In Need of a Spelling Manual

[SnMomof7]

I spell well for the most part, but do not understand why I am able I do so. As a result, I find myself struggling to help my children correct their spelling (whether in their formal curriculum or on their written work) as they encounter more difficult words.

 

Teaching phonics has equipped me with several simple rules I can now use, but I would like to have more available to me.

 

Ideally, I would like to purchase a reference work that would help me explain the relevant rule to a child when they mis-spell a word. Instead of more word copying, I'd like to also be able I tackle the root of the spelling error.

 

I see several that are available, but would appreciate first-hand experiences from other homeschoolers.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've got How To Teach Spelling.  It's great. It does everything you're looking for, as well as giving you lists of words, phrases, and sentences for spelling dictation to work on the specific rule.  There are workbooks that go with it, but really, this book all by itself would let you teach spelling, from soup to nuts, to any aged kid.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Spelling-Laura-Toby-Rudginsky/dp/0838818471

 

[ElizabethB]

The ABCs and All Their Tricks, a book based on the Hanna Study of the most common 17,000 English words. I have percentages based on the same study here:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

[AngelBee]

Following

[ElizabethB]

You could also watch through my 2 hours worth of spelling lessons and print out and use for reference the linked documents.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellinglessonsl.html

[LivingHope]

The Logic of English is a good reference.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1936706210/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1429292637&sr=8-1&keywords=the+logic+of+english&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&dpPl=1&dpID=51g-Uhc1WOL&ref=plSrch

[bttrflyvld]

The natural speller book has words broke down by rules. That might help.

[bttrflyvld]

The natural speller book has words broke down by rules. That might help.

[bttrflyvld]

The natural speller book has words broke down by rules. That might help.

[Hunter]

ONE book–I wish. I own all the above books listed, and more, and still don't feel like it's all covered.  :willy_nilly:  :banghead:

 

Help Your Kids with Language Arts has some seriously good stuff in it.

http://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Kids-Language-Arts/dp/1465408495

 

Fry's Phonics Charts are good if you are trying to match phonograms to dictionary respellings. You can purchase this at Currclick or Amazon, but google has the best large sample. I can't remember if you are one of the people that owns SOW. These charts are better than the phonics pages in SOW, if you are doing the advanced phonics lesson.

http://books.google.com/books?id=bPKVJGU7c00C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Hunter]

The natural speller book has words broke down by rules. That might help.

 

This is the best book for making your own LLATL like spelling lists based off of copywork.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Natural Speller here, too.

[Sahamamama]

ONE book–I wish. I own all the above books listed, and more, and still don't feel like it's all covered.  :willy_nilly:  :banghead:

 

Help Your Kids with Language Arts has some seriously good stuff in it.

http://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Kids-Language-Arts/dp/1465408495

 

Fry's Phonics Charts are good if you are trying to match phonograms to dictionary respellings. You can purchase this at Currclick or Amazon, but google has the best large sample. I can't remember if you are one of the people that owns SOW. These charts are better than the phonics pages in SOW, if you are doing the advanced phonics lesson.

http://books.google.com/books?id=bPKVJGU7c00C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Hunter, I see this is DK. I don't have time to check thoroughly tonight, so I was just wondering if you know if the book teaches British punctuation & mechanics, or American rules? Thanks! I'm going to bookmark this one, it looks good from what I have time to see now.

 

 

Edit: I found it on the copyright page. It's the first American edition. ;) Yeah!

[ElizabethB]

I own almost all the things mentioned and the actual 1,000+ page Hanna study!

 

In order of book usefulness that I actually use, I like:

 

ABCs and All Their Tricks

Hanna Study

Spelling Plus (Most common 1,000 words by pattern and rule, fair # of rules)

Natural Speller (use for lists, has very few rules)

HTTS

 

I made my rules from these and a ton of old reference books, any rule I use on my rule list and my phonics and spelling videos is from the public domain, from books before 1923 or the Hanna Study, which is paid for by goverment $ and is in the public domain because of the funding source. I actually don't think I took any rules from Hanna, though, just percentages for my charts.

[SnMomof7]

Thanks for the helpful recommendations! I will definitely watch your videos, Elizabeth. I will

Share them with my oldest DD who never learned phonetic markings (I only learned them through CLE phonics).

 

Has anyone used Sound Spelling? It appears from the samples that they help you isolate the phoneme and choose a practice list based in the error. In the sample it seems a bit convoluted on paper, but not too complicated in practice if that makes sense?

[Hunter]

Thanks for the helpful recommendations! I will definitely watch your videos, Elizabeth. I will

Share them with my oldest DD who never learned phonetic markings (I only learned them through CLE phonics).

 

Has anyone used Sound Spelling? It appears from the samples that they help you isolate the phoneme and choose a practice list based in the error. In the sample it seems a bit convoluted on paper, but not too complicated in practice if that makes sense?

 

I have that, too.  :leaving: A couple of the pages are not printed correctly in my copy. It's OOP.

 

It's very similar to Tricks of the Trade which is still in print and available as an eBook from the publisher of LLATL.

[SnMomof7]

CBD has it ;).

 

For what it's worth, I actually never bought SOW, though I deeply considered it many times :).

[Hunter]

CBD has it ;).

 

For what it's worth, I actually never bought SOW, though I deeply considered it many times :).

 

I didn't know it was in print. I called the publisher a couple years back to ask which dictionary I should use with it, and they told me they were not supporting the curriculum any longer and that it was OOP.  :confused1:

 

I knew I had you connected to SOW, somehow.

[Hunter]

It really drives me crazy that I cannot narrow this down for myself and for my suggestions to others. I teach better using less, even if I cover less; at least what gets done gets done. I'm not sure where or how to narrow down.

 

So, if someone needs some of what I have, I'll just give them whatever I have that they want, if I can afford the shipping. I'm just not attached to any of these books more than the others and I know I have too many. I'm not doing more having more.

 

I know that some books are better when COMBINED with other things the instructor is using. Like the Fry charts are good for SOW.

 

Seriously the DK Help Your Kids with Language Arts EXPLAINS a lot, if you need explanation more than weekly open-and-go lessons. You might be able to look at a copy at your closest Barnes and Noble, and your library is likely to purchase a copy if you ask them.

 

Phonics fascinates me. I'm thankful I have had the opportunity to wallow a bit in books about phonics for MY sake. I've reached the point that the number of books I have might be taking be backwards instead of forwards in my level of TEACHING, though.

 

I haven't purged as much in spelling/phonics as the other subjects. I have seen the reward of a massive purge in the other subjects. I have less, but am not accomplishing less. I have just scratched the surface of purging with spelling/phonics.

 

Reading a bit of Ella Frances Lynch, in a round about way and not because of anything she said explicitly, helped me get comfortable with the KJV instead of a more modern version as the base of language arts. I'm learning to use SOW differently than it was written: Bible as a textbook instead of discipleship, and more explicit teaching instead of research, and using the generic templates as a buffet to sample rather than a crossword puzzle to complete.

 

If I go with the KJV and SOW the way that I am planning, that is one way for me to narrow down my spelling/phonics resources. Some will get narrowed down just because someone else wants something I have and I can afford shipping that week. :lol:

 

No matter what, for better and worse, some of these books just have to go. I don't even really care which ones, at this point. This is gotten as bad as having too many boyfriends and deciding it's time to settle down and be monogamous. With or without books, I'm only going to accomplish so much in my teaching. Adam had his weeds, We have our weedy curriculum. More books is just more weeds. I'm being strangled by weeds.

 

[Hunter]

Hunter, I see this is DK. I don't have time to check thoroughly tonight, so I was just wondering if you know if the book teaches British punctuation & mechanics, or American rules? Thanks! I'm going to bookmark this one, it looks good from what I have time to see now.

 

 

Edit: I found it on the copyright page. It's the first American edition. ;) Yeah!

 

There are 4 pages in DK Help Your Kids with Language Arts devoted to comparing British and American spelling. That is really nice for those of use who have adopted a mishmash of both, with little understand of what has happened.

[SnMomof7]

I hear you on the curriculum overload. I'm still slowly purging all sorts of things I have held onto....just in case. As image I feel increasingly in tune with Solomon on the making of many books.

 

Not to derail things, but have you seen this up and coming offering? http://allinonehomeschool.com/genesis-curriculum/

It reminds me strongly of SOW, but more open and go. I still can't see us using it for various reasons :).

[SnMomof7]

I didn't know it was in print. I called the publisher a couple years back to ask which dictionary I should use with it, and they told me they were not supporting the curriculum any longer and that it was OOP. :confused1:

 

I knew I had you connected to SOW, somehow.

It may still be OOP, perhaps CBD just bought copies a while ago and still has it kicking around.

[Hunter]

I'm so frustrated that I cannot give you a book suggestion. I've read so many books. I know what is in the books. I think I have some idea of YOU and YOUR curriculum. But I'm at a blank. I'm fighting off something the past few days and really really feeling some significant brain fog that is FRUSTRATING me, but still...I'm just at a blank, that goes beyond my fog. I think I've reached something like depression about phonics and spelling.

 

Yes, I feel like Solomon writing in Ecclesiastes about books. I'm really at that place right now. And I think I know exactly which scriptures you are referrring to.

 

Maybe another day I will have a clearer head. I just ruined cooking a frozen pizza. I cooked it on the cardboard and burned it. I feel too sick to eat it, but was just trying to have something ready if I did decide I could eat. Now if I want to eat I actually have to go shopping. UGH! I'm clicking off.

[SnMomof7]

Well, I basically want to be able to go over any words a child has spelled incorrectly, isolate the problem phonogram/s, find a rule to explain where things went wrong, and perhaps look at some words with similar spelling patterns. All of that instead of just copying the word correctly x many times. Does that make sense?

[Hunter]

Oh, that makes perfect sense. The problem is finding a book that will allow you to do that. We have put men on the moon–at least MOST us believe that  :lol: –but we don't seem to have managed to get all of basic phonics in a single book.

 

My head cleared later on last night. I was too muddled to know what was wrong, so couldn't fix it or even know what was wrong. I had a migraine, and my brain was dissociating to get away from the pain. I do that a lot, but the repetition doesn't seem to clue me in to what is happening as it's happening. it takes an onlooker who knows me to ask, "Do you have a headache?" Sigh! 

 

Your best bet might be The ABC's and all their Tricks and the Phonics Made Plain flashcards and poster to act as a sort of cheat sheet to the book. The poster has some rules, but not as many as some other programs.

 

WRTR 5 and 6 have an alphabetical index to the spelling list, so you can look up words in the spelling list and see them marked and the spelling rules listed, but that will not give you a similar list of words. SWR's Alpha List is an alphabetical list with words marked and rules listed; again no list of similar words.

 

Most phonics programs won't let you see a backwards list of the phonograms listed by sound, instead of all the sounds for each phonogram. But for SPELLING that is helpful. The DK book has really good lists of the phonograms grouped for spelling.

 

Fry and Don Potter  are the only ones that try and list things to match a modern dictionary.

 

And then once you start collecting all this, the programs contradict each other. They are minor contradictions, but they are enough to totally confuse a student unless YOU choose ONE of the systems as the default system that you teach the student and then you translate all the other sources into the one you are teaching.

[kirstenhill]

This isn't a perfect solution, but a tool I am using for a similar purpose is "The Alpha List" by Wanda Sensei. I got my copy at Rainbow Resource. It is in alphabetical order, and the words are divided/marked by phonogram. It gives a few notes about each word and a note as to which rule applies. It just gives a number for each rule, and you refer to a chart in the back of the book to see which rule that is. I am an LoE person myself, so I use it on words I am not sure about to give me a clue in the right direction on words I am not sure how to mark (my older kids are going through the Susan c. Anthony spelling resources this year). So I still refer to the LoE references as well for final marking/rules since they are not all the same as SWR.

 

I put a suggestion in to the staff at LOE that they should produce a similar product keyed to their rules and phonograms, and they seemed to think it was a good idea...so I am hoping someday they do that.

 

I have ABCs and All Their Tricks, but I find it difficult to use in the method you are looking for, because there is no alphabetical index (at least in the edition I own), and it is hard to know on more complex words if they are in the book at all or which phonogram they would be listed under if there is more than one multi letter phonogram in the word.

 

ETA: Just read Hunter's comment and realized she mentioned the same book. I just wanted to add that if I wanted a list of words with a similar phonogram, I would personally check out the free "spelling lists by phonogram" on the LoE website. I guess If it was a rule they were having trouble with that might not help you.

[Hunter]

The only way to do this is to look up the word in Alpha List or WRTR, identify the phonograms, hope that Phonics Made Plain uses the same phonogram, find the phonogram card, and then find the page numbers for ABC's listed on the phonogram card, and hopefully there is a usable list.

 

For rules, those would be listed in the Alpha-list/WRTR.

 

For dictionary respellings, you would now need the Fry charts, and again hope the phonograms matched.

 

If you wanted a list of the other phonograms that make the same sound, you would need the DK book.

 

:willy_nilly:  :banghead:

 

If you study all this and remember it all, then it would cut down on the needed resources and time spent looking things up. But then you have all the other parts of LA to teach, never mind other subjects, and a HOME to keep and PEOPLE to interact with. Sometimes it really isn't worth it.

 

Why don't we have a book? Good question. Is this our weeds? Is it preordained that we won't have such a thing? Or has it just not been written, yet?

[SnMomof7]

Thanks so much. English makes me crazy sometimes. :/

 

I was previously unaware of the Alpha List. It might be workable in a simplified way.

[SnMomof7]

Glad you are feeling better, Hunter! This should really be easier than it appears to be!

[SnMomof7]

But on second (or third...) thought, how many words does the ABCs cover? Alpha has 2300.

[Micron4]

What is SOW? (Apologies if it has already been answered) 😀

[SnMomof7]

Student of the Word

[kirstenhill]

But on second (or third...) thought, how many words does the ABCs cover? Alpha has 2300.

That's a good question. I can't find anywhere in my copy a figure for the number of words. It's not easy to estimate either since some pages have many words while other pages have just a few.

[ElizabethB]

That's a good question. I can't find anywhere in my copy a figure for the number of words. It's not easy to estimate either since some pages have many words while other pages have just a few.

The original Hanna study has 17,000.

 

The ABCs took each sound and made a representitive number or easy, medium, and hard words. For rare sound/spelling correspondences, it listed all the words.

 

So, the number is kind of irrelevant--for each type, they cover all levels and also list some common exceptions. If you learned them all, you would know all the most common sound spelling patterns and exceptions of the most common 17,000 words in English, which most likely covers somewhere around 95 to 99 percent of any running text, maybe even 99+ percent. The most common 1,000 words are 90% of any running text.

 

One reason I like Spelling Plus is its sorting and treatment of the most common 1,000 words by rule and pattern.

[SnMomof7]

I really need to pray for wisdom...or I might end up drastically overbuying!

 

I also found this reference chart that looks awesome and handy:

https://store.logicofenglish.com/supplements/phonogram-spelling-rule-quick-ref

[alisoncooks]

I really need to pray for wisdom...orni might end up drastically overbuying!

 

I also found this reference chart that looks awesome and handy:

https://store.logicofenglish.com/supplements/phonogram-spelling-rule-quick-ref

 

Well, I quite like the look of that!  Between that, and maybe the CLE grammar reference chart -- I'm calling it good! ;)

[SnMomof7]

I might too :). I love my CLE reference charts!

[kirstenhill]

I really need to pray for wisdom...orni might end up drastically overbuying!

 

I also found this reference chart that looks awesome and handy:

https://store.logicofenglish.com/supplements/phonogram-spelling-rule-quick-ref

I big-puffy-heart that reference chart. That, plus the alpha-list, plus Spelling Plus/Dictation Resource book is my trifecta of spelling this year. :-) Or maybe that's really a quadfecta since its four books (I think of the two Susan c. Anthony books as kind of one item together).

 

Now I just need to figure out what to do with DD next year. She'll start the year reviewing/practicing words she missed this year on spelling tests, but she will get thru all the spelling plus lists and definitely still needs more spelling practice. I have plenty of sources of spelling lists, I think I just need to narrow down which one to use!

[alisoncooks]

Help Your Kids with Language Arts has some seriously good stuff in it.

http://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Kids-Language-Arts/dp/1465408495

 

 

 

I really like the look of this one, too!  My Language Arts eduation was woefully neglected in our rural public school.

Thanks for starting this thread -- I'll definitely be picking up a few of these. :)

[Hunter]

I really need to pray for wisdom...or I might end up drastically overbuying!

 

 

Yup! It's easy to do. I've done it for sure. Even if I consider phonics a hobby, I have still overbought even for that.

[ElizabethB]

Yup! It's easy to do. I've done it for sure. Even if I consider phonics a hobby, I have still overbought even for that.

i had too much curriculum before I even started homeschooling!

 

I have 20+ phonics and spelling books now, I had at least a dozen just from tutoring when I started homeschooling.

 

And, of course, the complete Hanna study, all 17K words and 1,000+ pages...

[SnMomof7]

Hunter, that DK LA book...

 

I also need help remediation my grammar. I'm having a bit if a time with it. I'm wondering if I could kill multiple birds with that DK book. How comprehensive would you say it is? It's hard I get a feel for the contents.

 

I do have the CLE Handbook but it is...dense :).

[Hunter]

The DK books covers some heavy stuff, but makes it look less intimidating with it's colorful 2 pages spreads. The DK book is an excellent book, but like all books seems to fail at being THE one and only book someone would need. 

 

Jennifer, if you were suddenly not homeschooling, is there a topic that you would want to study for YOURSELF?  For a self-study topic, I would make sure to pick a topic YOU are interested in and only ONE and at the absolute most two for the sake of a little variety, but make sure to firmly establish ONE as your main focus.

 

If phonics or grammar fascinates you, then do work on it. If not, you are building a strong lattice right now that WILL hold up the building. You are doing enough. Don't shake that very serviceable lattice, hoping to do "better".

 

For grammar I personally am able to let some of that go, now. We do have a few modern mostly overlapping systems that ARE highly expected to be slavishly followed, but there are fashion trends that are also expected to be slavishly followed. The fact that it was so hard to find public domain texts and a stable Bible translation that followed the modern trends was frustrating me to no ends, but now it's done the opposite. I see how fleeting that is, and how I am sacrificing the best to TRY and accomplish trends. I am willing to break fashion trends every day, humping around the city in my hiking boots and carrying a big backpack full of library books and groceries. I need to have that same confidence about my semi-colons vs colons and em dashes.

 

But phonics, the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, and out-of-door geography fascinate me. I will continue to study these topics as hobbies beyond what I need to know to tutor a lattice strong enough to hold a student's future. I can't know or do it all. And the more I learn, the more I want to shove down the throats of uninterested and not yet developed students. Most of it does NOT make me a better tutor. And I think it's making me even more eccentric, if that's possible.

 

:grouphug: whatever you do!

[SnMomof7]

Well. They don't really fascinate me :). My children are learning them though, so it needs to be done. Like the diapers, oh, the diapers. I don't really enjoy those either ;).

 

I'm really fascinated with integrating biblical geography with the text, Hebrew, Latin, and interactive Bible study.

 

I do continue to memorize scripture, though a bit sporadically, which is the most important thing for me. Hebrew and Latin are definitely on hold. I'm just so happy that CLE integrates geography and map work so nicely into their Bible course, particularly in the 500s and 600s, for my children.

 

I did buy the ABCs last night. I also have Our

Mother Tongue in my cart at CBD. The price is right and I hope it works.