Going to pre algebra after relaxed math, recipe for disaster?

[Runningmom80]

Ds has a good grip of the 4 orders of operation. He does however, despise math. We are in between SM 3A & 3B. I decided to start the year with "fun math" instead of starting 3B. I'm having him finish up LOF elementary, he's in the middle of Icecream, so we don't have much left. He loves it though, so I'm considering doing other "living math" until he's ready for LOF pre algebra.

 

He's ahead, not profoundly so, but enough that I'm not worried about getting behind. I am concerned that we might miss something if I don't finish out SM elementary.

 

Any advice? My main objective at this point is to try to save him the same agony I had with math. If I can help him to enjoy it even a little bit, I will consider the year a success!

[8filltheheart]

How is he on fractions, decimals, percentages, and ratios?

[Runningmom80]

How is he on fractions, decimals, percentages, and ratios?

 

I just ordered LOF fractions.  He has the basics of fractions and decimals, but not really ratios.  I'm not saying he's ready for pre-A now, just that I am considering doing living math for the second 1/2 of elementary math.

[Dmmetler]

I think that if you go through LOF Fractions and decimals, and maybe Physics as well, he could probably move into AOPS PA. It will be a learning curve, definitely (my DD did SM through 5B and then LOF Fractions, Decimals, and PA 1 and 2-Physics wasn't out yet, and it was still a struggle), but he should have the background.

 

I would suggest providing a higher level problem solving component than LOF tends to provide-Beast Academy, Math competition practice, Challenge math, SM IP or CWP.

 

I don't think SM is the only path that can prepare your child for AOPS, and in fact, AOPS is very different. SM problem sets are a lot longer and more repetitive, and doesn't require explanation. AOPS has short problem sets, but they tend to be hard, very novel, and they want you to be able to explain WHY. It's just a different way of doing math.

 

 

 

[Runningmom80]

I think that if you go through LOF Fractions and decimals, and maybe Physics as well, he could probably move into AOPS PA. It will be a learning curve, definitely (my DD did SM through 5B and then LOF Fractions, Decimals, and PA 1 and 2-Physics wasn't out yet, and it was still a struggle), but he should have the background.

 

I would suggest providing a higher level problem solving component than LOF tends to provide-Beast Academy, Math competition practice, Challenge math, SM IP or CWP.

 

I don't think SM is the only path that can prepare your child for AOPS, and in fact, AOPS is very different. SM problem sets are a lot longer and more repetitive, and doesn't require explanation. AOPS has short problem sets, but they tend to be hard, very novel, and they want you to be able to explain WHY. It's just a different way of doing math.

 

This is good to know.

 

I wish beast was being produced faster. :glare:

[lewelma]

I've had to constantly shake it up for my younger.  He just needed variety to continue to like math. Basically, we used a different core program every 2 months or so, and I just made sure that we continued to cover new things and revise previous material.  We did not really do living math (not sure exactly what you are talking about doing), but did rotate mechanical understanding of things like fractions with fun investigations and challenging puzzles. For example, we would alternate 2 days investigations with 1 day fraction drill, etc.

It was really a grab bag of material, but in the end he came out at age 10 ready for MEP secondary year 8 (7th grade), and now we are moving forward with a single program.  The variety did give him many ways to see problems and allowed him to be comfortable with different wordings or set-ups that different programs use, but the big plus is that I dragged him out of dislike into enjoyment. 

 

We got through SM4B before we started this list, so you would need some lower level stuff too.

pizzazz math (free online - fun puzzles for drill)

Saxon 8/7 (a bit of this and a bit of that)

Jacobs Intro Algebra (first few chapters are preA, and very gentle)

Mathematics: A Human Endeavour by Jacobs (lots of investigations there - a good place to go for non-number based maths)

Discovering Mathematics 7A (way too much algebra)

Life of Fred: fractions and decimals

SM: challenging wordproblems

SM 5A and 5B (we spread this out over a number of years but did get through anything that was not covered in the other materials)

SM: intensive practice has puzzlers scattered throughout and in the back

AoPS preA: got buried on chapter 2

MEP primary - lots of puzzlers in there

 

I think I am forgetting a few.

 

But my point it is that you may want to switch to living math for a bit, but then you could also shake it up with multiple structured programs used concurrently.

 

Just a thought,

 

Ruth in NZ 

 

[Runningmom80]

That's a good idea. Thank you for all of those suggestions!

 

So you went through SM, but switched it up along the way. I get overwhelmed with all the SM books, I've been hesitant to add other things to it.

[kiana]

I don't think it's *bad*, but I'd be more inclined to go through something like BCM or the Power Basics Basic Math first in a diagnostic-prescriptive manner just to check for holes. If there are holes, you'll be glad you found them, and if there aren't, it should only take a couple of weeks to do all the chapter tests for those.

[lewelma]

That's a good idea. Thank you for all of those suggestions!

 

So you went through SM, but switched it up along the way. I get overwhelmed with all the SM books, I've been hesitant to add other things to it.

 

The reason it was not a nightmare for me was because I did not have a plan - at all.  There were no schedules or hopes of finishing this or that.  We simply worked on typically 2 programs at a time (one mechanical, one investigation/puzzler) until he got tired of it, and then we just moved on to something else.  We definitely came back to the same resources over and over during the 3 years. So it would go something like:

 

When DS got bored with SM, I would get out some puzzlers from MEP to work on and some Pizzazz game sheets.  We would alternate 2 days each, and after 2 weeks he would be ready to move on.  So I grabbed the LoF fractions book and he would work on that for 6 weeks and then get sick of it (with only 2/3rd done), so we would drop it and move to investigations in Mathematics: a human endeavour.  We would alternate these investigations with either 10 minutes/day of basic SM drill, or if he was more in the mood 1 or 2x a week of SM intensive practice word problems.  If I noticed that he was weak in something, like decimals, I would make sure to grab that topic.  Then after 6 weeks when he would get cranky again, I'd hand him the LoF book to finish, and then we would move to SM geometry mixed with basic number topics sprinkled in.  As the years moved on, I moved to harder books, AoPS and SM Discovering Mathematics both of which we rotated in and out of and mixed up with our first foray into MEP secondary.  We rotated through these more advanced books with small bites of continuing arithmetic from SM6 and Pizzazz games/drill.

 

I just did it on the fly (meaning no plan *at all*), but always with the goal of 1) learning new content, 2) reviewing old content, 3) trying to sneak in drill in boring rote arithmetic, and 4) building up his problem solving and persistence.  I had the books on my shelf, and he did his work in a notebook, so I just made sure to label each day's work with book and topic, and then I had a record of sorts that I could look through to see what was next.  I did not plan, rather I adapted to what each day gave me with the above goals always in my mind.  He worked to a set time rather than a set quantity of work, and that allowed me to be uncertain as to how much of each program was a realistic daily amount.  When the buzzer went off, we just closed the book, and picked it up the next day.

 

Yes, this was an incredibly odd approach, but we don't really seem to have any holes, at least I have not found any so far.  I did have to back track to MEP year 7 for probability because the year 8 material assumed knowledge he did not have, but that was not a problem, I just printing off that extra unit. Just last month we hit something in MEP, and ds said 'oh, I learned some of this in AoPS', so clearly the different resources left an impression in his mind.

 

So in June he settled on MEP because he likes the mastery approach but with a two week rotation of topics. He was finally ready to commit, and now the rotation is built in.  I make sure to do all the investigations and set the challenging problems as 'homework' so as to up the complexity of the program.  And so far so good.  It is perfect for ds because it directly leads to Cambridge A levels, which will be a challenging program for him to do in high school.  He is now excited by math, focused on learning what he needs to learn, and becoming much more independent.

 

So not exactly unschooling or living books, beats me what to call it, but it worked.  :001_smile:  When we started it was tears, and 'can'ts', and dread, so we have come a long way.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Runningmom80]

Thank you Ruth!

 

I've just realized, this is what I've been doing, inadvertently.

 

It's nice to hear from someone with a similar erratic trajectory that it does turn out ok in the end. :)

[Runningmom80]

I haven't even looked at algebra curriculum. My plan is to find a fun pre algebra when he's ready, I haven't thought much past that.

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son does not hate math, but it is not a favorite.  I would definitely go with it being the bottom of the list on the subjects.  He loves to learn, so nothing is really hated.  As such, he is not nearly as ahead in math as he is in some of his other subjects. Anyway, we use AoPS.  Contrary to popular belief, it is not just for kids who are way ahead in math or for kids who are really excited about math.  The reason my son does not like math is that he is not a linear algebra thinker.  Most of the materials out there are designed with linear, algebra type personalities.  My son is whole to parts, visual/spacial.  He LOVES geometry.  When I realized this, I decided that AoPS was one of the few routes we could go that allowed Ds to think about the math however worked for him.  He normally goes about the problems from a very different angle than the book, then we talk about how the book does it, and we work on "translating" from my son's process to the books process so that Ds really can cement the concepts.  It is also important since most all professions require both a person who thinks in Algebra and a person who thinks in Geometry.

 

I would encourage you to look at how your son thinks about math.  This could be the reason that he is not enthused about learning it.  It might be "hard" only because he is trying to force his brain into thinking in a way that is high unnatrual for him.  He honestly might just think math is annoying, but most of the kids I have taught think that because there is some actual event which has given them the idea that they think incorrectly.

[Grover]

so far we've done Miquon, Life of Fred (in Physics now - started with Apples) and Kahn (completing each grade level map from 3rd - 8th + arithmetic, and prealgebra).  For fun we also used Dreambox, Pizzaz and other similar sheets, and for basic facts we used xtramath.  We played with Hands on Equations and other bits and pieces.  I had him do the 6th grade word problems book from Kumon too.  He started in AOPS prealgebra about a month ago and is moving through it at a frightening clip - it makes him think, but he can do it. 

 

I don't think there is a 'right' path, just hold on tight and enjoy the rollercoaster ride!

 

[Runningmom80]

Thank you for all of the replies.

 

I'm just going to keep winging it. :)

[MamaSprout]

This is a BTDT ramble. Use what parts you find useful. Ignore the rest.

 

We got bogged down in Singapore about the same time. It was just boring, really. As it was, we floundered around for a while and ended up back at Singapore. I think when it came down to it, she doesn't like arithmetic. Who does?

 

If I had it to do over, I would keep going in Singapore or pick another spine for math with intent on finishing up an elementary series. However, I'd do maybe 1/2 the problems in the spine curriculum and only do spine math 3 days a week (M, W, Th) and do a fun math on Wednesday and Friday. Which is what we ended up doing, but lost a year fiddling around.

 

Our fun math was AoPS Alcumus, Zacarro Elementary Challenge Math, a MOEMs book, DragonBox apps, set theory from a Dolciani New Edition PreA book and Logic Liftoff.

 

The reason I would do this is because my DD was getting very used to me switching math curriculum because she "hated" whatever we were using, or needed to mix things up or whatever. The issue really wasn't math, it was getting her to stop complaining about math (and becoming automatic on her math facts. Speed has improved her opinion of arithmetic). I do make sure there are lots of interesting math books around from the library.

 

ETA: We never did do Singapore 3. We jumped back in and did the IP for 3b, moved on to 4 Standards (every problem on every page), and did 75% of the problems in 5 a/b.)

 

Another option might be to look at Derek Owens PreA, and do it as sort of a PrePreAlgebra, alternating it with fun math and CWP type books.

HTH