Who knows about genealogy? I've hit a wall.

[Jenny in Florida]

I've made stabs at tracing both my own heritage and my husband's several times over the years. For a variety of reasons, the line(s) I'm most interested in are my paternal grandparents'. However, even with the all-access, "world explorer" Ancestry.com subscription my husband got me for Christmas, I'm unable to find any solid info tracing either of them back beyond the 1930 census and one directory listing in 1926 (which just shows what city they lived in at the time).

 

I'm not in touch with my family of origin. So, I can't ask questions that might provide any leads. 

 

The few clues I have suggest that my grandfather's father was born in Ireland. My grandfather's records say he was born in Virginia, but it's entirely possible that's either inaccurate or just plain untrue.  I know his mother's maiden surname, but not her first name. And the one reference I have seen to her birthplace says "Egypt," which is tantalizing but completely not helpful.

 

In the very small number of records I have found, their last name is spelled differently in almost every one. And the spelling by which it came down to me does not seem to be common anywhere, let alone in Ireland. My grandfather had a very common first name.

 

Meanwhile, my grandmother on that side was apparently born in Russia, although she is sometimes listed as having been born in Philadelphia. She also went by two similar, but different, first names, one of which may have been a nickname. Her maiden name is also spelled slightly differently from document to document, but by either spelling seems to be pretty common in the part of the world where she was born.

 

So, when it comes to my grandfather, I can't find any trace of his existence beyond two census listings, one copyright listing for a song he apparently wrote in the 1930s, two directory listings, the record of his second marriage and his state and federal death listings.

 

When it comes to my grandmother, she appears with her husband on the census and directory listings, and I have her state and federal death records, but beyond that there are thousands of documents that match some combination of the variations of her first and maiden name with birth dates that are close enough to consider for women born in Russia and living in the U.S. by the time she should have met my grandfather. 

 

I have tried every search I can think of to turn up any additional info about my grandfather, including using wildcard characters and putting the filters on their broadest settings, looking for any trace of a male born in or near the appropriate state within 10 years of the right date with a father born in Ireland and with a name that contains even three of the correct characters in the right places. That does bring up a small number of records, but I have no way to connect any of them to any of the people in whom I'm interested.

 

For my grandmother, I can't think of any way to narrow down the enormous number of records available and determine whether any of those thousands of women with similar names, birthdays and birth locations are actually her.

 

If there's anyone here who has suggestions or hints about what else to try, I would be extremely grateful!

 

(If anyone is intrigued and wants to try digging in to help me solve the mystery, feel free to PM. I'll be happy to share the names and pertinent info privately.)

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

I'll PM you.  I've been doing genealogy for 30+ years.   I've also found working on someone else's frustrating line can be rejuvenating for my own frustrating lines.

 

the other thing to beware of - similar names could also be two different people.  even in very small towns, there are people with the same name.  I had to tell one person who was exultantly linking into mine, that her person of that name and my person of that name - born the same year in the same place . . . were two different people, and I knew it because mine was dead by age 21.

[TrixieB]

I'll take a little stab at this.

 

Do you have your grandparents' death certificates?  They'll show your grandparents' residence at the time of death, and may give clues to where they were born -- that depends on who provided info for the death certificate.  Sometimes the informant didn't know much about the deceased.  But an older sibling informant, for example, might give useful details.  Death certificates might give other info too.  Maybe scanned copies are online nowadays, but back when I was actively doing research, I had to mail for them.

 

You can search some immigration records online; for others you'll have to go to the closest archives.  Spelling can be very variable, depending on who wrote down the info, and who tried to read the handwriting to transcribe it.

 

Sometimes there just aren't any records; if Dad didn't go to town to register his child's birth with the town clerk, the birth registry won't have any record of that child.  Or if Dad was an immigrant who spoke with an accent, the town clerk might write down an incorrect name for the child.  Both of these happened in one branch of my family, in the U.S.

 

:bigear: hoping to hear other ideas!

[amyco]

Definitely see if you can obtain their death certificates, and if you know the place of their deaths, see if you can find their obituaries.  You never know what that will turn up...sometimes a sibling is named that can help you narrow down a search.  Most old newspapers from what I can tell are not on ancestry, some are free, but many are in a subscription service.  Your library might have a subscription service for old newspapers.  Of course if they were local to you your own library or historical society should have archives.   

 

Also do you have your father's birth certificate?  That might have good information about his parents' origin and preferred name spelling. 

 

I agree with the above, be very careful not to assume that because some info is "close" that it is the same person--sometimes it is, but more often, it isn't. 

 

Also you might look into the second marriage info--if you can find a license it might have more info on your grandfather.

 

I love genealogy!

Also if they may have come through Ellis Island try the ellisislandfoundation.org.  I found an ancestor this way...super cool when you find stuff! 

[gardenmom5]

TrixieB, on 09 Jan 2015 - 8:17 PM, said:TrixieB, on 09 Jan 2015 - 8:17 PM, said:

I'll take a little stab at this.

 

Do you have your grandparents' death certificates?  They'll show your grandparents' residence at the time of death, and may give clues to where they were born -- that depends on who provided info for the death certificate.  There might be other info too.  Maybe scanned copies are online nowadays, but back when I was actively doing research, I had to mail for them.

 

You can search some immigration records online; for others you'll have to go to the closest archives.  Spelling can be very variable, depending on who wrote down the info, and who tried to read the handwriting to transcribe it.

 

Sometimes there just aren't any records; if Dad didn't go to town to register his child's birth with the town clerk, the birth registry won't have any record of that child.  Or if Dad was an immigrant who spoke with an accent, the town clerk might write down an incorrect name for the child.  Both of these happened in one branch of my family, in the U.S.

 

:bigear: hoping to hear other ideas!

varies with states and time periods. 

 

I love Missouri - it's all scanned starting in 1910 - 1960ish? so, everything is there on the long form. 

 

then there is iowa.  they don't care if you're doing genealogy for someone who died 50 years ago -  if it's not your parent, you can't look at a copy.

 

 

eta: census records - also depends upon who is giving information.   I've had people make mistakes (e.g. confusing parents/guardians birthplaces,)  I've had people obviously LIE on the record, the person taking the record varies considerably in their conscientiousness of data.

 

and then there is the transcriptionist . . . some of those, you really have to wonder . . .  (and some forms are easier to read than others.)

[Legomom]

Try tracing everyone in the household that is listed on the census. If you search for other records on each person, sometimes you will come up with additional information. If their first names are more distinctive than your direct ancestor, it can help you determine if you are looking at the right family or area. Also, sometimes a parent or other family member may be living with them.

 

Also, one thing I love about ancestry.com is that they are always adding new records, so even if you hit a dead end now, there may be a new lead in a month or two.

 

I second the idea if using the Ellis Island website. It is surprising helpful.

[gaillardia]

I've had people change information I've posted; I've seen a photo of my grandfather listed with his brother and their identities were switched (at the same photo session, my grandfather had photos taken with my grandmother that's how I know their information is incorrect). It can be very frustrating, so I feel for you!

 

On the other hand, I've found that some of my line has been linked back very, very far and I do not know if this information is correct or not.

I found a great-great grandmother of my dh's, unintentionally, and found she had remarried after the death of her husband that my dh is descended from; which was why I couldn't find her; her last names were different. Her father's name was the same on both marriage certificates, and locations and dates matched other locations and dates. It can be fun playing family sleuth! 

 

One suggestion I don't see listed is to check with find a grave dot com and if you can, contact the cemeteries. They may have records that you will not find otherwise such as parents' names of the deceased, as well as the children of the deceased.

Also try checking with any churches that may be in the area where your ancestor lived in later years or where they were born. The churches may have records.

 

I would be happy to try to scrape at one or another. I have uncovered information that delighted me; but also found information that made me feel uncomfortable.

There is someone I know who cannot track the family line back any further than grandfather because he had to change his name and run away; from what they don't know, they have their suspicions, but no record.

Is there chance of adoption? My great grandmother was adopted, as well as her blood brother and sister by the same couple. Because it had been long enough ago, and my mom had enough information, she was able to find out a little more and get copies of papers from the state about the adoptions and welfare checks on the children.

 

 

[JFSinIL]

One way is to go sideways, and look for siblings of your ancestors. If the census is from a smallish town, skim every page. Often you will find the same last name, or other names you recognize (like the last name of someone you know will marry into the family etc.).  Folks tended to stick close together back then. and marry within the same community. Then poke around and look for their family - you may find relatives in common.  Find A Grave may have lists of relatives, too, or links to obits.

 

I am not above using Facebook to search for folks with the same last name as a grandparent or great grandparent living in the same or nearby towns I know Great Grandpa was from.  If I find someone, I message them that I am doing genealogy, am descended from Joe NotFamous from SmallTown USA....and would they know if they had a great uncle (etc.) of that name?

 

Also contact anyone at Ancestry who has any of your family tree in their tree.  I have found several distant cousins that way, and we have shared each others trees and info.

 

Of course, most of my tree goes back the the 1630 - not Mayflower folks, but still Great Migration of that decade.  With more recent immigrants, it can be hard.  My FIL was the first native born - researching his tree requires knowledge of Polish and perhaps Russian.  Can't do that :-(

 

Oh, and look at the state historical society webpages for anyplace your grandfolks lived. 

 

Good Luck!

 

[flyingiguana]

Death certificates sometimes even have mother's maiden name.  But you may have already found that.

 

Best advice - have relatives in New York city.  I swear they did a census every time someone turned around.  I've dug up more on that small subset of ancestors in NY than anything else.

 

And then I come to expect this sort of thing from Missouri or Kentucky, but no.  I'm lucky if my ancestors there even made it on to the federal census.  Sometimes they just disappear for a whole decade.

 

Some of the states have their own websites with censuses.  I think I've found one for VA, but I'm forgetting exactly where it was now (I got it through google, though).  They have old censuses of some counties, not all.  And some censuses were destroyed by fire -- but the state (or someone) is making an effort to reconstruct them using property tax records.  Problem is, my ancestors tended not to have much, if any property.  I do discover, occasionally, someone with the same name who owned a lot of cattle and land and slaves, so they'll be on the tax rolls and I think I've found MY ancestor, but I do a little more searching and discover that that can't be them.

 

http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi  -- can be a gold mine, or a frustrating dead end.  Some of it will depend on whether other descendants have added information.

 

Have you found the wikitree yet? http://www.wikitree.com/

Once again, if some other descendant has made this their passion, you may find someone has done a lot of the work for you.  This usually works better if you can get back far enough that your ancestor has left a lot of descendants.

 

I'm assuming the ancestry.com site probably has all the bells and whistles, but I've never been on it.  So it's possible the family search site has things the ancestry.com site is missing -- https://familysearch.org/     .  It might be worth a look, although I find that mostly I'm directed to ancestry.com for the documents I want to look at.

[flyingiguana]

Also, some churches have put their baptismal/burial records online.  Once again, in my case, I'm mostly finding this in NY.

 

I have not yet starting searching outside the US, because my ancestors seem to have been here some time.

 

I was about to tackle Germany, but I know what you're saying.  It's just overwhelming.  I've even got some possible clue as to what area of Germany I should be looking in, but there are so many little towns with so many people named exactly the same thing, generation after generation. 

[flyingiguana]

And what gets me -- every time someone becomes president or marries into the British royal family, some geneaologist puts out the claim that they are 10th cousins to this person, or 13th grand nephew of Richard III.  How do they know this?  What sources are they using?  It all seems so easy when they do it.

 

Sure, tracing someone in the royal line is easy because people hung on to the records, but then one of us commoners shows up on the scene and suddenly it's really easy to find their ancestry when us commoners are unable to do it for ourselves?

 

Are they just making stuff up?

[MaeFlowers]

I think everyone has offered great advise but I wanted to ask, are you sure that your family is Irish? It was passed down on my mother's side that part of the family was Irish but in reality, they were Dutch. My great grandfather that was suppose to have been born in England's records say he was born in the US. Many times records are wrong but often times, family rumors are the problem.

[kroe1]

I have never done this, but I had a maternal great aunt who traced back several lines very far back, one into the 1600's. This was prior to the internet so she had to write for, and travel to, locations with information. She would scout government buildings, libraries, property documents, museums, church registries, etc. she would even call every person in the phone book with the last names she was researching.

 

Some of the cool places she found photos were newspaper clippings of engagements and weddings, church registries, and people's basements. One stranger took her to an old shed (one of her random phone calls). He opened a trunk and there were tons of documents, photos, even a family book going back to the 1700's. She spent most of her post mommy years working on this. Sadly, I do not know where all that research is now.

 

My dad's side of the family has been easy to trace as there have been multiple family members over generations who have kept detailed records and scrapbooks. I am from a long line of sharecroppers, but all could read and write evidently. I guess homeschooling was always a part of my ancestry as I know the kiddos had to work fields during normal school hours. Lol.

[StartingOver]

I searched for a grandfather for 22 years. Everything I was told about him was wrong except his name, which was so very common. It seems now that the family split, as they lived just one state over, and never crosses paths again. I accidentally stumbled upon them.

 

All I can say is good luck.

 

I have lines, that names were butchered. The craziest one was when stepping off a boat a nickname was given for surname. Which made tracking here easy, but getting across the water not so much. Then it was just a dead end because of a fire in a church, where records are kept, in Sweden. Sigh

[mommymonster]

I just spent the last week in Wisconsin, and was able to spend a day doing genealogy work. It was wonderful! Here are some things that might be useful:

 

• If you know that your family owns real property instead of renting, you can go to the county where the property was located and do a grantor/grantee search. If you aren't near there, try emailing or calling. Most of the folks in the Recorder of Deeds Office I've dealt with are amazing.
• I concur about going sideways -- looking up aunts, uncles, cousins, and siblings. It helps to fill out the picture, as well as potentially finding leads. Also look at the people who lived near them in the census records you've had. I have found that a sibling group all emigrated from Germany at the same time. It helps in researching who the parents of the sibling group were. 
• If you know dates of death, you can request death records in some cases. Also, marriage licenses may be available. Both may include parents' full names and occupations. 
• Also, check for the county in which your relatives were known to live, and then do an internet search for the county's historical or genealogical societies. They also tend to be super-helpful, and love sharing their knowledge. 
• Consider accents! My husband's g-g-g-grandfather was from Germany. On his wedding license, all the "Z"s apparently sounded like "F"s... so, many years of searching in the wrong direction. We figured that out from family legend and plat maps.