Very rarely do I consider changing a political position ...

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Wouldn't it be great if you could pick up the morning paper and get a run down of what was voted on and who in your state voted what - and how much it costs?

 

Even just for towns- I am sure a lot of people in my town would be shocked at how much is spent for certain items. We get coverage for the biggies, but nada on the day to day stuff.

 

But- until the American people are smart enough to play the game- Washington is going to play it on their own.

 

They teach kids in schools "how a bill becomes a law" but they don't teach how it REALLY happens.

[Mom to Aly]

I have always found his story amazing; as well as his integrity during that time. There is just one thing that worries me that may be related to that, and it is his temper. Even while running for president, he has not been able to control his explosive temper at times, in front of, and with, reporters. I think a president should be in better control. It makes me wonder if there are... issues there. And that seriously frightens me.

[SapphireStitch]

I'm surprised that no one on this board, with all of us who teach our kids logic, has pointed out the logical fallacy of the Republican's appeal on McCain. This is clearly an appeal ad misericordium--vote for McCain because he suffered so much. I admire his courage and service, but does not counter his objectionable political beliefs, his poorly thought out policies (when they exist at all), or the continuation of the disaster his party has wreaked on this country in the last 8 years.

 

Someone once said that all Rudi Giuliani has to say is "a noun, a verb, and 9/11". It seems all the Republican party has to say is a noun, a verb, and McCain was a POW. And, where is the outcry about the smarmy ridicule that characterized every speech last nite? And the utter lack of discussion of any policy proposals whatsoever? The substance of the Republican speeches so far makes the Democrats look like the Encyclopedia Britannica. Or are there different rules when it's Republicans doing it?

Danielle

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Wish I'd had a TV brick to fling every time Guiliani et al said "community organizer" and chuckled about it.

 

I felt the speakers last night were playing on emotions by repeatedly mentioning McCains POW suffering, but I thought at the time that most viewers would notice the hyperbole and filter for it. Then I got a phone call from an elderly neighbor this morning, a person who is normally quite politically savvy. In essence this neighbor said Obama is not to be trusted, but you can believe everything McCain says because he was tortured. Frustrating!!

 

I'm registered as "unaffiliated" by the way, and have not decided 100% on who to vote for.

[SapphireStitch]

I have always found his story amazing; as well as his integrity during that time. There is just one thing that worries me that may be related to that, and it is his temper. Even while running for president, he has not been able to control his explosive temper at times, in front of, and with, reporters. I think a president should be in better control. It makes me wonder if there are... issues there. And that seriously frightens me.

 

:iagree: with this, too. Dealing with reporters could be extremely frustrating, but it's some a head of state has to be prepared to do.

[LG Gone Wild]

. . . saying what your position on torture used to be?

 

 

I didn't think water boarding was torture the way I view thumbscrews, electric shocks, beatings and so forth. Plus, I don't like the idea of hampering our interrogators. Anyway, like I said, I didn't truly have a strong opinion on it like I do on taxes.

[Mom to Aly]

I didn't think water boarding was torture the way I view thumbscrews, electric shocks, beatings and so forth. Plus, I don't like the idea of hampering our interrogators. Anyway, like I said, I didn't truly have a strong opinion on it like I do on taxes.

 

 

I think water boarding is atrocious, and it can actually cause a phenomenon known as "dry drowning" which results in death, as well as a heart attack. It is considered one of the worst forms of torture, from what I've read.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Yes' date=' and I also thought they were taught to give up less important info when they DID talk, or like McCain, give them the Green bay packers offensive line. My dh is ex-Air Force.[/quote']

 

Or the Pittsburgh Steelers line, depending on who you ask.

 

In his first sit-down interview with KDKA Political Editor Jon Delano, U.S. Sen. John McCain recounted how he would recite the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive line-up to his North Vietnamese captors.

 

McCain, the Republican candidate for president, says he naturally thinks of the football team whenever he thinks of Pittsburgh.

 

"The Steelers really made a huge impression on me -- particularly in their early years."

 

In fact, McCain explains how the team helped him during his time in a POW camp...

[Jenny in Atl]

Wouldn't it be great if you could pick up the morning paper and get a run down of what was voted on and who in your state voted what - and how much it costs?

 

Even just for towns- I am sure a lot of people in my town would be shocked at how much is spent for certain items. We get coverage for the biggies, but nada on the day to day stuff.

 

But- until the American people are smart enough to play the game- Washington is going to play it on their own.

 

They teach kids in schools "how a bill becomes a law" but they don't teach how it REALLY happens.

 

Government schools don't teach kids a lot... they don't want a smart independent thinking populous, because then they could not get away with electing and keeping so many in office who have nothing but power and job security as their 1# issue. No matter the party, they love an uneducated electorate. :tongue_smilie:

[Jugglin'5]

Or the Pittsburgh Steelers line, depending on who you ask.

 

Lie or senior moment? Neither is particularly comforting is it? According to the McCain campaign, it was a senior moment (although they obviously didn't use that terminology:lol:), and it was the Packers.

[Laura in VA]

My husband as two combat tours under his belt. He's voting for the first time *ever* in this election because he thinks it is such an important election (usually he says "why would you play a game in which the outcome was already decided?") and he's voting for Obama.

 

Most soldiers are against torture because it rarely gives information you can rely on as true and it takes away our moral standing in the world.

 

My husband is a Marine and he is voting for McCain. :)

[Confuzzled]

Both my sons who are in the military, one deployed, are voting for McCain. :)

 

Kris

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

My husband as two combat tours under his belt. He's voting for the first time *ever* in this election because he thinks it is such an important election (usually he says "why would you play a game in which the outcome was already decided?") and he's voting for Obama.

 

Most soldiers are against torture because it rarely gives information you can rely on as true and it takes away our moral standing in the world.

 

My dh is retired Army and is not almost certainly voting for McCain/Palin (which frankly shocks me because of his voting history). But he isn't sure whether or not he is voting Obama/Biden.

[Storm Bay]

Personally, I don't care for either Obama or McCain, but I was impressed with his character as a POW. I missed the speech in question, but did listen to Palin speak since I knew nothing about her, and she referred to a different POW who was in the audience. Every day he watched McCain get dragged away for torture, and everyday he watched him being dragged back and McCain shot him a grin and a thumbs up. Is this story true? How can I know? But if he'd been a horrid jerk, why would his prison mates be supporting him? Just a question. But I would never vote for someone or believe someone just because they suffered, but to get through all that so much in tact is impressive.

 

I did think that Palin is a fabulous speaker, whether or not I or anyone else agrees with her, and have to say that I'm impressed that she has an 80 percent approval rating in her home state. I also like the fact that she hasn't been in politics forever, but apparently (still have to check on the facts) has actually done something for her state. Too much political experience can be as bad or worse than none; I'm more impressed with what they actually have done and their character.

 

I still hate this election since Obama and McCain are the same on some Very Important Issues, but now it's time to review other issues, if they actually have them, and their VP choices. Once, just once, I'd like to vote in a federal election for someone I respect and who I mostly agree with.

[lovemyboys]

Personally, I don't care for either Obama or McCain, but I was impressed with his character as a POW. I missed the speech in question, but did listen to Palin speak since I knew nothing about her, and she referred to a different POW who was in the audience. Every day he watched McCain get dragged away for torture, and everyday he watched him being dragged back and McCain shot him a grin and a thumbs up. Is this story true? How can I know? But if he'd been a horrid jerk, why would his prison mates be supporting him? Just a question. But I would never vote for someone or believe someone just because they suffered, but to get through all that so much in tact is impressive.

 

I did think that Palin is a fabulous speaker, whether or not I or anyone else agrees with her, and have to say that I'm impressed that she has an 80 percent approval rating in her home state.

 

When his captors became aware that McCain comes from a military family (his father and grandfather were both admirals), they offered to let him go free which they would then use as propaganda with the world. There was a saying that the North Vietnamese wouldn't win the war on the ground, they would win it on the streets of our cities...so the propaganda was important.

 

He declined to be set free unless those who had been there longer were released first. He knew that they would use the situation as political propaganda. They warned him he would suffer the consequences of his decision...and he did. Because he didn't do what they wanted. It must have been horrific.

 

I don't know about the thumbs up, but I have heard before that he managed to smile or look at his fellow prisoners while he was passing them. They tried to keep their spirits up together.

 

Remember, these were the days when people like Jane Fonda were supporting the North Vietnamese. POWs have written that when she visited the Hanoi Hilton (POW camp), one of them handed her a slip of paper with a note on it when she greeted the POWs. She took it and later laughingly handed it to the head of the camp. You can imagine how pleasant it was for that person after Jane and the press tour were gone. So much for trusting a fellow American. :glare:

 

That's one of the things that's impressive in McCain's support, the number of honorable people who stand up and for him.