Ever Had This Happen at a Real Estate Closing?

[PrairieSong]

We've bumped into the seller in a waiting room, but never closed the deal in the same room with them. They were either scheduled right before or right after us.

[nukeswife]

That must be specific to your area in TN but it's definitely not TN law. We're in TN, and the sellers were in the room with us.

Never said it was the law, just stating what happened for us.  I'm guessing it's because we weren't using the same lawyer for closing, so they went to theirs and we went to ours.  

 

I also don't really see a point in them all being at the same table as there is often not an actual check, since it is often done electronically.

[TranquilMind]

Never said it was the law, just stating what happened for us.  I'm guessing it's because we weren't using the same lawyer for closing, so they went to theirs and we went to ours.  

 

I also don't really see a point in them all being at the same table as there is often not an actual check, since it is often done electronically.

The point to me is that I can verify funds are in my possession before handing over access to the house, keys and remotes. 

[Mom in High Heels]

That must be specific to your area in TN but it's definitely not TN law. We're in TN, and the sellers were in the room with us.

 

TN is where I sold real estate, and like I said that one was the only closing where the sellers and buyers weren't in the same room.  Now, I did have a few closings where the buyer was out of state, and some where the closings were at separate times, simply because the closing company couldn't find a time that worked for both parties.  They were all civil closings.  All the other closings were in the same room at the same time.  The banks always had the checks sent to the closing company before the actual closing-sign-your-name-a-millioon-times sit down happened.  After everything was signed, the sellers were given their checks, keys were passed over to the buyer, and everyone went on their merry little way.  The buyers and sellers usually even shook hands.  It was all so easy and everyone walked away happy.

[QueenCat]

TN is where I sold real estate, and like I said that one was the only closing where the sellers and buyers weren't in the same room.  Now, I did have a few closings where the buyer was out of state, and some where the closings were at separate times, simply because the closing company couldn't find a time that worked for both parties.  They were all civil closings.  All the other closings were in the same room at the same time.  The banks always had the checks sent to the closing company before the actual closing-sign-your-name-a-millioon-times sit down happened.  After everything was signed, the sellers were given their checks, keys were passed over to the buyer, and everyone went on their merry little way.  The buyers and sellers usually even shook hands.  It was all so easy and everyone walked away happy.

 

I'm thinking you also probably sold in the same county I'm in, based on prior conversations :)

[QueenCat]

Never said it was the law, just stating what happened for us.  I'm guessing it's because we weren't using the same lawyer for closing, so they went to theirs and we went to ours.  

 

I also don't really see a point in them all being at the same table as there is often not an actual check, since it is often done electronically.

 

We weren't given a choice on the lawyer/title company. We just showed up. Same lawyer for both sides, but different real estate agents. I can't remember if the seller got a check at closing or not. They actually had 24 hours to vacate after closing so we didn't get keys until the next night. That wasn't the norm but there were some issues on their end, so we gave them the time in exchange for some more money towards closing.

[TranquilMind]

TN is where I sold real estate, and like I said that one was the only closing where the sellers and buyers weren't in the same room.  Now, I did have a few closings where the buyer was out of state, and some where the closings were at separate times, simply because the closing company couldn't find a time that worked for both parties.  They were all civil closings.  All the other closings were in the same room at the same time.  The banks always had the checks sent to the closing company before the actual closing-sign-your-name-a-millioon-times sit down happened.  After everything was signed, the sellers were given their checks, keys were passed over to the buyer, and everyone went on their merry little way.  The buyers and sellers usually even shook hands.  It was all so easy and everyone walked away happy.

That is very typical of a normal transaction here, and is indeed a description of every closing I have been involved with in the past 25 years. 

[TranquilMind]

The point to me is that I can verify funds are in my possession before handing over access to the house, keys and remotes. 

The internet definitely has its awesome side.  I was able to verify funds from my cell phone in just a few minutes.  But I made it excruciatingly clear prior to closing that this is exactly the condition upon which I release keys and remotes, and I was dealing with an extremely competent closer at the Title company.  So it all worked out. 

[StephanieZ]

Over 20 years, I've bought four homes and one commercial property (with another residence on it) and I've sold three of those homes. I have never once been in the room for closing with the other parties or their agents, with the exception of the commercial property purchase which was associated with a more substantial purchase of a business -- so there were gobs of lawyers in the room, lol. Closings have been held long distance (with FedExed documents in a couple cases -- one as buyer, two as seller) and in the other closings, we were at our own attorney's office (or title company in the case of one new construction purchase). Never met the buyers or sellers in ANY of the closings except the commercial property (which has an associated business). 

[kitten18]

The point to me is that I can verify funds are in my possession before handing over access to the house, keys and remotes. 

We have never given/been given possession of the house the day of the closing, it has always been the next day or a few days later.

[Happy]

The point to me is that I can verify funds are in my possession before handing over access to the house, keys and remotes. 

 

These days most of the funds are transferred electronically. Much, much, much smoother. From time to time a buyer brings in a cashier's check for part of the funds, but that's more and more rare. Wire transfers are the new norm.

 

[nukeswife]

The point to me is that I can verify funds are in my possession before handing over access to the house, keys and remotes. 

 

We didn't get the keys at closing.  Later on that afternoon, our lawyer verified with theirs that the funds had been turned over and then our Agent got the key out of the lock box and put it under the gnome on the front steps for us to pick up after dinner.  The other key and garage remotes were left on the kitchen counter.  

 

[Mom23Boys]

We have bought 4 houses and sold 2 (one was a lawsuit over a falsified termite report, so the sale was rescinded).

 

Every time we have been in the same room as the person who we were dealing with. So when we sold a house, we were in the same room with our buyers. Later that day (usually, once was a Friday and then a Monday), we meet with the owners of the house we were buying and completed that transaction.

 

The only cases I have ever heard of that weren't like ours was when the seller of the house had already moved and was out of state.

 

ETA: We got/gave the keys based on our contract. We only bought one currently occupied house and they had 24 hours to move after closing. When we sold our houses, we had 48 hours to get out, but both times finished early and called our buyers to give them access to the house before the 48 hours was up.

 

I am in Louisiana if it makes a difference.

[TranquilMind]

These days most of the funds are transferred electronically. Much, much, much smoother. From time to time a buyer brings in a cashier's check for part of the funds, but that's more and more rare. Wire transfers are the new norm.

 

I was fine with the Cashier's Check days too....good as cash funds.  ;)

[StephanieZ]

We weren't given a choice on the lawyer/title company. We just showed up. Same lawyer for both sides, but different real estate agents. I can't remember if the seller got a check at closing or not. They actually had 24 hours to vacate after closing so we didn't get keys until the next night. That wasn't the norm but there were some issues on their end, so we gave them the time in exchange for some more money towards closing.

 

You always have the right to choose your own lawyer (on either side) and your own title insurance company (on the buyer side). We *always* use our own lawyer for real estate closings. It's way too big a transaction not to have someone representing *your* interests. 

[vonfirmath]

The point to me is that I can verify funds are in my possession before handing over access to the house, keys and remotes. 

 

That's what the title company is for. You hand over keys to the company and they don't hand it over to the buyer until funding is verified complete and accomplished.

 

Otherwise ou get them back. They are just a holding company.

[TranquilMind]

That's what the title company is for. You hand over keys to the company and they don't hand it over to the buyer until funding is verified complete and accomplished.

 

Otherwise ou get them back. They are just a holding company.

That's what I am for, though I'm well aware of the point of a Title Company.  If you want something done right, do it yourself (my dad speaking, and I still hear it after 35 years).  The Title Company officer, who was amazingly competent, by the way, was happy to let me verify everything.  The mark of a true professional. 

 

 

I always keep track of every part of the transaction and do not entrust that to others.

 

Occupational hazard.  ;)

[TranquilMind]

You always have the right to choose your own lawyer (on either side) and your own title insurance company (on the buyer side). We *always* use our own lawyer for real estate closings. It's way too big a transaction not to have someone representing *your* interests. 

I'm surprised that more people don't use Attorneys here, but it is not customary, oddly. 

 

Agents are not permitted to draft provisions, but merely permitted to fill out forms.  But you should see some of the stuff they write, in both Purchase Agreements and especially Inspection responses.  Completely unlimited nonsense. (Example:  Seller will repair hole in kitchen. (Where?  What hole?  What is the size? Where is the exact location?  With what material?  Who shall do the work?  Replacement drywall or flooring (or whatever it was) or finishing included?)  This is why Buyers should fix things to their own specifications, absent clearly defined issues, such as "Main drain between house and street shall be snaked by a qualified drain cleaning company or plumber until drain inside (lowest drain of house) flows freely." or something simply like that.    Otherwise, Buyer can come back and say, "You didn't repair the hole, as agreed." when he finds or makes another hole when pushing his refrigerator into place!  Or in our drain example, come back to complain that the issue was never  really resolved when another drain backs up because their kid put a truck down the toilet. 

 

 No one in his right mind - or should I say, no one who understands legal documents - should ever sign some of this stuff.  The states who use attorneys to review the documents have got it right, in this instance. 

 

Anyway, just one of my personal rants lately. 

[StephanieZ]

I'm surprised that more people don't use Attorneys here, but it is not customary, oddly. 

 

Agents are not permitted to draft provisions, but merely permitted to fill out forms.  But you should see some of the stuff they write, in both Purchase Agreements and especially Inspection responses.  Completely unlimited nonsense. (Example:  Seller will repair hole in kitchen. (Where?  What hole?  What is the size? Where is the exact location?  With what material?  Who shall do the work?  Replacement drywall or flooring (or whatever it was) or finishing included?)  This is why Buyers should fix things to their own specifications, absent clearly defined issues, such as "Main drain between house and street shall be snaked by a qualified drain cleaning company or plumber until drain inside (lowest drain of house) flows freely." or something simply like that.    Otherwise, Buyer can come back and say, "You didn't repair the hole, as agreed." when he finds or makes another hole when pushing his refrigerator into place!  Or in our drain example, come back to complain that the issue was never  really resolved when another drain backs up because their kid put a truck down the toilet. 

 

 No one in his right mind - or should I say, no one who understands legal documents - should ever sign some of this stuff.  The states who use attorneys to review the documents have got it right, in this instance. 

 

Anyway, just one of my personal rants lately. 

I agree completely. I have negotiated at least a dozen real estate contracts, since some of our house sales required quite a few contract attempts before making a lasting deal. I have, without exception, been appalled at the ridiculous inability of agents to draft or negotiate reasonable contracts. I've done all the negotiating and drafting myself, with an attorney always reviewing anything that was non-standard and/or otherwise not straightforward. No one should ever rely on an agent's or realtor's ability to draft or negotiate a contract! If you aren't comfortable reading and drafting basic legalese in a standard sales contract, you really MUST use an attorney from step 1. Not only are relators fairly inept at understanding and drafting legalese, they are also NOT looking out for your interests, never when you are the buyer, and even not as the seller, no matter their fiduciary duty to the seller. They are motivated to close a sale, any sale, and a few thousand dollars +/- to you is not significant to them, as their 3% is not significantly impacted by a few thousand in sales price. They are motivated to close any sale as quickly as possible with as little complication as possible. When you are the buyer or seller, your interests do NOT equal the interests of any agent unless you are similarly motivated to simply sell or buy as quickly as possible for any price (which I would imagine is almost never your actual interest).

[OnTheBrink]

When EX and I bought our house, we definitely met the sellers because they wouldn't leave for the second showing. The wife was clearly unhappy with the move and she sat defiantly in the family room watching Wheel of Fortune while we had our second viewing. We couldn't speak openly with the agent because they would have heard every conversation. It was awkward, to say the least. 

 

They asked if they could keep their belongings in the garage and pick them up a week after closing, and our taking possession of the house. We said no. We had a 45 day escrow; they had plenty of time to move or make arrangements for their things. Besides, how were we supposed to unload our things with the garage packed with theirs? And, what if something of theirs broke, or went missing? Nope, I didn't want the liability or responsibility for their stupid items. 

 

So, one hour before closing, we go to do a final walk-through and they're still loading up. They backed into the basketball hoop and broke it and made no offer to replace it (it was cemented into the ground), and the wife announced they were leaving us a present: a rusted, broken gas grill they were too lazy to disposed of or take with them. 

 

At closing, the wife sat there shooting darts at us with her eyes (I still don't know what her actual problem was), and once everything was signed, we got a check for $1,800, the house keys and the garage door opener. They got their check and we all went home. 

 

During the signing of my current house, the one I bought CFD, the seller and I were both there for signing and he made a complete ass of himself. He was mad that he had to wait for Monday for his check (because of the CFD, the sale was handled as a refi, so I had 3 days to back out if I wanted). He asked several times why he couldn't get his check that day, said he'd never had to wait for a check before and made it clear he was not happy. The mortgage guy explained to him several times how this worked and that he had to wait. Finally, he signed the papers and left. Then he came back to AGAIN complain about waiting for his check. Then he left. Then he came back AGAIN to make asinine jokes about having to wait. Then he left. Then he came back ONCE MORE to ask what time the bank opened so he could get his check. Finally, the mortgage guy said, "Mr. Donkey, I'll have your check waiting in the drive through window, which opens at 9am. You may drive through and get it then!" Then he left. And stayed gone!

 

After these experiences, I think I like the concept of the sellers and buyers not meeting!

[Happy]

I agree completely. I have negotiated at least a dozen real estate contracts, since some of our house sales required quite a few contract attempts before making a lasting deal. I have, without exception, been appalled at the ridiculous inability of agents to draft or negotiate reasonable contracts. I've done all the negotiating and drafting myself, with an attorney always reviewing anything that was non-standard and/or otherwise not straightforward. No one should ever rely on an agent's or realtor's ability to draft or negotiate a contract! If you aren't comfortable reading and drafting basic legalese in a standard sales contract, you really MUST use an attorney from step 1. Not only are relators fairly inept at understanding and drafting legalese, they are also NOT looking out for your interests, never when you are the buyer, and even not as the seller, no matter their fiduciary duty to the seller. They are motivated to close a sale, any sale, and a few thousand dollars +/- to you is not significant to them, as their 3% is not significantly impacted by a few thousand in sales price. They are motivated to close any sale as quickly as possible with as little complication as possible. When you are the buyer or seller, your interests do NOT equal the interests of any agent unless you are similarly motivated to simply sell or buy as quickly as possible for any price (which I would imagine is almost never your actual interest).

 

Most of my clients have to have me explain the contract to them....legalese is not everyone's language of choice. I always recommend they consult an attorney if they need further information or have concerns. As an agent I can not make changes to the contract--I'm not a lawyer. My client can, if they wish, but not me. The language I do put into specific blanks concerning certain details must be concrete and factual--or my broker blows a gasket.  :) 

 

I've mentioned in other RE threads...not all agents are money hungry grunts any more than any other employed person. Most of the people in the world have to work to earn a few dollars to pay their mortgage, groceries, and bills.  I've helped people buy and sell homes from 50,000 up through 700,000+...I do my dead level best to represent them and their interests to the best of my ability (granted, I'm not perfect.) I've been known to help the 50K guy more than the 700K gal because he knew less about how all this worked. A commission check is not the first and foremost thing in my mind. It really truly isn't. I love my work--it's a blessing to get paid for something I enjoy so much.

 

I realize this will not change your mind or attitude about RE agents, but I wish you happiness and good fortune in dealing with any in the future.

 

 

[ChristyB in TN]

I'm surprised that more people don't use Attorneys here, but it is not customary, oddly.

 

Agents are not permitted to draft provisions, but merely permitted to fill out forms. But you should see some of the stuff they write, in both Purchase Agreements and especially Inspection responses. Completely unlimited nonsense. (Example: Seller will repair hole in kitchen. (Where? What hole? What is the size? Where is the exact location? With what material? Who shall do the work? Replacement drywall or flooring (or whatever it was) or finishing included?) This is why Buyers should fix things to their own specifications, absent clearly defined issues, such as "Main drain between house and street shall be snaked by a qualified drain cleaning company or plumber until drain inside (lowest drain of house) flows freely." or something simply like that. Otherwise, Buyer can come back and say, "You didn't repair the hole, as agreed." when he finds or makes another hole when pushing his refrigerator into place! Or in our drain example, come back to complain that the issue was never really resolved when another drain backs up because their kid put a truck down the toilet.

 

No one in his right mind - or should I say, no one who understands legal documents - should ever sign some of this stuff. The states who use attorneys to review the documents have got it right, in this instance.

 

Anyway, just one of my personal rants lately.

I simply can't imagine why the agent didn't want to close with you in the room. That's a big old broad brush painting the profession.

[StephanieZ]

Most of my clients have to have me explain the contract to them....legalese is not everyone's language of choice. I always recommend they consult an attorney if they need further information or have concerns. As an agent I can not make changes to the contract--I'm not a lawyer. My client can, if they wish, but not me. The language I do put into specific blanks concerning certain details must be concrete and factual--or my broker blows a gasket.  :)

 

I've mentioned in other RE threads...not all agents are money hungry grunts any more than any other employed person. Most of the people in the world have to work to earn a few dollars to pay their mortgage, groceries, and bills.  I've helped people buy and sell homes from 50,000 up through 700,000+...I do my dead level best to represent them and their interests to the best of my ability (granted, I'm not perfect.) I've been known to help the 50K guy more than the 700K gal because he knew less about how all this worked. A commission check is not the first and foremost thing in my mind. It really truly isn't. I love my work--it's a blessing to get paid for something I enjoy so much.

 

I realize this will not change your mind or attitude about RE agents, but I wish you happiness and good fortune in dealing with any in the future.

 

I apologize for my implication that RE agents are not ethical. That was not my intention. My intention was to communicate that they are not (typically) particularly savvy in negotiating or drafting contracts, and that an attorney is the person who can do that best for you if you can't do it confidently yourself. Your point that the RE agents can't change the standard contract language is excellent; I didn't know that, but it makes perfect sense. 

 

I certainly don't think that RE agents are all scummy money grubbers! Not one I've dealt with has striked me as such! However, I think it is always important to understand the motivators of the people you are negotiating and working with. Just like car salesmen are not all money grubbers, but they are (mostly) all motivated to sell you a car from their dealership. If you walk into a BMW dealership looking for a car, they aren't going to advise you that you'd be better off buying a 25k KIA .. . no, they are going to (generally) work hard to close a deal on one of the BMWs in their lot. That doesn't make them scum bags, but they make their living selling you BMWs, not KIAs, and not suggesting a great repair shop to you that could help you eek out a couple more years from your aging car . . .

[TranquilMind]

I simply can't imagine why the agent didn't want to close with you in the room. That's a big old broad brush painting the profession.

I merely said they are not qualified to draft provisions, and that I have seen ridiculously unlimited provisions even in recent sales.  That's just factual.

I know there are good ones out there that really do their best, as I said upthread. Personally, I have met very few that understand legalese, as Happy put it.