30am for her first nap. When she wakes around hopefully 11am or so I'd do the same again, nursing twice and changing her diaper AFTER the second nursing so she's not falling asleep at the breast. Then do the same for evening and hopefully by 7pm she'll have had her fill of milk and not be actually hungry except for maybe a quick top-off at 10-11pm before you and your husband head to bed. 

 

If you'd like to transition her to the crib but without crying it out I'd look into The Baby Whisperer. Your LO is a bit old for it, but I love the 4 S routine. We did that with our second and third born and second born never CIO until 6 months though he slept fantastic and even then his "crying it out" was 2 minutes (I timed it) on a handful of occasions (6-7 nap times over the course of a month at 6 months old).  Our third born cried a bit more but she was younger and still was overall my best sleeper. And even her crying was not more than a few times ever. A 4 S routine or the Pick-up/Put-down routine might help you transition her gently to her own crib (or a Montessori floor bed might be a good transition if she's used to co-sleeping since you could lay nearby and gradually lay with her less and less). 

 

Your 7pm bedtime for her really is perfect, a lot of baby sleep research says 6-8pm is ideal for bedtime for most babies and likewise 6-8am is the ideal wake up time for the day. At 6 months 2 big naps (1.5-2 hours) and 1 short nap (45-60 minutes) is very normal. A few babies can switch to 2 naps at that age but most need 3, so your DD is right on point with naps even if hers are a bit short at the moment. So I think you've set up a decent baseline and just need to tweak a few things to allow yourself some freedom to go and spend time with the older ones while she's sleeping. I know my older ones love the time after the littles go to bed too. 7pm is the time we break out the secret ice cream and board games after all  ;)  

[HS Mom in NC]

I co-slept, baby wore and nursed my kids to sleep for bedtime and naps and was able to walk away from them once they fell asleep. Same with my friends. So, clearly co-seleeping, babywearing  and nursing them to sleep isn't actually the root of sleep problems.

Has she used antibiotics?  Did you during pregnancy? Sometimes antibiotics affect the gut and some kids can have behavior and sleep issues from it.  Go to Diane Craft's website to learn more. http://www.diannecraft.org/articles-by-dianne/

[justme824]

I co-slept, baby wore and nursed my kids to sleep for bedtime and naps and was able to walk away from them once they fell asleep. Same with my friends. So, clearly co-seleeping, babywearing  and nursing them to sleep isn't actually the root of sleep problems.

 

Has she used antibiotics?  Did you during pregnancy? Sometimes antibiotics affect the gut and some kids can have behavior and sleep issues from it.  Go to Diane Craft's website to learn more. http://www.diannecraft.org/articles-by-dianne/

Nope - she's never had any, and I had none while pregnant.

[justme824]

What is her first nap time? It says 1, but assuming it's 10 or 11. Have you tried an earlier morning nap? And maybe not on you? It sounds like she is waking up during that light period of sleep after the 45 minute mark. If she can get through that and go back to sleep, she'd get another hour in. so many babies wake up at that 45 minute mark or so, and then folks think they're done. But it's just a light sleep and they need to get back to sleep for a truly good rest. Just comfort or calm her through it and keep it quiet and dark.

 

As far as earlier naps go, mine at one point needed to go back to bed at 8:30 am. Shortly after waking up! If I tried to keep them up until 10 or 11, they just didn't nap as well. Such trial and error sometimes! But I do think her morning nap should be two hours, not one. Remember the saying, sleeps begets sleep!

 

The cluster feeding is worth a shot. We did this when they started trying to sleep through the night and it helped.

Oops - It is two hours after she wakes, so sometime between 8:30/9:00. I typically plop her in the Ergo after breakfast and go about the morning routine. She falls asleep when she is ready and it is pretty much two hours after she wakes up on the dot. Shy typically sleeps about an hour and 10-minutes for this nap, wakes up extremely happy and smiling. I have never been able to get her to sleep longer than this. The only day of the week this was trouble was Friday when I had to get my older to a 9am class. But the last few weeks she has started falling asleep in the car right at the 2-hour mark.

[justme824]

_{When and how long does she nurse during the day?  It sounds like she is cluster feeding to me.}

 

_{Can you keep her awake to 8 or 9 in the evening, so you can be with your other two and then put her to bed?  I know you said that is her sweet spot, but it sounds like a cat nap and then feeding time.  I'd adjust that some.}

During the day she eats about every 3-hours or so, and she eats well. I don't think she is cluster feeding - she doesn't seem to be eating, just pacifying.

 

I've tried keeping her up but she'll just start fussing and crying if we go past 7ish. The only thing she'll let me do is either let her comfort nurse, or walk around with her, neither of them helping me with my older two needing to get some mama time.

[Tsuga]

I'm trying to figure this girl of mine out

 

My first sucked his thumb, wanted nothing to do with us at all come bed or nap time, and was a rock star sleeper.

 

My second was an absolutely horrible sleeper. Night terrors since he was about 6-months old. For his first 12-14 months he needed to be touching someone to sleep. He just now, at almost 4, has finally become a good sleeper.

 

And now my third. She is six months. I wear her for naps at 1, noon, and 3/4. The first one is about an hour, second about 90-minutes, third just 30-minutes. She needs to be asleep for the night by 7pm or she is a total bear the next day. I've tried other times and this just seems to be her sweet spot, even if her naps are wonky during the day. BUT she wakes up after 20-minutes of sleep and then needs to pretty much nurse nonstop until about 11ish. I can usually snag 15-minutes away from her about 3-4 times during this time. If she was my first I'd be totally fine, just read or watch tv and let her do her thing. But I have two older ones and I feel our relationships are starting to suffer.Everything I've read says she is overtired, but she doesn't show any signs. She is happy all day long.

 

We already co-sleep, she falls asleep nursing on the bed and I am able to unlatch her when she is drowsy and she moves around a bit, get comfortable, and sleep. For about 20-30 minutes.She has no underlying medical conditions. I'm just pretty much her pacifier.

 

I don't want to let her cry, but I need to figure something out so I can have some time with my older two before bed, especially my oldest.

 

I'm all ears for ideas. My oldest is gone next week and it would be an ideal time to rip off the bandaid and make changes.

 

The No-Cry Sleep Solution I found generally encouraging though it did not work for me, though it may have improved things a little bit.

 

Still, of all the books I read on sleep, it's the one I can recommend, because it generally aligns with my feelings about child-rearing: be consistent, gentle, and use all resources available to you.

 

I feel for you. Sleeplessness is very hard.

 

Also... some people are light sleepers. There seems to be a continuum from "I will make you a living zombie who wants to die because I don't sleep" to "Haha I will wet the bed until I'm 12 because I NEVER WAKE UP."

 

Most kids are in between those two extremes of light / hard sleep, like my first. However my second was much closer to the "I will make you a living zombie."

 

And no--no antibiotics, exclusively breastfed for six months (maybe 5.5 because she was grabby), I ate all organic meat and very little, I drink very little milk and eat only yoghurt and cheese for dairy, I tried elimination diets (just made me skinny as heck), it was awful before vaccines and gradually improved over the years as we got more and more vaccines so they weren't a cause, don't even go there. I night-weaned at six months because I wanted to improve her sleep. We did not co-sleep after two-weeks (forgive me, I could not let a two-week old really sleep alone) and I even had her nap in the bassinet from day one, just to avoid the nipple-bink problems.

 

I tried to give her a pacifier many, many times. I did what the books say, what grandma said.

 

She's just a light sleeper and so am I. It was hard. My heart goes out to you.

[justme824]

I agree with this, too. Can you start putting her down in her crib for naps?

Naps might be tricky for her, but I am totally willing to put her in the crib at night. She just screams bloody murder if I do. She'll happily play in there during the day for chunks of 10-15 minutes, but sleeping in there just hasn't worked. She started out in a bassinet beside our bed and would sleep there until for about 5 hours before waking up around 11/12. Then I'd just bring her to bed with me at that point. She starting rolling over and waking up every single time because she'd roll right into the side and wake up so I moved her to the crib instead. It worked for about two weeks, and then this whole waking up issue started. I've actually only been laying down with her for about a week or so just to try something different. If this worked I'd have just put her mattress on the floor and called it good (that is what worked with my second).

[justme824]

The No-Cry Sleep Solution I found generally encouraging though it did not work for me, though it may have improved things a little bit.

 

Still, of all the books I read on sleep, it's the one I can recommend, because it generally aligns with my feelings about child-rearing: be consistent, gentle, and use all resources available to you.

 

I feel for you. Sleeplessness is very hard.

 

Also... some people are light sleepers. There seems to be a continuum from "I will make you a living zombie who wants to die because I don't sleep" to "Haha I will wet the bed until I'm 12 because I NEVER WAKE UP."

 

Most kids are in between those two extremes of light / hard sleep, like my first. However my second was much closer to the "I will make you a living zombie."

 

And no--no antibiotics, exclusively breastfed for six months (maybe 5.5 because she was grabby), I ate all organic meat and very little, I drink very little milk and eat only yoghurt and cheese for dairy, I tried elimination diets (just made me skinny as heck), it was awful before vaccines and gradually improved over the years as we got more and more vaccines so they weren't a cause, don't even go there. I night-weaned at six months because I wanted to improve her sleep. We did not co-sleep after two-weeks (forgive me, I could not let a two-week old really sleep alone) and I even had her nap in the bassinet from day one, just to avoid the nipple-bink problems.

 

I tried to give her a pacifier many, many times. I did what the books say, what grandma said.

 

She's just a light sleeper and so am I. It was hard. My heart goes out to you.

I don't think she is a light sleeper. My second, yes definitely a light sleeper. He'd be asleep upstairs and we'd open a bag of chips downstairs and he'd start screaming. But she seems to sleep just find with all kinds of brother noise going on, doesn't even flinch if I get in the shower while she is asleep, etc.

 

I've read No Cry (and a few others) and I've been trying the techniques but not really seeing any improvements. I'll wait her out, I'm just hoping to maybe stumble upon something that works. I'm not tired at all since once I go to bed she sleeps all night, pretty much in her own space, feeds quickly at 4:30/5 and then sleeps until 6:30/7. It is just the evenings that I can't seem to figure out.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:   No good suggestions but a lot of sympathy.

 

My first was a truly lousy sleeper.  Like 20 minute cat nap and up for hours and hours.  She didn't really sleep through the night until she was 3 1/2 years old.  The ONLY way she would sleep more than 20 minutes as an infant was if I put her on top of our dryer and ran it.  I had her braced with towels and blankets and put a little light up mellow fish thing near her that played gentle music.  She would watch the fish move slowly around, listen to the music and finally go to sleep.  That way she was at least sleeping for a couple of hours.  

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't leave her there unattended so I just did a lot of laundry.  I got almost no sleep myself.  I don't recommend the practice.  I was so sleep deprived there were a couple of times I quite literally forgot who I was or who the baby was.  I thought I was back in High School and I was babysitting.  

 

Good luck, OP.  This too shall pass.  It just may take a while.  Glad you are at least getting some sleep even if you are struggling with time for the other kids.  :grouphug:

 

 

[zoobie]

Preferring to sleep upright and comfort nursing are symptoms of reflux.

[justme824]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:   No good suggestions but a lot of sympathy.

 

My first was a truly lousy sleeper.  Like 20 minute cat nap and up for hours and hours.  She didn't really sleep through the night until she was 3 1/2 years old.  The ONLY way she would sleep more than 20 minutes as an infant was if I put her on top of our dryer and ran it.  I had her braced with towels and blankets and put a little light up mellow fish thing near her that played gentle music.  She would watch the fish move slowly around, listen to the music and finally go to sleep.  That way she was at least sleeping for a couple of hours.  

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't leave her there unattended so I just did a lot of laundry.  I got almost no sleep myself.  I don't recommend the practice.  I was so sleep deprived there were a couple of times I quite literally forgot who I was or who the baby was.  I thought I was back in High School and I was babysitting.  

 

Good luck, OP.  This too shall pass.  It just may take a while.  Glad you are at least getting some sleep even if you are struggling with time for the other kids.  :grouphug:

Thank you.

 

My second had sleep issues way worse than this one. He didn't sleep through until 3 1/2 years old, which was just a few months ago. My husband and I were both walking zombies with him. Right now I'm very thankful I at least get enough sleep, even if my evenings are long and rough.

[Tsuga]

I don't think she is a light sleeper. My second, yes definitely a light sleeper. He'd be asleep upstairs and we'd open a bag of chips downstairs and he'd start screaming. But she seems to sleep just find with all kinds of brother noise going on, doesn't even flinch if I get in the shower while she is asleep, etc.

 

I've read No Cry (and a few others) and I've been trying the techniques but not really seeing any improvements. I'll wait her out, I'm just hoping to maybe stumble upon something that works. I'm not tired at all since once I go to bed she sleeps all night, pretty much in her own space, feeds quickly at 4:30/5 and then sleeps until 6:30/7. It is just the evenings that I can't seem to figure out.

 

To be completely frank, if you just have to nurse all night and then she sleeps again from 11 to 4:30 and then again until 7... I'm jealous. That sounds okay. That was my first.

 

I night-weaned the at around 2 years and as soon as that happened, she STTN. I'll bet it would have happened earlier had I night-weaned her earlier. Not recommending night weaning here--do it when it works for you--but it might be what she needs to STTN.

 

Best of luck.