s/o Ferguson protest

[Laurie]

There have been protests here in Seattle.   Last week some people walked onto the freeway and shut down traffic for awhile.  Last night, a loud group disrupted the downtown Christmas tree lighting event and left many of the choir children in tears, according to journalists.  

 

As I've watched the local news coverage,  I've been disturbed by some of the signs being carried here in the Ferguson protests.  Examples:   "Close All the Jails"   and "I Am Chris Monfort"  

 

Closing all the jails?  I know this is the desire of the local anarchists.  When my husband was attending a meeting about building a new juvenile detention center because the old facility is in bad shape there was a loud, vile group that caused the meeting to end because they wouldn't stop shouting and swearing. 

 

And about Christopher Monfort...he's the local cop killer who drove up to a police car that was parked and fired shots into the vehicle, killing one of the police officers inside.  Then he drove away but was eventually arrested.  His trial is just beginning.   He hates the police and is apparently a hero to some people around here.

 

I just looked at the local anarchists' website and found this:  (I took out the f word)

 

"At war with the world? Upset that the the pig who f****** murdered Mike Brown is still alive? Disgusted that the RCP continues to try to stop people from expressing their rage? When the RCP and other self-appointed cops showed up in Ferguson the first time, they tried to bring an evolving insurrection to a halt, but they won't be able to do that this time around. Feel free to express your rage anytime and anywhere, but if you'd like company then join us Saturday night."

 

(Well, it's Saturday.  I guess we'll see what happens tonight.)

 

 

I think reasonable people can talk about things like body cameras for police, etc.  But I'm concerned that there are some unreasonable people who need to be exposed for their ultimate goals.  When you're reading about the protests, especially the new protests aimed businesses, I would take note of any names in news stories and do some googling to find out who the organizers are and what else they might be involved in. 

[momacacia]

I never see names mentioned in the articles about the protests and riots. I'm sure the people who owned property and businesses in Ferguson which we're burned down would love to know that names of the people who committed arson.

 

A much broader cultural issue as well is the glorified anti-police and cop-killing lyrics in the some of the popular music, aside from an anarchist group. There is also the contributing factor of many people in one's surrounding community having done or currently doing time in jail. Jail is this bad place where they put the people that you love, like your uncle and your daddy. The way you solve conflict is not through lawful communication or the legal system, but through felony armed robbery as Brown's mother reportedly did when a group, including Brown's grandmother, were selling T-shirts in support of her son.

 

It's just a completely different cultural perspective, and maybe lawlessness is the best way to describe it. :(

[poppy]

Protesters are cop hating anarchists.

Christians hate gay people.

White men are racist.

All men are rapists.

....... 

This is my way of saying, think about what the protestors are trying to say, instead of finding a way to dismiss them all by focusing on the worst of them.

 

[gardenmom5]

protests like this have gone on a long time even in seattle.  I think it was the WTO protests that blocked the freeway including an ambulance that was attempting to get a patient to harborview (a regional trauma center).  the patient later died.  it did subdue the protestors after that - at least they stopped blocking the freeways.

 

a guy in la jolla started yelling at the protestors blocking I5 that he had to get to his job because he had kids to feed and he was afraid he'd lose his job (one of three he had) because they were making him late for work.

 

people who want positive change - don't burn buildings, they don't steal, and they don't do things that would cause other's to lose their jobs.

[SarahB82]

What culture are you describing as lawless? In general, black people? Black youth ? Lower class of any color? Let me add that rap music is quite popular at my son's school, where probably 97% are white, upper middle class students. There is also a high amount of pot smoking, yet officials choose to look away so as not to ruin these up and coming lives.This is where troubles of communication begin...

What is white culture music? Do white youth ever love the type of anti cop music you describe?

Can you not understand that describing someone's culture as lawless is extremely hurtful and wrong and doesn't benefit anyone but perhaps those determined to find reasons others are lacking?

You said black people- no one else did. I believe she is referring to the people who want to kill cops and abolish laws as lawless. I think people who participate in that culture would be just fine being labeled as lawless.

Can you not understand everyone isn't a racist.?

[Laurie4b]

Any large protest movement will draw a certain fringe element. Anarchists is a good general description even if they don't announce themselves that way. What often happens then is that the larger movement of peaceful protesters gets blamed for those fringe elements who aren't even a part of the movement. The larger movement gets discredited even when they have something very worthwhile to say. This happens on both ends of the political spectrum. So it's good to remember before we characterize a protest by the actions of a minority of people present. Even when a protest has identified leaders, it can be hard for the leaders to separate the legitimate protest from the fringe, because the fringe has constitutional rights to assemble too and if they choose to assemble dispersed throughout the protest you wanted to keep peaceful, there's not much you can do.

 

 

[Laurie]

 Even when a protest has identified leaders, it can be hard for the leaders to separate the legitimate protest from the fringe, because the fringe has constitutional rights to assemble too and if they choose to assemble dispersed throughout the protest you wanted to keep peaceful, there's not much you can do.

 

And sometimes the organizers are part of "the fringe" themselves and are using an incident to further their own agenda, be it anti-capitalism, anarchy, etc.  

 

My point is, if organizers give their names to the media it might be interesting to see what else they're advocating.    

 

 

[SarahB82]

I never see names mentioned in the articles about the protests and riots. I'm sure the people who owned property and businesses in Ferguson which we're burned down would love to know that names of the people who committed arson.

 

A much broader cultural issue as well is the glorified anti-police and cop-killing lyrics in the some of the popular music, aside from an anarchist group. There is also the contributing factor of many people in one's surrounding community having done or currently doing time in jail. Jail is this bad place where they put the people that you love, like your uncle and your daddy. The way you solve conflict is not through lawful communication or the legal system, but through felony armed robbery as Brown's mother reportedly did when a group, including Brown's grandmother, were selling T-shirts in support of her son.

 

It's just a completely different cultural perspective, and maybe lawlessness is the best way to describe it. :(

I am quoting her post because I don't know how to mq.

Her first paragraph is about identifying individuals responsible for property damage during riots in general. She remarks that Ferguson business owners would love to be able to identify those who committed criminal acts against their businesses.

She says anti-police , cop-killing and committing felonies rather than take a legal approach: I find it pretty clear she is indicating people with those perspectives have a culture of lawlessness. You assigned those qualities to black people.

[idnib]

Eh, these people are always around and are a combination of those who truly believe in what they're saying, opportunists and hangers-on, and people who get a thrill out of getting away with things in a chaotic situation they normally wouldn't get away with.

[Laurie]

Here's some of the "peaceful" protest downtown:  http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/2014/11/28/black-friday-turns-to-protests/19631329/

 

I don't believe that people behaving this way and yelling "Shut it down!" qualify as peaceful protesters.  Thank goodness one of the hosts spoke out about staying away from the kids!

 

I noticed some printed signs from the revolutionary communist party in the crowd.  I wonder how much these guys care if local businesses are hurt by this type of protest?  And what kind of people want to go around frightening little kids??? 

 

 

[LucyStoner]

Most of the protests here in Seattle have not taken that tone though. The loudest people get the TV cameras. I have multiple friends who have been active in these activities and a close friend who is a print journalist covering it all closely. Most of it is not coming from cop killer apologists or fringe radicals. More than a thousand people participated on Tuesday, mostly with the message that black lives matter.

 

It may surprise some people but the SPD has recently been under federal supervision for racial bias in policing. There's a lot of bad blood between parts of the community and the police. I can rattle off more than half a dozen names of people killed or beat up without justification by SPD. It's an unfortunate history which adds to the undercurrent of these protests.

 

And there are cranky communist party or anarchy types downtown EVERY Black Friday in Seattle trying to disrupt shoppers and mess with people. They might say it's about police violence this year but they've been there since before WTO/Battle in Seattle. They are irrelevant to most of the protesters this week, some of whom weren't even in kindergarten when WTO happened. They are a predictable part of the downtown holiday landscape. There are also those anti-abortion REPENT people and that mentally ill dude who thinks a low income housing he was evicted from is managed by commie devils. If people don't want to deal with the chaos and cranksters, they can stick to U Village, Bellevue Square and Southcenter for shopping. Obviously no one should be harassing children. The mayor and police chief met with the kids afterwards.