Sony hacker/The Interview

[HS Mom in NC]

If it weren't for China, I would say we should invade NK, completely dismantle the government, and occupy them for the next decade. Seriously. I've been against nearly every US war and invasion in the last two decades, but this I could maybe get behind. But... China. And... money. So... not happening anyway. Instead we just get to keep doing the same thing for another fifty years and hoping for a different response. Oh well. Guess changing our approach with one communist nation is all we can take this year.

 

We don't need to occupy NK.  South Koreans have been eagerly awaiting reunification with NK on SK's terms.  They also earned the nickname, "The Miracle on the Han" because they went from a war devastated 3rd world country to an industrial and technological powerhouse within a life span.  Seriously, these folks know how to rebuild and move forward.  Let them handle managing with all of our love and support it once it's established with us hand in hand. Their political and economic structures are very compatible with the Industrialized Free World democracies after you make allowances for other cultural differences.  Leave it to the experts, I say. It is theirs after all.

[Farrar]

Yeah, they'd love to do it. But probably with US support.

 

Oh well, I can dream... of a world without NK.

[swimmermom3]

But Russia being more sophisticated also means they don't go nuts and threaten to kill random civilians over a movie. There have been political thrillers about Russia as the bad guy. But Putin isn't as funny as all the various NK leaders.

 

I'm shocked anyone thinks this sort of political satire should be off the table. Even if you don't like it, can you see that it's an important free speech right?

 

I don't believe political satire should be off the table and I do see it's an important free speech right.

 

Perhaps I now of an age where I am less enamored of "ideals."

 

Ideals are just that - ideal - but they aren't reality.

 

Someone's right to free speech can endanger the safety and welfare of many.

 

Someone's right to religious freedom can call for imprisoning others with different beliefs.

 

When we exercise our rights just because we can and do so without thought, it doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

 

I don't know. When I was in journalism school, I would have fiercely defended the right to free speech.  Now that I know that "free speech" is often not noble, just, enlightening, or courageous and is often just the opposite, I struggle.

 

Right now, I am a bit less focused on Sony's right to free speech and more focused on cyber security.

 

The same day this thread was posted, ds received a letter from his employer that it was very possible that his social security # was hacked along with his other personal identifying information. He works for DHS. I am trying to wrap my head around that one.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I was thinking the part in bold too. I know we live in an anything goes society (or sometimes it feels that way), but if another country made a similar movie about assassinating George W. Bush while he was in office, many Americans would have been beyond outraged.

 

That said, I am surprised at Sony's response. I also don't know what to make of the idea that the hacking was linked to North Korea. I just saw an episode on Jon Stewart where a journalist that undercover in North Korea as a teacher said that the very brightest of the North Korean young people don't even know the internet exists. Perhaps I am underestimating North Korean hacking skills.

 

Death of a President did come out while Bush was in office and many were outraged. It wasn't a comedy but a lot of people were still mad.

[Tsuga]

But the landscape in the 50's was so different. The gap in technology was so much closer between us and them. They were starving, but not as starving. And they had the full support of China and Chinese troops. If it weren't for China, I have no doubt we could take them. Again, there is China. And there's no way we would. I just don't think there's a good ending for NK any time in the future. I mean, honestly, I think the Chinese government is pretty evil, but if CHINA wanted to invade them and take them over, I'd almost be for that too. Just for someone to dismantle this nation.

 

We like to bandy around the word "crazy" when referring to our enemies. ISIS is "crazy." Putin is "crazy." The Taliban are "crazy." Um, no. That's political hyperbole or willful ignorance. But Kim Jong Un, he actually IS crazy. Putin, the Taliban, ISIS... they all behave basically rationally in pursuit of their goals. But Kim Jong Un thinks he's like the son of God or some crazy crap. And people in NK have no sense that there's any such thing as an immutable fact. They're completely irrational by all measures. And they have nuclear weapons. Limited, partly duds, without the capability to shoot them very well, but nuclear weapons. That's really scary. It's like a mental patient with a gun. And instead of coming up with a strategy to disarm the mental patient, we evacuated everyone we could from the looney bin and locked the doors, hoping eventually he'd pass out.

 

With all due respect, the Taliban really are crazy. I don't know much about ISIS. I don't think Putin is crazy, no. But I've worked in many of these areas and the Taliban are the worst I've ever seen.

 

They tore babies from their mothers arms and shot them, then the mother, then the father. They are incoherent. They are crazy. Maybe not in the funny wacky North Korean way, but just as bad.

 

They are why I am not a pacifist any more.

[Farrar]

With all due respect, the Taliban really are crazy. I don't know much about ISIS. I don't think Putin is crazy, no. But I've worked in many of these areas and the Taliban are the worst I've ever seen.

 

They tore babies from their mothers arms and shot them, then the mother, then the father. They are incoherent. They are crazy. Maybe not in the funny wacky North Korean way, but just as bad.

 

They are why I am not a pacifist any more.

 

I can see your point, but I think they do horrible, evil things but in large part because they believe that terror is a means to achieving their goals and bringing them to power. It helps them control people by instilling fear. But they know what they're doing. Maybe fifty years ago, I would have put Kim Il Sung in that category, but Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un both use fear and terror to control people, but in part because they're completely departed from reality. I think they both basically believed their own brainwashing. They don't have any larger goals. I think they actually think in some way that what they're doing is good for their people, which is really messed up. 

 

Yeah, stuff like that is why I couldn't be a pacifist either, despite all my time with the Quakers.

[Farrar]

And now it seems like a lot more people (like cyber security expert people, not random people) are saying they don't think it was NK. Which makes it really weird that the government said so definitively that it was. Or did they just jump the gun in their haste to blame someone? Maybe Obama just really wanted to see The Interview.

[Pawz4me]

I can see your point, but I think they do horrible, evil things but in large part because they believe that terror is a means to achieving their goals and bringing them to power. It helps them control people by instilling fear. But they know what they're doing. Maybe fifty years ago, I would have put Kim Il Sung in that category, but Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un both use fear and terror to control people, but in part because they're completely departed from reality. I think they both basically believed their own brainwashing. They don't have any larger goals. I think they actually think in some way that what they're doing is good for their people, which is really messed up. 

 

Yeah, stuff like that is why I couldn't be a pacifist either, despite all my time with the Quakers.

 

I think the bolded is very possible.  Especially with KJU.

[T'smom]

I don't believe political satire should be off the table and I do see it's an important free speech right.

 

Perhaps I now of an age where I am less enamored of "ideals."

 

Ideals are just that - ideal - but they aren't reality.

 

Someone's right to free speech can endanger the safety and welfare of many.

 

Someone's right to religious freedom can call for imprisoning others with different beliefs.

 

When we exercise our rights just because we can and do so without thought, it doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

 

I don't know. When I was in journalism school, I would have fiercely defended the right to free speech. Now that I know that "free speech" is often not noble, just, enlightening, or courageous and is often just the opposite, I struggle.

 

Right now, I am a bit less focused on Sony's right to free speech and more focused on cyber security.

 

The same day this thread was posted, ds received a letter from his employer that it was very possible that his social security # was hacked along with his other personal identifying information. He works for DHS. I am trying to wrap my head around that one.

 

DHS as in the department of Homeland Security?!?! Yikes!!!! That is very scary!

[Laurie]

And now it seems like a lot more people (like cyber security expert people, not random people) are saying they don't think it was NK. Which makes it really weird that the government said so definitively that it was. Or did they just jump the gun in their haste to blame someone? 

 

This is what bothers me...maybe North Korea didn't do it, but this becomes a convenient excuse to get more control over us in the name of cybersecurity.  

 

There have been concerns about cybersecurity legislation in the past, but maybe it will be easier to sell to the lawmakers if they think they're protecting us from an enemy nation.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/beware-dangers-congress-latest-cybersecurity-bill

 

 

[Ravin]

I love that! Just hacking into their state TV and showing anything.

 

 

Imagine the potential trauma for people raised to think that thinking badly about the dictator could result in their entire family's deaths. No thank you.

 

 

I hope everyone knows I was JOKING. 

 

I honestly don't know what a "proportionate" response on the part of the U.S. government would be. We're still in very unknown territory when it comes to the possibilities and implications of cyber-warfare. It hasn't been well enough accounted for and we're in the midst of an arms race.

[Farrar]

I knew you were joking. I was too. Though I do think any radio free Korea media we get through is probably for the good.

[Momof3]

So...now Sony is showing the movie...

 

And NK has been experiencing internet blackout...

[HS Mom in NC]

Don't you hate it when people hack into your system, cause problems, and don't take responsibility for it?

[Pawz4me]

I probably shouldn't be so weirdly fascinated by this whole thing, but . . .  I am. :tongue_smilie:

[Momof3]

I probably shouldn't be so weirdly fascinated by this whole thing, but . . .  I am. :tongue_smilie:

Me, too. :)

 

I am so not a fan of Hollywood...

 

But I'm a bigger not-a-fan of North Korea. :) 

[Mrs Mungo]

So...now Sony is showing the movie...

 

And NK has been experiencing internet blackout...

Very interesting. I wonder what made them change their minds about showing the movie. That move does make me wonder if this was a publicity stunt in part.

[Tsuga]

I can see your point, but I think they do horrible, evil things but in large part because they believe that terror is a means to achieving their goals and bringing them to power. It helps them control people by instilling fear. But they know what they're doing. Maybe fifty years ago, I would have put Kim Il Sung in that category, but Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un both use fear and terror to control people, but in part because they're completely departed from reality. I think they both basically believed their own brainwashing. They don't have any larger goals. I think they actually think in some way that what they're doing is good for their people, which is really messed up. 

 

Yeah, stuff like that is why I couldn't be a pacifist either, despite all my time with the Quakers.

 

Hm. We must know different Talibs. ;)

 

I understand what you are saying--like Kim Jong Un is so disconnected from reality that we would have to say that it's a mental illness if we didn't know how he got that way.

 

But I'd say most Taliban are similar. We are just more familiar with their delusion. But I personally do not think that "I'm a god and people like suffering for me and look at how happy they are" is any more crazy than believing "god loves people with penises more than people without and wants you to be my slave and when you cry that's because god wants you to suffer".

 

Just because more people believe something closer to what they believe doesn't make it any less crazy.

 

But this is more a philosophical point... we obviously agree on the important stuff.

[Pawz4me]

Very interesting. I wonder what made them change their minds about showing the movie. That move does make me wonder if this was a publicity stunt in part.

 

I initially thought it was a publicity stunt.  But I can't believe that a company would release their own employees' SS numbers and other personal information.  And although I'm not totally convinced that NK is behind it, I want to hope that the FBI experts are competent enough to be able to figure out if it was a publicity stunt.

 

But I don't doubt for one second that Sony is scrambling to do everything they can to capitalize on the situation. ;)

[Momof3]

I initially thought it was a publicity stunt.  But I can't believe that a company would release their own employees' SS numbers and other personal information.  And although I'm not totally convinced that NK is behind it, I want to hope that the FBI experts are competent enough to be able to figure out if it was a publicity stunt.

 

But I don't doubt for one second that Sony is scrambling to do everything they can to capitalize on the situation. ;)

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Mrs Mungo]

Oh, I don't doubt they were hacked. I only meant whether the threats were credible enough to actually cancel the movie.

[Pawz4me]

This is interesting.

 

 

 

"We are very confident that this was not an attack master-minded by North Korea and that insiders were key to the implementation of one of the most devastating attacks in history," said Stammberger.

He says Norse data is pointing towards a woman who calls herself "Lena" and claims to be connected with the so-called "Guardians of Peace" hacking group. Norse believes it's identified this woman as someone who worked at Sony in Los Angeles for ten years until leaving the company this past May.

"This woman was in precisely the right position and had the deep technical background she would need to locate the specific servers that were compromised," Stammberger told me.