SeaConquest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm not sure why this article (from October 2014) popped up in my NYT newsfeed today, but I found it an interesting think piece. I applied to Wellesley (rejected) and Smith (admitted) out of high school, and I have to admit that I am a bit conflicted about the issue. Thought it might be a good discussion. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/magazine/when-women-become-men-at-wellesley-college.html?WT.mc_id=2015-Q1-KEYWEE-AUD_DEV-0101-0331&WT.mc_ev=click&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1420088400&bicmet=1451624400&ad-keywords=KEYWEEAD&kwp_0=7348 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think Mills and Mt. Holyoke are ahead of the ball on this one. Discomfort with retaining transmen bothers me less than the discrimination against young trans women who usually cannot meet the standards for legal documentation, etc. I do think that once a student is admitted, they should be able to finish and graduate there. The reality of the discrimination transgender people experience generally makes including them a particularly poignant gesture for schools whose historic existence is was established as a counter to exclusion. I seriously thought about going to several women's colleges in high school. Writing all those essays seemed like a lot of work, though, so I joined the Navy instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Honestly, if you consider yourself to be a man, you have no business attending a women's college. There are too many other options available. I do believe exceptions could be made if a student is conflicted but still identifies as female when she starts attending a women's college, but who fully realizes that she (he) is transgendered while already a student. But at that point, it would seem that the now-male student would be more suited to a co-ed or single sex male environment, so I'm not sure exactly how I feel about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilaclady Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think this just raised issues that I am sometimes not comfortable with. I read the whole article and agree that once the student have been admitted, they should be allowed to graduate. what I think will happen is that the schools will end up not being for women only. I am ambivalent about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Fascinating article, thanks for posting. The talk of trans male to female students opting for women's colleges because they are perceived as safe spaces made me wonder about others who may choose a women's college as a safe space precisely because there are not (at least it is advertised that there are not) male students---women who may have issues due to sexual abuse or sexual assault, for instance--and the effect this has on their experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiche Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The only thing that bothered me was the guy insisting that male pronouns and male examples be used. One of the reasons I went to a woman's college (and a female prep school for that matter) was precisely because I wanted to avoid having to defer to the male point of view. My college was part of a consortium and the graduate school was coed so there were sometimes guys in the classes, but still, it was a different experience being in a majority female school and IMO a very good and empowering one. I'd be fine with trans men as long as they knew who ran the show. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Fascinating article, thanks for posting. The talk of trans male to female students opting for women's colleges because they are perceived as safe spaces made me wonder about others who may choose a women's college as a safe space precisely because there are not (at least it is advertised that there are not) male students---women who may have issues due to sexual abuse or sexual assault, for instance--and the effect this has on their experience. It seems to me that the guy who's been on testosterone for a couple of years is going to be more off-putting in female spaces than a young trans woman who is probably going to be very careful about hiding a body she's very self-conscious about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think there can be great value in single-sex education. I believe this has been researched, at least at the elementary and high school levels, showing particular benefits for females if I recall correctly. Whether that extends to college, I don't know, but it seems appropriated that if a school is established much in part to give those benefits to its students, it defeats a purpose of the school to break the single-sex student body. It only seems logical that if a student no longer identifies as a particular sex, they should not attend a school for that single sex. It makes no sense that they would live inconsistently with the gender they identify with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Proud to say I'm a Mt. Holyoke alum when it comes to this issue. I agree that they've been ahead of the curve for once on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 It seems to me that the guy who's been on testosterone for a couple of years is going to be more off-putting in female spaces than a young trans woman who is probably going to be very careful about hiding a body she's very self-conscious about. I'm sorry, Ravin, you are right (if I understand your terminology). I mis-typed and got the order backwards. That's what comes of discussing the article with my husband and daughter while I was typing! I *intended* to say that I wondered what effect having *female to male* students on campus (so people who were born female but now present/identify as male) would have on the experience of female students (including students born male who now present/identify as female) who have chosen a women's college as a "safe space" (ie all female student body) because of past negative experiences with sexual abuse or assualt from a male. I can also see some issues such a student might have about males who have not fully transitioned to female, particularly in residential halls. Overall, I don't think we are talking about large populations of either transgender students or students who chose a women's college primarily due to such a history of abuse/assault, but it seems a question worth asking in the context of this discussion. The whole issue is very complex! I have to admit I sometimes get lost in the terminology, such as whether "trans woman" indicates a person born male becoming female or born female becoming male. I'm definitely still on the learning curve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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