displace Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I'm looking for something with more formal grammar and composition to teach. DS is gifted in language but has dyslexia and dysgraphia. Writing is a daily struggle limited to about 20 min per day but I'd like copy work to be useful. Usually I have him write some facts for memorization, sight word sentences, etc. I was thinking of grammar island and just plugging away with HWT sentences as I work. But it would be nice to have the curriculum all ready to go, which is maybe what FLL is? I'm confused and hope anyone can help. I wasn't sure if I should post in accelerated learner or struggling learner, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 My dyslexic son did well with MCT, which is more of a whole to parts approach than other programs I've seen. I would wait until your son is reading very well before using it, however. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 My 2nd child had ZERO retention with FLL because it's such an auditory curriculum. MCT is much more visual so he does much better with that. I also had him do WWE for copywork and narration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Have you seen the following thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/534095-anyone-watch-the-webinar-on-teaching-writing-to-dyslexics/ I recommend that you watch the webinar and take notes. Apply the methods in the webinar to whatever writing program that you select. Since you son comprehends well, have you heard of the books Suppose the Wolf were an Octopus? https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Suppose+the+Wolf+Were+an+Octopus/027372 I have seen these books recommended for gifted grammar stage kiddos. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You know, I think I never got around to watching that webinar Heather linked, so I'm glad she brought it up again! :) Displace, I can't remember, what is the age of your dc? In your OG training did they show you how to weave in grammar? I haven't done OG training, but in Barton she has a process of teaching word fluency and comprehension through phrases that is blessedly conducive to teaching grammar. (if you work it right, it basically gets you to the Shurley Q&A flows) Like the others, FLL was a total bust with ds. I mean maybe someday it will mean something to him, but he sure looked at me like I was speaking greek. Of course his comprehension overall is iffy for the single sentence level. So anyways, answering the Q&A flows of Barton should let us grow into the Q&A flows of Shurley. Shurley isn't exactly stealthy rocket grammar, but it's fine. It's spiral, with short, sweet lessons, even with some humor. It's what I used with my dd and it's similar to the approach we used in russian classes (I know, not exactly helpful, lol), so I am comfortable with it. I think I may have gotten a book of the MCT grammar years ago. Might be fine. I think in these early years our dyslexics (or at least mine) are just building the actual comprehension, so going to more abstract label is really rough. Like there might be a time/age when it becomes more obviously a good fit, and it might be that until then you'd be just as happy with the *conceptual* exploration, without the terms, without the labels, kwim? And that's what I'm saying Barton weaves (at least the way I read it and use it) into her lessons. If OG did it in bud form, maybe you'd like to milk it a bit? Maybe if you came across a Shurley gr 6 tm you could buy it (they'll often be cheap) and see how you do the Q&A flows? Or of course MCT. I'm just thinking if you pursue MCT maybe inquire the *age* when dyslexic kids are typically doing this successfully. Might be informative or let you off with feeling guilty. I'd rather have someone who REALLY GETS the concepts of grammar (subject, antecedents for pronouns, whether it's a direct or indirect object, etc.) but doesn't know any of the labels vs. someone who is bogged down in labels and whatnot every day. That concept stuff doesn't take us long to weave into our reading. Super bright kids don't need to do that every day (even if they are dyslexic) and they don't need to do it written. They just need to do a dab and do it engagingly, so the ideas start to click. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 My dyslexic son did well with MCT, which is more of a whole to parts approach than other programs I've seen. I would wait until your son is reading very well before using it, however. Whole to parts approach sounds good. Reading well... Still working on it but much improved! 👠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 My 2nd child had ZERO retention with FLL because it's such an auditory curriculum. MCT is much more visual so he does much better with that. I also had him do WWE for copywork and narration. Auditory strength is DS's strength so maybe? I still don't understand the difference between FLL and WWE. Eek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Can't you download samples of WWE and FLL to get a sense of what the programs are like? It has been forever since I considered those programs. Now I am off to look. Eta: ok, a link follows: http://peacehillpress.com/samples.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Wow, you are a real homeschooler now :) I am so glad it is working out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 We read MCT Sentence Island as a read aloud (me reading it)--and he seemed to get a lot out of that. Not so much the Grammar Island. My ds loved Commas are Our Friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynful Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Well, MCT bombed here for us. My son is very auditory and loves stories but he got nothing at all out of MCT. FLL, on the other hand, was great for him. He still hasn't forgotten the definition of a noun, adjective, adverb, etc. Ok, he can't really apply it well, but that's due to other issues. :) I personally like FLL better also, but I know alot love MCT. Good luck, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Well, MCT bombed here for us. My son is very auditory and loves stories but he got nothing at all out of MCT. FLL, on the other hand, was great for him. He still hasn't forgotten the definition of a noun, adjective, adverb, etc. Ok, he can't really apply it well, but that's due to other issues. :) I personally like FLL better also, but I know alot love MCT. Good luck, The bolded is the reason we loved MCT. Knowing definitions in grammar isn't really the point of studying grammar--MCT got to the point for both of my kids, after years of pseudo learning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 With FLL, we covered the definitions umpteen times and each day it was as if were brand-new information that DS had never before heard. [insert head-banging emoji here] But with MCT the information "clicked" and he was able to retain it. Thank goodness my oldest did well with FLL so that I got my money's worth out of the purchase price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Wow, you are a real homeschooler now :) I am so glad it is working out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, I'm glad too. 😄. It's of course a lot different than I thought it would be but we're both working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Have you seen the following thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/534095-anyone-watch-the-webinar-on-teaching-writing-to-dyslexics/ I recommend that you watch the webinar and take notes. Apply the methods in the webinar to whatever writing program that you select. Since you son comprehends well, have you heard of the books Suppose the Wolf were an Octopus? https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Suppose+the+Wolf+Were+an+Octopus/027372 I have seen these books recommended for gifted grammar stage kiddos. Thanks for that link. I'm always forgetting to watch dyslexic advantage videos. I saw quite a few at diagnosis for general info but there's a ton out there. Also thanks for the book rec. I always love great ways to discuss books. I weary of the typical questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 You know, I think I never got around to watching that webinar Heather linked, so I'm glad she brought it up again! :) Displace, I can't remember, what is the age of your dc? In your OG training did they show you how to weave in grammar? I haven't done OG training, but in Barton she has a process of teaching word fluency and comprehension through phrases that is blessedly conducive to teaching grammar. (if you work it right, it basically gets you to the Shurley Q&A flows) Like the others, FLL was a total bust with ds. I mean maybe someday it will mean something to him, but he sure looked at me like I was speaking greek. Of course his comprehension overall is iffy for the single sentence level. So anyways, answering the Q&A flows of Barton should let us grow into the Q&A flows of Shurley. Shurley isn't exactly stealthy rocket grammar, but it's fine. It's spiral, with short, sweet lessons, even with some humor. It's what I used with my dd and it's similar to the approach we used in russian classes (I know, not exactly helpful, lol), so I am comfortable with it. I think I may have gotten a book of the MCT grammar years ago. Might be fine. I think in these early years our dyslexics (or at least mine) are just building the actual comprehension, so going to more abstract label is really rough. Like there might be a time/age when it becomes more obviously a good fit, and it might be that until then you'd be just as happy with the *conceptual* exploration, without the terms, without the labels, kwim? And that's what I'm saying Barton weaves (at least the way I read it and use it) into her lessons. If OG did it in bud form, maybe you'd like to milk it a bit? Maybe if you came across a Shurley gr 6 tm you could buy it (they'll often be cheap) and see how you do the Q&A flows? Or of course MCT. I'm just thinking if you pursue MCT maybe inquire the *age* when dyslexic kids are typically doing this successfully. Might be informative or let you off with feeling guilty. I'd rather have someone who REALLY GETS the concepts of grammar (subject, antecedents for pronouns, whether it's a direct or indirect object, etc.) but doesn't know any of the labels vs. someone who is bogged down in labels and whatnot every day. That concept stuff doesn't take us long to weave into our reading. Super bright kids don't need to do that every day (even if they are dyslexic) and they don't need to do it written. They just need to do a dab and do it engagingly, so the ideas start to click. DS is 6. I'm following IMSE which is more reading/spelling/writing and dictation of sentences/spelling. And honestly we could probably spend even more time with sentence composition. I'm not sure what Shirley q and a is, but I'll look it up. ITA about conceptual understanding is important. Even speaking around the house there's an adult around DS who tends to just speak phrases. I have to drag out a spoken phrase into sentences to have adequate communication but in the meantime I say things about phrases, objects, verbs, etc. maybe MCT as a read aloud on a rotation basis would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Can't you download samples of WWE and FLL to get a sense of what the programs are like? It has been forever since I considered those programs. Now I am off to look. Eta: ok, a link follows: http://peacehillpress.com/samples.html . I didn't know I could, thanks! Both programs look good and quick but IDK how DS would like it or do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 We read MCT Sentence Island as a read aloud (me reading it)--and he seemed to get a lot out of that. Not so much the Grammar Island. My ds loved Commas are Our Friends. I may use MCT as a read aloud. DS loves stories! I'll look into commas are our friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Well, MCT bombed here for us. My son is very auditory and loves stories but he got nothing at all out of MCT. FLL, on the other hand, was great for him. He still hasn't forgotten the definition of a noun, adjective, adverb, etc. Ok, he can't really apply it well, but that's due to other issues. :) I personally like FLL better also, but I know alot love MCT. Good luck, Thanks! I'm a natural curriculum overachiever so I'll get both. Samples look good on the computer but implementation is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 So funny how different our kids are with what works! So grateful to have the choice to do what works. Speaking of grammar, please excuse my lack of proper grammar but I'm on my phone and I can't bother with articles or pronouns sometimes 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 DS is 6. I'm following IMSE which is more reading/spelling/writing and dictation of sentences/spelling. And honestly we could probably spend even more time with sentence composition. I'm not sure what Shirley q and a is, but I'll look it up. ITA about conceptual understanding is important. Even speaking around the house there's an adult around DS who tends to just speak phrases. I have to drag out a spoken phrase into sentences to have adequate communication but in the meantime I say things about phrases, objects, verbs, etc. maybe MCT as a read aloud on a rotation basis would be helpful. My son's favorite word used to be "stuff". Work with your DS and get him speaking in complete sentences. Word retrieval can be an issue. The webinar I mentioned addresses ways to work on vocabulary and word retrieval using pictures. I know you feel like you should be working more on grammar and composition, but don't feel bad about that. Your DS needs to get reading well first. If you delay a formal grammar or writing program for the time being, your child will still have a rigorous homeschool education. For now, you are working on the essential subroutines of writing and grammar. 8Filltheheart wrote a writing curriculum Treasured Conversations. At least three of her children are dyslexic and the eldest has ASD. You might want to examine her curriculum though I don't know exactly at what age it should be started. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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