AP class vs. the actual class at a college...

[Heather in VA]

It's funny now that my oldest has been in college a few years and my next high schooler is coming through there are so many more college options for younger high schoolers than just a few years ago. So now I'm having trouble deciding how to approach this. I look at doing AP Government (for example) and then I wonder why we would do that when she could just take American Government from an regionally accredited college (she's been accepted to take any courses she'd like). Every time I think about an AP course I realize I could just have her take the actual college class. Is there a drawback to this from a college perspective down the road when she applies to go somewhere full time after graduation? She's taken three courses so far and gotten A's in all of them (she's a sophomore) so she's definitely ready for the work. It seems like taking the course with guaranteed credit would be better than dealing with tailoring for the AP exam and hope for credit. Will a potential college have a  problem with several of her credits each year being actual college classes? 

[Mom22ns]

We did some of both.

 

The local college offered classes not available by AP. It also offered relatively easy (and guaranteed) credits. We mixed in AP courses when we felt the quality would be higher than what we could get from the local State U or CC.

 

I think which one will be looked upon more favorably by the destination college depends a lot on the quality of your local college. Here, I have multiple choices, but not impressive quality, so AP looks better on the transcripts. 

[regentrude]

DD had 30+ college credits for high school and no APs. She got accepted into several schools. some extremely selective. No problem.

We chose not to go the AP route because she loves classrooms and live teachers and does not do well with high stakes single shot tests.

 

I see several additional advantages of college courses over AP: the homeschooled student demonstrates that she can function in a live classrooom, and the instructors can be potential sources of letters of recommendation.

[Melissa B]

It's funny now that my oldest has been in college a few years and my next high schooler is coming through there are so many more college options for younger high schoolers than just a few years ago. So now I'm having trouble deciding how to approach this. I look at doing AP Government (for example) and then I wonder why we would do that when she could just take American Government from an regionally accredited college (she's been accepted to take any courses she'd like). Every time I think about an AP course I realize I could just have her take the actual college class. Is there a drawback to this from a college perspective down the road when she applies to go somewhere full time after graduation? She's taken three courses so far and gotten A's in all of them (she's a sophomore) so she's definitely ready for the work. It seems like taking the course with guaranteed credit would be better than dealing with tailoring for the AP exam and hope for credit. Will a potential college have a  problem with several of her credits each year being actual college classes? 

 

I don't know that I would necessarily consider it a downside, but my dd (a junior this year) is running into the issue that she must declare a major at the same time as she applies to colleges for admissions because of the number of college credits she has earned. She will still enter as a freshman, but her credit count does require her to also submit a major application as well. She is sending in applications in six months and must choose her major(s) by that time.

[Lawyer&Mom]

AP courses can be more rigorous than their college equivalents. You might want to do a few just to show that she can.

[quark]

For DS, an AP class would mean fully online coursework while he very much prefers an IRL class in most cases. Ditto for science labs...IRL lab is so much more worthwhile for him vs online labs/ labs at home with clueless mom.

[G5052]

My approach has been based on logistics and course specifics.

 

We did AP Latin online from home because the local college doesn't offer it.

 

We did the intro IT class at the college because I it was a good summer choice for us and it's a good "tool" class for the first dual enrollment class.

 

We did college Spanish because I know the teacher and even online, it was a win-win. I'm far less fluent than I used to be.

 

Everything else is online AP's.  I'd rather go with an online AP class at home versus hauling them to the college multiple times a week. I also want them to experience a class of motivated students, which is not something they get at the community college in the early classes.

[Kareni]

My daughter also did a mix of AP and college classes.  Her choices were dictated by availability and interest.  For example, she took AP Latin due to interest and went on to major in that subject in college.  She also took a number of Geology classes at the local community college and went on to earn a minor in that subject in college.  (There is no AP exam offered in Geology.)

 

My daughter subsequently attended a selective liberal arts college that accepted no prior college classes for credit.  This was not an issue for us as we did not have her take those classes with the expectation of earning future college credit; instead, she took  those classes to enrich her high school experience. Her AP classes, however, did exempt her from some college requirements. 

 

Regards,

Kareni

[EndOfOrdinary]

When we went around to colleges Ds was interested in the response to this question was interesting. One (private LAC) favored DE over AP and suggested we take the AP only to help in the number of credits Ds could then opt out of towards a degree at the CC level. Neither AP or the CC classes were going to count for credit, but they could bump up his entry level courses to more advanced ones.

 

The other (State U) greatly favored AP tests to DE siting that they found the content more standardized than CC classes. The credits would count.

 

A third did not care one way or the other, but wanted merely to see a range of rigorous coursework completed with "excellence." If not with excellence then to express in a personal essay how work ethic and perseverance were gained through the experience. Transferring credits was more assured with AP scores if a completed AA degree was not obtained.

 

I think it comes down to the school and it is a shot in the dark until you know where fhe student is wanting to apply. Do what works best for your student, your schedule, and your wallet. When you know more about where the student is going to apply, then do what will work best for that situation.

[mathwonk]

My experience is probably outdated but I mention it for what it's worth.  My college classes (I was a math prof at a state university) were much more rigorous than any AP classes in calculus.  So the problem arose when a student took beginning calc as AP in high school, then took credit for it in college and skipped the first year class, and enrolled in my second year calc class.  They were just not ready for the higher level of rigor and abstraction, and the faster pace of work.

 

Still there is the difference between substance and perception.  Many people think highly of AP classes and thus high school students with a lot of AP credit look better to admissions officials.  It is after they get in the classroom that the professor is not so impressed.  Finally there is the accommodation effect.  I.e. gradually college classes have gotten easier because of poorly prepared AP students needing them easier, so my experience may be irrelevant today.

 

Still my recommendation always was, and remains, that a good student with AP calculus background should enroll in a beginning calculus class but one at the honors or super honors (Spivak) level, rather than a second year class at the non honors level.  That way they get a course they are ready for, and a better professor, and a class of like minded peers.  The drawback may be giving up the AP credit, but some schools still offer the credit under these conditions.  However AP courses, flawed as they are, have mostly won this war, and it is hard now to find the appropriately challenging first year super honors course I recommend.  Our school is unable to find enough students to offer it any longer, I was told.  I think it may still exist at MIT and Chicago.

[kiana]

However AP courses, flawed as they are, have mostly won this war, and it is hard now to find the appropriately challenging first year super honors course I recommend.  Our school is unable to find enough students to offer it any longer, I was told.  I think it may still exist at MIT and Chicago.

 

Yes. Ohio State has a course using Spivak as well. https://math.osu.edu/sites/math.osu.edu/files/courses/4181-4182H.pdf

Harvard's Math 55 is worth mentioning.

Wash Univ. St. Louis has one that uses Apostol. https://wumath.wustl.edu/freshmanseminar

University of Michigan at Ann Arbor has one that uses Spivak: http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/~kesmith/295.info2010.pdf

[mathwonk]

Thanks.  Of course, the math  55 course is for students who already have had a Spivak class, and apparently in high school (where!?!) , since Harvard no longer offers it.  One of our faculty had a son who took Harvard's math 55, but that was after taking super honors and even advanced graduate courses at our university while still in high school.

[Heather in VA]

Thanks everyone. It sounds like we are doing ok. She will take at least a couple of AP courses (Calculus being one) in addition to her college courses. She is taking those courses at an accredited 4 year college, not a community college. I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not. Our local community college is well respected but VERY expensive. So hopefully a variety will be just the ticket.

 

regertrude - I did have a question for you. When you put your transcript together did you have a full 7 credits or so per year in addition to all the college courses or did some semesters have less high school credits but made up for it because of the college classes? If she's taking multiple college courses at a time I don't want to then bury her in a huge load from me as well but I don't want her transcript to appear sparse. 

[regentrude]

regertrude - I did have a question for you. When you put your transcript together did you have a full 7 credits or so per year in addition to all the college courses or did some semesters have less high school credits but made up for it because of the college classes? If she's taking multiple college courses at a time I don't want to then bury her in a huge load from me as well but I don't want her transcript to appear sparse. 

 

Seven additional high school credits when she already has 4 or 5 credits through college courses would be an absurd work load. We do college courses instead, not on top of, high school coursework. Any subject she did at college, we would not teach at home that year.

 

I have listed all courses on the transcript and noted whether they were taken at home or at the university.

 

DD had 6.5 high school credits in 9th grade, 8 credits in 10th, and 8.5 credits each in 11th and 12th grades, respectively.

I gave only 1 credit total for the two semesters of a 3 hour algebra based college physics course she did in 9th, and then 1 credit for each semester of calc based physics, French and upper level literature classes.