Needing some help choosing curriculum...

[lovinmomma]

I've been out of the loop for awhile now, and we're currently using a virtual charter school. I'm wanting to switch to my own choices for curriculum in Jan or Feb, but I'm not sure what to choose. I've discussed this before on the forums, but I feel like I have a better idea of what dd is needing now.

 

My dd is dyslexic (un-diagnosed). Specifically, I'd like some help choosing math. She's currently using Math in Focus, but I don't think it's right for her. Well, at least the way that it's presented isn't right for her. DD needs repetition (and a lot of it) before she understands a concept. However, she also needs things to be reviewed regularly or she quickly forgets what she's learned. Any suggestions? Is CLE spiral or mastery?

 

I think I have science covered, and I think we will finish our CHOW book before moving on to something new next year. I will be purchasing Barton for language arts, and dd will be taking ASL classes locally. What else am I forgetting? 

 

ETA: OOPS! DD is in 4th grade. Sorry!

[alisoncooks]

My 3rd grader (a strongly suspected dyslexic) is doing well with CLE math this year.  I won't lie:  the lessons can be lengthy.  But they are so gentle in their approach and all the review is built in.  New concepts are taught with baby steps.  I would definitely call it spiral.

 

Before CLE, we used BJU for 1st and 2nd (also bits of MiF).  My DD did pretty well with the mastery approach (she seems math-minded) but it was more than I could remember to schedule in facts practice and review.  I needed it built right in!  CLE has definitely filled that need for us.  That said, since my DD does well with facts, we skip the timed drills and flash cards most days. :o  There is quite a bit of practice within the lesson, IMO.

[aufan]

We are using CLE right now and really like it. Sometimes the lessons can be lengthy but I don't have a problem with just doing one or two of the same kind of problem and skipping the others since it all is constantly reviewed. Also if they are solid in something we don't do it every time it comes up in review. We also like the built in fact card review.

[lovinmomma]

My 3rd grader (a strongly suspected dyslexic) is doing well with CLE math this year.  I won't lie:  the lessons can be lengthy.  But they are so gentle in their approach and all the review is built in.  New concepts are taught with baby steps.  I would definitely call it spiral.

 

Before CLE, we used BJU for 1st and 2nd (also bits of MiF).  My DD did pretty well with the mastery approach (she seems math-minded) but it was more than I could remember to schedule in facts practice and review.  I needed it built right in!  CLE has definitely filled that need for us.  That said, since my DD does well with facts, we skip the timed drills and flash cards most days. :o  There is quite a bit of practice within the lesson, IMO.

 

That sounds like what she needs. Dd struggles with facts, however. She's very hands on, so I wonder if I could add in things to make it hands-on ish.

[AHASRADA]

Definitely look into Teaching Textbooks. It is spiral, topics introduced in small chunks and with built-in repetition. The lessons are presented on CD-ROM, with both an auditory and visual component. This means the student can work independently and only come to you with questions.

 

There is a workbook with all the lessons written out in case you are away from the computer or need to quickly glance back at a lesson, and it has all the problems, space to work them out, and an answer key. But, the computer-based aspect is the best because, not only does it present the lesson orally and visually at the same time, the student enters her answers to the problems on the screen, and the program automatically grades them! Then, if she gets a problem wrong, she can choose to watch a step-by-step walk through of how the problem should have been done correctly.

TT is truly a lifesaver for dyslexics and their teachers, because the audiovisual aspect removes the reading barrier from math instruction, and it frees the teacher from having to read the lessons aloud to the student to reach the same goal.

 

This will become more and more important as she gets older, wants and needs more independence, and yet higher level math texts can be so unwieldy with lots of tiny print and complicated words. TT goes all the way through pre-calculus.

 

They have placement tests and sample lessons on their website.

 

Good luck!

 

[OneStepAtATime]

TT is a good program.  It might work well for your child and you should probably look into it since it has helped many dyslexics.

 

But having used TT and CLE with 2 dyslexic kids, I highly recommend CLE.  The very tight spiral with constant review of all skills is terrific for my kids.  And I LOVE the targeted flash card system.  Flash cards did not work with my kids until CLE.  It has such a great way of doing flash cards.  But you really need to give your child the placement tests.  Don't just make assumptions as to where she should place.

 

DD is dyslexic (diagnosed) and has severe math deficits.  She has never been able to do her math facts.  I gave the placement tests for CLE starting all the way back at Level 100.  Wherever there was a problem I noted it for targeted instruction.  Testing showed that she made it into Level 300 but I still went back and did parts of Level 200 with her to solidify concepts and math facts since she had some errors and I knew she needed a better foundation.  It worked very well.  We covered all of 200 in about a month.  Then we moved through 300, again at a bit of an accelerated pace but still really working on solidifying concepts and math facts.  Working beautifully because of the very tight spiral and the targeted flash card review.

 

I would suggest, though, that you sit with her and work on each new concept first using a dry erase board, manipulatives, discussion, etc. together first to make certain she understands it and can do it well.  Help her really get it down solid before she does her problems in the workbook.  SOOOO helpful for solidifying concepts before tackling the problems in the workbook.  

 

For instance, with multiplication, when a new set is introduced the kids create arrays with manipulatives to show each problem and we discuss them.  We also do a lot more skip counting than it calls for in the workbooks.  The skip counting really helps.  And we watch school house rock and play math games that don't TEST but reinforce.  It is helping tremendously.  

 

I also made some other modifications that have helped (but the program itself is solid, IMHO, I just have kids with special challenges)  For instance, where they have you do speed drills in the back, I changed it.  I knew that the kids, because of their learning challenges, would never get through the problems in a minute or less and I wanted them to be encouraged, not discouraged.  I also wanted them to see that they were improving.  I modified the speed drills so they do them but we write down how long it took each time and chart that.  I cross out the 1 minute requirement.  It only made them hate trying.  Now they don't mind the drills and actually are excited because they CAN see improvement.  

 

And we do the flash cards using just one math fact quite a bit more intensely than CLE does.  In other words, we work on one math fact family over and over, at one point in the day, then review previous facts during another part of the day.  It is helping solidify the foundation and keep it solid.

 

Also, I found that both kids did better if I ran them through the multiplication facts with manipulatives, then on a dry erase by skip counting, so they had visual and auditory reinforcement, then moved them through the flash cards for the math fact being worked on that day using the multiplication side then I actually flipped them around and did the division side.  Doing division AND multiplication in the same lesson verbally and visually and kinesthetically has been a HUGE help here.  They are finally seeing the math patterns and they are sticking.  CLE does not do the division side at the same time but I highly recommend it.

 

DD loves that there are 10 small books per level, by the way.  Every time she finishes one it gives her a feeling of accomplishment.

 

And since there is a tight spiral review, once we have gone over a concept really well, they never lose it since it is reviewed frequently.  DD can get through the bulk of the lesson without needing my constant help anymore.  She loves that she can do so much of it completely independently.  That has boosted her confidence a huge amount.  DS does, too, but he is dysgraphic so I scribe for him for a lot of the lesson.  (DD did hit a snag with using rulers but that is her dyscalcuia issues not a ding against the program).

 

FWIW, TT did not work for either of my dyslexic children.  While they liked the lessons, they struggled with long-term retention and got really frustrated.  We ended up dropping TT.  CLE has worked much, much better here.  However, I know that others have done very well with it, and in fact it was a HUGE help for many.  If you go that route I would strongly urge you to have your child use the workbook so they aren't having to copy problems off the computer screen all the time. 

 

Good luck OP!

[OneStepAtATime]

Also, you might post over on the Learning Challenges board if you have any questions regarding Barton.  I would go ahead and start Barton NOW.  You could conceivably get her through Level 1 and start Level 2 before Christmas if the dyslexia issues aren't severe or coupled with other underlying issues.  Those are the two shortest levels by a long shot so are easier to get through but are also critical building blocks for reading, which she will need for math, too.  

 

Plan on continuing Barton even through the summer, even if it is only 3 days a week for 30 to 45 minutes a day or she may lose everything.  Like you said, she needs constant spiral, which most all dyslexics do.  It is because of the way their brains are structured and retrieve information.  Usually great at global thinking and outside the box problem solving.  Not so great with minutiae retrieval like rote memorizing math facts.

 

 If things go well she might make it into Level 4 by next year  (Level 4 is a bear and may take up to a year to complete but the other levels above that should go more quickly).  Plan on taking things fairly slowly through Level 4 and doing a lot of review and reinforcement with games and extra practice. 

 

The Spelling City cards and the games in the back of the TMs are really helpful and can break up a lesson so it isn't so boring (early levels can be boring but SOOOO useful for a dyslexic).  The spelling tests, extra practice pages and fluency drills on the Barton site are also really beneficial if she needs the extra help.

[Laura W.]

I have three children with learning differences - 1 with a math ld and 2 with dyslexia.  We use MathUSee, with Teaching Textbooks as a supplement.  I like MathUSee because of how it teaches one thing at a time, and builds step by step.  It is also multisensory, which is really good for kids who learn differently.  With the video lessons (short, once per week) and the rods you get experiences built into the program that engage all the senses.  I like the video lessons also because 1) the concept might be presented in a slightly different way, so if a child doesn't "get it" when I explain it, the lesson might make it clear (or vice versa) and 2) it adds even more repetition to the lesson, since they hear the lesson at least twice.  Repetition and review are a strong suit of MathUSee, because each lesson is followed by 6 worksheets - 3 that drill the new concept, and 3 that review previous concepts along with some drill of the new concept.

 

Teaching Textbooks has made a great supplement because it's engaging, with just the right amount of new material in each lesson, and has lots of review.  I see it as extra repetition in math - and that extra repetition is crucial for kids who learn differently.  But because it is a different scope and sequence, what happens is that my children are either 1) reviewing a concept taught in MathUSee or 2) being introduced to something not yet taught.

 

It is only my younger children who use both programs.  At those levels, lessons in each are short and sweet, so it is not a burden.  My older children only use 1 math program.  My oldest, who struggles with math, never understood algebra with Teaching Textbooks.  We finally ditched it and went with MathUSee Algebra 1, which she has found works much better.  The fact that she has 5 or 6 worksheets to reinforce each lesson is making a difference for her.  My second dd is also studying Algebra 1, but she is using Teaching Textbooks, and it is working well for her.

 

I also would encourage beginning the Barton Program.  It has been quite effective, especially with my child who was older (4th grade) when he started.

 

Blessings,

 

Laura

[Guest mom2bj]

I used Math-u-see for a couple of years with my dyslexic son.  It worked well, but he just could not remember basic math facts.  I contacted Susan Barton and she recommended "Touchmath".  We've been using this program for two months now, and it's been working extremely well for him.  It is multisensory and really explains math in a way my son understands.  I ordered the teacher training material (it's free) to get an idea of how the program works and how to teach it.  You can also download worksheets from their website.  Hope this helps.

[sweetpea3829]

My DD8 has diagnosed dyscalculia and a future rule-out on dyslexia.  (I believe she is dyslexic, but is pretty mild).  

 

Math is a very very difficult subject for her.  She understands almost none of it on a conceptual basis.  But..she is making significant strides with MUS.  It is gentle, mastery-based but there is a lot of spiral review.  She is doing very well with procedural math and is not that far behind in that regard.  Conceptually, she has yet to make any significant gains.  But that isn't MUS, that's her.  

 

I am using Singapore's Process Skills 1st level to help her with problem solving because, quite frankly, MUS really falls short in that area.  

 

I am also using online resources to continuously review concepts that she has learned but that MUS is no longer reviewing, or is not reviewing as often as she needs.  So basically, every single day, she has a printed worksheet that reviews a concept she has already "mastered."  When I am planning her lessons, I go down that list, one concept at a time.  

 

I don't generally speak highly of MUS for average or above math students....but for kiddos who are struggling with math, MUS really is a great fit.  

[sweetpea3829]

I used Math-u-see for a couple of years with my dyslexic son.  It worked well, but he just could not remember basic math facts.  I contacted Susan Barton and she recommended "Touchmath".  We've been using this program for two months now, and it's been working extremely well for him.  It is multisensory and really explains math in a way my son understands.  I ordered the teacher training material (it's free) to get an idea of how the program works and how to teach it.  You can also download worksheets from their website.  Hope this helps.

 

Touch Math really looks great.  I've had it recommended to me before, and have given it some serious thought...but had already invested fully in MUS (after already having invested in several other math curricula that did not work).  

 

But yeah, it looks great.  

[lovinmomma]

It sounds like I'm hearing Teaching Texbooks, CLE, and MUS as common helpful math curricula for dyslexics. I have looked briefly at touch math before, and I'll check that out again. I had thought about MUS, but I wasn't sure if it would be ok to start an older child in it?

 

As far as Barton, I wish I could start right away but I will have to wait until I can purchase it. Hopefully, in Jan/Feb I will be able to purchase both level one and two. :)

 

Thank you all so much! :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you checked around to see if anyone in your area has Math U See or Barton?  Perhaps you could borrow or rent the materials?  See if there is an education center nearby that could rent/lend you the materials?  Or maybe you could buy it used from someone?  Just make certain they have the tiles.

 

As for starting an older child in Math U See, is there a placement test?  My mother already owned the first couple of levels so I tried starting mine with the first one.  It didn't work for us, but I admit I didn't know all that was going on with the kids at that time.  First, they actually needed to go further back in some ways.  They needed basic subitization skills.  It was the piece that was missing, but was not something I even knew to work on or ask questions about.  I ended up using Ronit Bird's math materials, which really helped tremendously.  Also, though, Math U See looked SOOOO basic that the kids really fought me on using it.  It seemed babyish to them.  DD was technically in 6th and DS in 3rd at that point.  I stopped.  

 

But there are a LOT of people that have used MUS VERY successfully, even with older kids.  I think it is worth a look.

[lovinmomma]

Have you checked around to see if anyone in your area has Math U See or Barton?  Perhaps you could borrow or rent the materials?  See if there is an education center nearby that could rent/lend you the materials?  Or maybe you could buy it used from someone?  Just make certain they have the tiles.

 

As for starting an older child in Math U See, is there a placement test?  My mother already owned the first couple of levels so I tried starting mine with the first one.  It didn't work for us, but I admit I didn't know all that was going on with the kids at that time.  First, they actually needed to go further back in some ways.  They needed basic subitization skills.  It was the piece that was missing, but was not something I even knew to work on or ask questions about.  I ended up using Ronit Bird's math materials, which really helped tremendously.  Also, though, Math U See looked SOOOO basic that the kids really fought me on using it.  It seemed babyish to them.  DD was technically in 6th and DS in 3rd at that point.  I stopped.  

 

But there are a LOT of people that have used MUS VERY successfully, even with older kids.  I think it is worth a look.

I've tried to find Barton locally to purchase/borrow/rent, but I haven't had any luck. :( I've seen MUS being sold used locally. Math is really getting me, because it's very hard for dd. I

[Ellie]

Have you considered Spalding (or one of its spin-offs) instead of Barton? Many children with learning difficulties have done exceptionally well with Spalding.

[PeterPan]

For the op, we're plowing through Barton 1 and I hope to finish in the next two weeks.  I'll be selling it and you or anyone else from the boards is welcome to it, just write me.  No if it's actually dyslexia WRTR/SWR is not what you need, not if you're at the level of needing Barton 1.  Have you done the Barton pretest yet?  http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen  I STRONGLY advise you do the pretest now.  You could be waiting around, thinking Barton is going to solve your problems, and realize you need to do LIPS or something else first.

 

On the math, could I offer the $10 holding solution option?  Ronit Bird has ebooks for dot patterns, c-rods, and multiplication.  They're $6-10, easy to implement, and highly effective.  They're meant for dyslexics and dyscalculics and will be very hands-on, tactile.  No, TT is not going to work for actual math instruction.  Practice maybe, instruction probably not.  I've used it with my dd for a couple years now btw and appreciate it.  I'm just saying it's not going to bring that hands-on, tactile, exploratory you need.  Ronit Bird will and it's affordable.  Then, when your windfall comes in you can buy the other stuff.

 

[sixpence1978]

We have also had great success with CLE for my dyslexic in math.  Even though she gets really tired of it, the constant review is key for long-term retention.  She struggles heavily with memory, so math facts were a struggle.  Since I was taught TouchMath when I went to school, I just used what I remembered and added that to our math lessons.  You may be able to find a youtube video showing the method without having to buy the expensive curriculum.

 

I have heard that TT is good for a lot of dyslexics, but we decided it wasn't the best fit here after trying the sample lessons online.  There was too much to distract her from actually learning that math, especially the little math buddy in the top corner and all the sound effects.

 

I will say that we don't do EVERY problem in CLE.  When we first began, we did a majority of the problems.  Now that we are in our 3rd year of the program and she has grown so confident in her math, I cross off things so that she only has 1-2 types of each problem.  Still plenty of review and the lessons still take quite a chunk out of our day, but much more tolerable.  We also own the Process Skills book to help with problem solving skills, but haven't yet found a good way/time to work on it.

[lovinmomma]

I woulddefinitely be interested in the Barton. I just won't be able to purchase until I get my tax return. :( I will definitely check out these math workbooks! Thank you for the suggestion!

[lovinmomma]

Sorry. I'm on my phone. If that quote didn't show up my reply was to ohE.

[lovinmomma]

It's so hard not to feel discouraged at times using the virtual school.... both for dd and I. Her spelling test went horribly this week. This is the sentence that she wrote:

 

Somewar in the vally is the sadest monky.

 

And that's the only sentence that she remembered to capitalize the first letter of the sentence, and the only one that she remembered punctuation for. Sigh. Can't wait until I can afford Barton! :) lol 

 

x-post

[momto2Cs]

My dyslexic dd thrives with Math Mammoth.