Calculator for complicated long division...

[Heather in VA]

So here's the situation... My 11 year old is ADD. She also struggles with math. The math struggle has primarily come from two places - she was one of those kids who didn't start understanding math until she was older so she naturally was "behind" and because math requires analytical thinking and that hasn't "turned on" as quickly with her either. She doesn't officially have discalculia or anything like that but math has always caused stress and tears. She is FINALLY making terrific progress. She's using TT6. She knows her math facts, including her multiplication facts. She can do long multiplication with large numbers. I was terrified of long division because another one of her issues is organization. She's the kind of kid who naturally doesn't go in order. Normally a kid sees a page of questions and does 1, 2, 3... She doesn't have the sequential tendency so she wanders - focus is an issue. Long division only works if you are really methodical. But she is doing great. She can now do long division of a single digit divisor into any size dividend. Yesterday she told me for the first time... 'Mom - maybe I'm not stupid about math'. I cried. She is still exhausted when she's done with her lesson (we take a 20 minute break after math for her to recover) but she's doing it. Multi-digit divisors requires so much more. So much brute force just to figure out how many times something can be divided since they aren't math facts. It's going to exhaust her and I even more than that I don't want to distort the self-esteem we are finally starting to build with her.  The reality is that these days everyone has a calculator at all time and really wouldn't spend a lot of time doing a complicated long division problem on paper when they could whip out their phone so I am considering allowing the use of a calculator only for these more complicated problems. I sit right with her for all of her math so I would have complete control over which problems I would allow it's use. 

 

I'm looking for input on this. I wouldn't typically consider this but I need to balance what I consider ideal with the reality of what damage it might cause her to make her struggle at something I'm not convinced is a hill to die on. Thoughts for issues it could cause down the road? 

 

Thanks

[Farrar]

You know, it does require more. And I had a similar fear. But it wasn't that bad. Both my kids did fine with the bigger divisors. And it helped them see how they needed to use their estimation skills more. Basically I'd just keep going and not even bring up the calculator. Don't borrow trouble. See how it goes. Maybe this isn't possible with TT's computer format, but can you just assign fewer problems and take it slower, acknowledging that these just take longer and that's okay?

[regentrude]

 The reality is that these days everyone has a calculator at all time and really wouldn't spend a lot of time doing a complicated long division problem on paper when they could whip out their phone so I am considering allowing the use of a calculator only for these more complicated problems.

 

I'm looking for input on this. I wouldn't typically consider this but I need to balance what I consider ideal with the reality of what damage it might cause her to make her struggle at something I'm not convinced is a hill to die on. Thoughts for issues it could cause down the road? 

 

Issues down the road: polynomial division.

Calculators work fine when you have numbers - but not when you have symbols for variables. Polynomial division in algebra 2 is basically long division, but a calculator will be of no help, since you have no numbers to punch in.

[Heather in VA]

Issues down the road: polynomial division.

Calculators work fine when you have numbers - but not when you have symbols for variables. Polynomial division in algebra 2 is basically long division, but a calculator will be of no help, since you have no numbers to punch in.

 

I agree but I'm not sure how necessary a large number of the more brute force type will change the ability to understand this. I'm not suggesting abandoning long division all together. I guess I'm thinking back to my oldest who struggled with the harder long division but didn't have any problems with polynomial division. I think sometimes it's a combination of the fact that for a lot of kids manipulating variables has a different feel to it than numbers and by the time they get to Alg 2 they're thought process is much more mature. 

[Heather in VA]

You know, it does require more. And I had a similar fear. But it wasn't that bad. Both my kids did fine with the bigger divisors. And it helped them see how they needed to use their estimation skills more. Basically I'd just keep going and not even bring up the calculator. Don't borrow trouble. See how it goes. Maybe this isn't possible with TT's computer format, but can you just assign fewer problems and take it slower, acknowledging that these just take longer and that's okay?

 

Thanks - yea I'm definitely not going to pull the trigger yet but I'm just thinking it through. 

[deerforest]

Are you using graph paper? My DD is 2e with ADD inattentive, working memory and processing speed issues. Math was frustrating for her for a long time (and still is for random topics) because she got the concepts right away but struggled with output mostly in terms of sequencing and organization.

 

I found graph paper with 1/2" squares rather than the typical 1/4" and it has saved us. She can now work in the regular graph paper and blank paper but for new things I go back to the larger graph paper and it helps considerably.

 

She actually claimed to dislike multiplication but loved long division which completely surprised me! I was sure it was going to be a struggle with all the steps but she took to it without a problem. I kept explaining that she obviously understood multiplication if she were able to complete long division but she just oddly loves it!

[Heather in VA]

Are you using graph paper? My DD is 2e with ADD inattentive, working memory and processing speed issues. Math was frustrating for her for a long time (and still is for random topics) because she got the concepts right away but struggled with output mostly in terms of sequencing and organization.

 

 

YES!!! graph paper is our friend. She doesn't need it for long multiplication anymore but it's been a life saver for so many things. She uses a white board a lot as well for things she feels she needs to write bigger than paper allows. It's very odd that she's often much more organized and lined up on the white board. It seems like that would be harder, but she likes it. 

 

I, too, have been very surprised as to how well she's taken to long division. It may be that it will continue to go well. It's just that for the first time ever we have good math days pretty much every day. She's enjoying it and feeling good. I want to be prepared if this causes trouble because I'm just so happy to have it working. 

[Heather in VA]

My DD is 2e with ADD inattentive, working memory and processing speed issues. 

 

Adding another response to ask about processing speed issues - how do you determine this?  Sometimes she takes absolutely forever to do something I know she can do quickly but then I've always assumed it was the ADD causing her not to focus. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't have a phone with calculator.

Few things I've done to address this are giving fewer problems and allowing my kids to use a table.  Both worked well. 

 

I remember watching a girl at my kid's dance class doing her homework.  A page with 50 long division problems allowed to be solved with a calculator.  I guess it proved she could use a calculator.  But that whole thing seems silly to me, and why 50 problems?

 

 

[kiwik]

While many people do have access there are a lot of environments where they are not suitable. It is quicker to use a pencil than take of 2 pairs of gloves to enable you to use a calculator.

[EKS]

Teach her some tricks that make it easier and ease into the harder problems.  We found that working on a large whiteboard helped with attitudes.  Also, once she is able to sort of do the problems, give her one big, hairy division problem per day while you move on to other things in math.   

[kiana]

Teach her some tricks that make it easier and ease into the harder problems.  We found that working on a large whiteboard helped with attitudes.  Also, once she is able to sort of do the problems, give her one big, hairy division problem per day while you move on to other things in math.   

 

I especially like the bolded.

 

One big ugly problem per day is so much more manageable and yet will keep it fresh in her head. 

[boscopup]

I use math facts with those larger divisors. For example, if I'm dividing by 58, I will use 60 as my estimation, which means I'm basically dividing by 6. Estimation skills are very handy, and large divisors are a great way to practice those skills.

 

I agree with giving one big long division problem each day, just to give her practice and make it not such a big deal in the long run.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Teach her some tricks that make it easier and ease into the harder problems.  We found that working on a large whiteboard helped with attitudes.  Also, once she is able to sort of do the problems, give her one big, hairy division problem per day while you move on to other things in math.   

 

This is exactly what I do.  One hairy problem per day.  This is very effective and it doesn't take up too much time. 

[Hunter]

I used to only give my boys one long division problem a day.

 

Also, choosing not to obsess over MASTERY of long division THIS year, doesn't mean you are abandoning the topic for ALL of her education. You can choose to revisit long division each year, for as long as you think is beneficial for THAT year.