MITx Lewin course now offline. Anyone else affected?

[Kinspired]

My poor dd. After I'd bungled the beginning of her school year by getting the wrong edition of the book, she'd finally hit a groove and was 60% through the class, and now it's off. She really enjoyed his lectures and had hoped to take AP Physics C- Mechanics in the spring. Anyone else affected by this? What is your next course of action? Any advice?

[regentrude]

Uh oh. especially looking at the MIT news report as to WHY the course was removed....

 

 

She could select one of the other MIT OCW Physics courses with different instructors. I'd simply use one of those.

There are also other sources of online physics lectures (I don't know any free complete courses, but comprehensive lecture series).

[Kinspired]

Thanks for the reply regentrude. Uh oh is right. What a sad situation for all involved.

 

After a little freak-out moment, we decided on EDx's AP physics courses in the spring. We'll just count her work this semester as practice:). The dilemma now is how we'll document it on her transcripts. If anyone has advice on this, I'm all ears. How do you deal with a course, interrupted?

[regentrude]

After a little freak-out moment, we decided on EDx's AP physics courses in the spring. We'll just count her work this semester as practice:). The dilemma now is how we'll document it on her transcripts. If anyone has advice on this, I'm all ears. How do you deal with a course, interrupted?

 

You could simply give one credit for a year of "Calculus based physics with AP exam". Her coursework consisted of the work she did with the Lewine course so far and the course she is taking in the spring.

If you wish, you can explain details in the couse descriptions, but for a standard course like physics, it is likely nobody will care what exactly she did - even more so if she takes the AP exam.

[Michelle_NC]

Just a thought ... have you tried contacting them and asking what the back-up plan is for those still in the course?  They might be able to give you a direct link to the course materials so she can finish.  

[kiana]

I agree 100% with regentrude. Don't make it more difficult than you have to. 

[Kathy in Richmond]

His 8.01 Mechanics video lectures are still up on youtube.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My poor dd. After I'd bungled the beginning of her school year by getting the wrong edition of the book, she'd finally hit a groove and was 60% through the class, and now it's off. She really enjoyed his lectures and had hoped to take AP Physics C- Mechanics in the spring. Anyone else affected by this? What is your next course of action? Any advice?

 

Wow.  I understand why it was taken off the interactive menu of courses.  But I'm taken aback that all of the recordings of his classroom lectures were removed as well. 

 

Is there not a way to distinguish between what were recordings of useful classroom content and what is inappropriate behavior in other settings? 

 

On the original question: there may be some lectures in MIT Open Course Ware section that will work for the spring.  It looks like there is a Physics I as well as several Physics II options.  Http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics

[JanetC]

Wow. I understand why it was taken off the interactive menu of courses. But I'm taken aback that all of the recordings of his classroom lectures were removed as well.

 

It's not simply about not giving him the ability to interact with students. It's a statement of institutional values.

 

Since he is a retired professor, there are actually very few punishments that MIT could effectively impart. Removing his legacy from all MIT websites is a painful punishment to a modern academic and a powerful message to the university community that this behavior will not be tolerated under MIT's name. If a rock star like dr Lewin can't get away with this, no one can.

 

There will be other ways to learn physics.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It's not simply about not giving him the ability to interact with students. It's a statement of institutional values.

 

Since he is a retired professor, there are actually very few punishments that MIT could effectively impart. Removing his legacy from all MIT websites is a painful punishment to a modern academic and a powerful message to the university community that this behavior will not be tolerated under MIT's name. If a rock star like dr Lewin can't get away with this, no one can.

 

There will be other ways to learn physics.

You make a good point.

 

But I'll reserve some judgement until or unless I see some of the actual text of the harassing messages. It wasn't that long ago that a USMC general was investigated for improper emails. When the text finally came out it didn't come close to how it was hyped in the media reports.

 

It may well be that the emails were over the top improper. They may have hit in a gray area of unwise but open to subjective judgement. They may have been pretty innocuous but something that someone complained about.

[regentrude]

But I'll reserve some judgement until or unless I see some of the actual text of the harassing messages. It wasn't that long ago that a USMC general was investigated for improper emails. When the text finally came out it didn't come close to how it was hyped in the media reports.

 

It may well be that the emails were over the top improper. They may have hit in a gray area of unwise but open to subjective judgement. They may have been pretty innocuous but something that someone complained about.

 

That is always the problem with trying somebody in the court of public opinion and the media. His story is all over the news and his reputation consequently ruined - but nobody except the people at MIT and the accuser know what he actually wrote. I don't like it.

[Julie of KY]

While the punishment is harsh, we have no way of knowing if it fits the infraction.

 

I hope the videos remain available through youtube. I would still like my son to watch the videos. We can do problem sets from anywhere. I took the course last fall when it was offered - homework, tests, and all.

[JanetC]

That is always the problem with trying somebody in the court of public opinion and the media. His story is all over the news and his reputation consequently ruined - but nobody except the people at MIT and the accuser know what he actually wrote. I don't like it.

Huh? I don't see how he was tried in the court of public opinion. As far as I can tell, the whole thing was kept confidential until the findings were announced.

 

If you are asking all the evidence to be available for the public to make their own decision, that would be trying in the court of public opinion. And, the court of public opinion is probably the least deliberative court available. Keeping the investigation confidential protected his reputation while MIT considered the evidence.

 

If Dr Lewin feels that evidence in his favor was not considered by his university and department, I suppose he might file a lawsuit and this could go to the legal system and become part of the public record, otherwise, I'm not sure we'll ever know exactly what the investigators found.

 

I'm pretty sure that MIT knew it was embarrassing itself and the professor with this action and decided to do it anyway. I do hope it was in the spirit of my previous post (as a statement of institutional values against harassment of students), but I suppose it could possibly be a misunderstanding or a political turf battle gone horribly awry.

 

I hope that they took the approach that extraordinary actions require extraordinary evidence. But, the only "evidence" I have is my stereotype of MIT as being inhabited by pretty smart people.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

MIT is keeping some of Lewin’s lecture videos available on ocw2.mit.edu until the end of the semester. “We realize that some of you may have been using some materials from the OCW versions of the course as you prepare for your exams,†physics department administrators wrote in an email to students in an introductory physics class.

 

[regentrude]

 

 

yes, I found that too,  but the link does not work.

[regentrude]

Huh? I don't see how he was tried in the court of public opinion. As far as I can tell, the whole thing was kept confidential until the findings were announced.

 

If you are asking all the evidence to be available for the public to make their own decision, that would be trying in the court of public opinion. And, the court of public opinion is probably the least deliberative court available. Keeping the investigation confidential protected his reputation while MIT considered the evidence.

 

Maybe I did not express it correctly. What bothers me is that a cryptic announcement is made that gets plastered all over national news and effectively destroys a person's reputation without evidence being presented to the people who only see this statement. We have no insight into the workings of this MIT committee that evaluated the case.

 

I'm pretty sure that MIT knew it was embarrassing itself and the professor with this action and decided to do it anyway. I do hope it was in the spirit of my previous post (as a statement of institutional values against harassment of students), but I suppose it could possibly be a misunderstanding or a political turf battle gone horribly awry.

 

Which is why I would find it important to have actual information and not a nebulous accusal without specifics.

 

Anybody harassing a student in an online class, i.e. leaving an electronic record of every.single. word must be either clueless or stupid... or is misunderstood. I have a hard time imagining what the guy could possibly have written that require such drastic action. One would expect that is should have been extremely bad... but it boggles my mind how a physics course would lend itself to this...discussions usually do not veer into questionable territory as it could easily be the case with other subjects.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Maybe I did not express it correctly. What bothers me is that a cryptic announcement is made that gets plastered all over national news and effectively destroys a person's reputation without evidence being presented to the people who only see this statement. We have no insight into the workings of this MIT committee that evaluated the case.

 

 

Which is why I would find it important to have actual information and not a nebulous accusal without specifics.

 

Anybody harassing a student in an online class, i.e. leaving an electronic record of every.single. word must be either clueless or stupid... or is misunderstood. I have a hard time imagining what the guy could possibly have written that require such drastic action. One would expect that is should have been extremely bad... but it boggles my mind how a physics course would lend itself to this...discussions usually do not veer into questionable territory as it could easily be the case with other subjects.

 

This is along the lines of what I was thinking.  I am pretty confident that something more will come out in the following weeks, but by then, the media will have moved on, and his reputation will be "sexual harasser who used to do physics" rather than "physics professor who had accusations made against him".

 

I would like to believe that the complaint was well founded, that the university as his employer took it seriously, that it was well investigated, and that the actions taken were appropriate to the severity of the situation. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of confidence in a university being willing to look at the evidence in a case involving an accusation of harassment and come up with a response that isn't heavily influenced by a CYA bias.  I have no information about this specific complaint, but a lot of what I see described as harassment or micro aggressions just doesn't come up to what I would consider harassment.  I'm not ruling out that there was some email sent that was vile and stupid.  But it also seems common for schools to label as harassment things that just don't seem particularly harassing. 

 

[JanetC]

I don't know:  It could very well be that the final agreement of the investigation includes a gag order on one or both sides.  I guess time will tell, though.

[Kinspired]

You could simply give one credit for a year of "Calculus based physics with AP exam". Her coursework consisted of the work she did with the Lewine course so far and the course she is taking in the spring.

If you wish, you can explain details in the couse descriptions, but for a standard course like physics, it is likely nobody will care what exactly she did - even more so if she takes the AP exam.

Thank you! I was so focused on giving credits per semester, and I didn't know how I was going to explain that she didn't complete the course. Thanks for giving me an alternative. We have so much flexibility as homeschoolers. Her transcripts don't have to look like my public school one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michelle_NC]

Try this link:  http://ocw2.mit.edu/courses/physics/

[wendyroo]

Try this link:  http://ocw2.mit.edu/courses/physics/

 

I don't think so.  I'm pretty sure he taught the two 8.01 courses that are currently stripped of their instructor information and no longer have a View Course button.

 

It is unfortunate (yet understandable) that the lectures had to be taken down.  I took his 8.01 course when I was at MIT and he was a phenomenal instructor.

 

Wendy

[Michelle_NC]

Well ... the videos were up a few minutes ago and now they're gone again.   :crying:

[Kathy in Richmond]

I don't think so.  I'm pretty sure he taught the two 8.01 courses that are currently stripped of their instructor information and no longer have a View Course button.

 

It is unfortunate (yet understandable) that the lectures had to be taken down.  I took his 8.01 course when I was at MIT and he was a phenomenal instructor.

 

Wendy

 

Agreed. I took both of his edX classes, including the one where the harassment occurred (totally unbeknownst to me). What an absolutely fantastic and inspiring teacher. I just can't fathom why he'd do such a stupid thing. Feeling sad for MIT today...

 

In case you missed the earlier link, his 8.01 videos are still available on youtube.

 

[wendyroo]

Agreed. I took both of his edX classes, including the one where the harassment occurred (totally unbeknownst to me). What an absolutely fantastic and inspiring teacher. I just can't fathom why he'd do such a stupid thing. Feeling sad for MIT today...

 

In case you missed the earlier link, his 8.01 videos are still available on youtube.

 

 

I hadn't even looked at his 8.01 videos on YouTube.  Those are from Fall of '99.  That is when I took his class; I am probably sitting in the lecture hall during some of those videos.

 

Wendy

[wendyroo]

I hadn't even looked at his 8.01 videos on YouTube.  Those are from Fall of '99.  That is when I took his class; I am probably sitting in the lecture hall during some of those videos.

 

Wendy

 

I found me.  I was sitting near the front - how studious.   :tongue_smilie:

 

And how young and naive.  Those were some of my first days at MIT...I had no clue what I was in for, and no appreciation for how lucky I was to have the opportunity.

 

Wendy

[Kathy in Richmond]

I found me.  I was sitting near the front - how studious.   :tongue_smilie:

 

How fun! Lewin used that set of videos in his edX version of 8.01, so I probably "saw" you in my class. :)

 

 

And how young and naive.  Those were some of my first days at MIT...I had no clue what I was in for, and no appreciation for how lucky I was to have the opportunity.

 

Wendy

Pretty much sums up my son's experience...Never did he work harder, never did he miss a place more afterwards.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

This is along the lines of what I was thinking.  I am pretty confident that something more will come out in the following weeks, but by then, the media will have moved on, and his reputation will be "sexual harasser who used to do physics" rather than "physics professor who had accusations made against him".

 

 

I wouldn't count on it.  I didn't see anything in the articles that implied they were turning the case over to the police.  If they had irrefutable proof, that would be the thing to do.

[regentrude]

I wouldn't count on it.  I didn't see anything in the articles that implied they were turning the case over to the police.  If they had irrefutable proof, that would be the thing to do.

 

Not necessarily, since what might constitute harrassing behavior not in line with the code of conduct of the university could still be far below the threshold of criminal offense.

Inappropriate is not the same as illegal.

 

[raptor_dad]

I would like to believe that the complaint was well founded, that the university as his employer took it seriously, that it was well investigated, and that the actions taken were appropriate to the severity of the situation. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of confidence in a university being willing to look at the evidence in a case involving an accusation of harassment and come up with a response that isn't heavily influenced by a CYA bias.  I have no information about this specific complaint, but a lot of what I see described as harassment or micro aggressions just doesn't come up to what I would consider harassment.  I'm not ruling out that there was some email sent that was vile and stupid.  But it also seems common for schools to label as harassment things that just don't seem particularly harassing. 

 

 

Absent either physical contact or stalking, sexual harassment is almost always a civil rather than criminal matter.

 

Crude jokes, solicitation, requesting or sending sexually explicit material, etc, etc... all these create a hostile work environment. It is no different in the classroom. The power imbalance between a boss/teacher and employee/student is what moves it beyond just someone being a jerk.

 

I am inclined to trust MIT's internal review, especially given that there were multiple people complaining. Vile and stupid emails are basically the definition of civil sexual harassment.

 

[regentrude]

, especially given that there were multiple people complaining.

 

Were there? The press release just stated that the complainant provided the info. AFAIK, the other women online learners have not complained.

 

She provided information about Lewin’s interactions with her...as well as information about interactions between Lewin and other women online learners.

[raptor_dad]

Were there? The press release just stated that the complainant provided the info. AFAIK, the other women online learners have not complained.

 

Most of my sources were on Reddit and HackerNews, etc. Hearsay at best...

 

But here is a pseudo-print source from http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2014/12/09/sexual-harassment-complaint-mit-removed-professors-online-lectures/

 

"The internet age has brought sexual harassment to the digital realm on a lot of platforms—social networks, dating websites—even online education. On the last point: Monday, MIT removed the popular online physics lectures of retired Professor Walter Lewin after an investigation found that he had sexually harassed several women online who took his course through MIT’s EdX platform."

 

Much like in the Aaron Swartz case, I would like to see the full documentation but it looks like MIT did the right thing here.

[regentrude]

Most of my sources were on Reddit and HackerNews, etc. Hearsay at best...

 

But here is a pseudo-print source from http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2014/12/09/sexual-harassment-complaint-mit-removed-professors-online-lectures/

 

"The internet age has brought sexual harassment to the digital realm on a lot of platforms—social networks, dating websites—even online education. On the last point: Monday, MIT removed the popular online physics lectures of retired Professor Walter Lewin after an investigation found that he had sexually harassed several women online who took his course through MIT’s EdX platform."

 

But in the links, I see no mention of several accusers. They all only mention the ONE complainant.

[Cosmos]

I found me.  I was sitting near the front - how studious.   :tongue_smilie:

 

And how young and naive.  Those were some of my first days at MIT...I had no clue what I was in for, and no appreciation for how lucky I was to have the opportunity.

 

Wendy

 

Am I the only nosy one? Tell us where to see you. :)

 

[wendyroo]

Am I the only nosy one? Tell us where to see you. :)

 

 

In the first 8.01 lecture at the 3:42 mark.

 

There are three heads right along the bottom of the screen, and I am behind them centered between the left two.  I am wearing glasses and a navy blue shirt with white lettering on it.

 

That was probably my first lecture ever at MIT.

 

Wendy

[dhudson]

Thanks for the help finding the videos. My ds was in the midst of the class and we freaked out a bit when they were taken down.

[Michelle_NC]

Thank you for your feedback to MIT OpenCourseWare regarding the removal of
Walter Lewin's courses from the OpenCourseWare web site.

As previously announced
https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/lewin-courses-removed-1208, MIT has
determined that Dr. Lewin violated MIT policy against sexual harassment in
MIT's online learning environment. MIT has indefinitely removed Dr. Lewin's
online lectures and courses in the interest of preventing further
inappropriate teacher-to-student interactions.

Dr. Lewin's video lectures continue to be available on other sites (such as
Academic Earth http://academicearth.org/physics/ and VideoLectures.net
http://videolectures.net/) because copies were made through OCW's Creative
Commons License. Having indefinitely removed the materials from our site and
having made our concerns public, we are not asking for organizations outside
of MIT to take the same action.

Sincerely,
The MIT OpenCourseWare Team
http://ocw.mit.edu

We hope you enjoy using OCW and consider supporting our work. Find out how
at http://ocw.mit.edu/donate/why-donate/

[Grantmom]

 

In case you missed the earlier link, his 8.01 videos are still available on youtube.

 

 

The videos on youtube aren't available anymore, and have been made private.

 

There are still videos of his up on the academic earth website link above.

[Mike in SA]

The videos on youtube aren't available anymore, and have been made private.

 

There are still videos of his up on the academic earth website link above.

 

Those just point to youtube, unfortunately...

[Grantmom]

Those just point to youtube, unfortunately...

 

 

I didn't know which videos had been up on youtube on that link, so was just commenting that the link didn't work anymore.  There are a lot of videos there on the academic earth link.

[Mike in SA]

I didn't know which videos had been up on youtube on that link, so was just commenting that the link didn't work anymore.  There are a lot of videos there on the academic earth link.

 

They're still up on videolectures, though.  :)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Those just point to youtube, unfortunately...

 

I found some this morning by going into YouTube and searching for Lewin Physics MIT.  It looks like the channel For the Allure of Physics has put all of them up.