Crash and Burn or How Not to Homeschool

[rwjx2khsmj]

Seriously, last year with my dd15 was a mess. She is a wonderful, terrible child who I am tired of battling. I want joy and purposeful forward motion in her education. Is that too much to ask?

 

Given that she is no where near completing most of the work from last year, and this year is coming on like a locomotive, what do you suggest?

 

She's perfectly capable of the work. She just has this incredible inertia and overwhelming apathy that all my enthusiasm, cajoling, threats and begging have not cracked. I am feeling annoyed and helpless about the situation. Advice, insight, support, and fresh perspective are definitely needed.

[Barbara H]

It is frustrating and good to think of new ideas as you approach a new year. More detail about what is happening may lead to more ideas. Is the work she is going just for you - are there outside classes or tutors?  Is she getting distracted by stuff online or is she off task?  How often are you checking in on progress and is there any consequence if she isn't on track?

[rwjx2khsmj]

It is frustrating and good to think of new ideas as you approach a new year. More detail about what is happening may lead to more ideas. Is the work she is going just for you - are there outside classes or tutors? Is she getting distracted by stuff online or is she off task? How often are you checking in on progress and is there any consequence if she isn't on track?

Great questions! Thanks for the help.

 

The work is for me. Once a week she participates in a speech class and a co-op. Those are her only regular social activities.

 

She's off task. The only class that required a computer was biology and she'd rather poke needles in her eyes than do that class.

 

The failure here is mine. I started off checking work daily. With the reading required and the lack of output in several of her courses, she exaggerated progress and I believed her. She then made an excellent case for more independence and weekly check ins. In January we realized that wasn't working. I printed out a list of what was required of her to successfully complete the grade level along with a chart for her to track her progress. I continued to check weekly but there was less and less getting done. I feel as if we've taken away everything except her bed and time with family. Nothing seems to inspire or motivate her.

 

ETA: At her request she's seeing a counselor. No medication has been recommended, nor has the counselor given us information that leads us to believe there are other issues requiring our intervention.

[Wildiris]

Motivation needs to come from your DD not you. What does your DD want to do after high school? She is going to butt heads with you if she has no direction. She can have this power struggle with you over school and the years will slip by. Maybe she needs to volunteer or work to appreciate an education.

[rwjx2khsmj]

Dd says she wants to be a writer. She writes but rarely shares. She shows no interest in increasing her skill or interacting about her writing. I agree the motivation needs to come from her. Here lies the rub. How do you motivate someone to be motivated?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Great questions! Thanks for the help.

 

The work is for me. Once a week she participates in a speech class and a co-op. Those are her only regular social activities.

 

She's off task. The only class that required a computer was biology and she'd rather poke needles in her eyes than do that class.

 

The failure here is mine. I started off checking work daily. With the reading required and the lack of output in several of her courses, she exaggerated progress and I believed her. She then made an excellent case for more independence and weekly check ins. In January we realized that wasn't working. I printed out a list of what was required of her to successfully complete the grade level along with a chart for her to track her progress. I continued to check weekly but there was less and less getting done. I feel as if we've taken away everything except her bed and time with family. Nothing seems to inspire or motivate her.

 

ETA: At her request she's seeing a counselor. No medication has been recommended, nor has the counselor given us information that leads us to believe there are other issues requiring our intervention.

 

A few thoughts from another mom of teens:

 

How is taking away everything but her bed and family supposed to inspire or motivate her? I don't see the connection.

Why did she request a counselor?

Does she want more social opportunities than two classes? Does she have friends?

What happens if you sit at the kitchen table with her while she works, sharing mugs of coffee and interacting, on a daily basis?

 

[regentrude]

 I printed out a list of what was required of her to successfully complete the grade level along with a chart for her to track her progress. I continued to check weekly but there was less and less getting done. I feel as if we've taken away everything except her bed and time with family. Nothing seems to inspire or motivate her.

 

I think in some cases, teens may require  more direct parental involvement supervision than preteens.

If my child can not be trusted to work independently, I require that work be done in my presence, so that I can redirect and keep the student on task. It is a huge inconvenience, but sometimes the only measure that will make sure stuff gets done. I do not think that "taking away" things is terribly motivating; it would never work with my kids.

How does it go if you sit next to her when she works? If you are interacting while she works? My first try would be to be more involved and hands-on to overcome the slump.

At this point, if attempts to motivate and inspire have failed, I would concentrate on simply getting work done, even if uninspired/unmotivated. It would be lovely if she liked school work, but reality is that many kids don't; so instead of waiting for motivation to materialize, I'd ensure completion. If needed, by tomato staking.

 

ETA: Why is she seeing a counselor? I am a bit concerned that she has so little social interaction with people outside the family. I would try to create more opportunities and if necessary enforce interaction, maybe by joining an organization or volunteer activity together - but this may be an issue separate from schooling.

[bobbeym]

I understand what you're dealing with.  I went through the same thing with DS at 15/16 and 10th grade.  A lot of the failure was mine. I thought he was staying on task b/c he said he was, so I slacked off on my part and we both suffered for it.  The only thing we could do was just keep plugging away while making the conscious effort to stay on track and make sure the necessities were done.  We've only just last week finished 10th grade and that was only b/c I gave up the battle of trying to teach DS poetry.  I'd rather he learn to enjoy it on his own than deal with arguing over subjective answers in a study guide.

 

I did have to restructure how school will go this coming year though.  I've shifted my own schedule around to be hands-on 4 nights a week for 1-on-1 work. Assignments will be assigned during that time and due before our next "class" date.  Online class time is now in the late evening, with a midnight bedtime and a 9 am wake up.  I think between the time shift to do school while he's more awake and alert and both parents are home will be effective. At least I hope it will.

 

ETA:  DS participates in a homeschool choir program that meets weekly and our local support group that meets 2-3 times a month.  He's also active in our church's youth group and student leadership program.  For now, senior year is tentatively planned to be DE at the local community college followed by Bible college.  School has become a "get it done" factor with focus specifically on writing and analyzing since those are the skills he'll need most as a future youth pastor.

[73349]

Does she know your graduation requirements? Is she going to be applying for college? Maybe now would be a good time to gather some brochures from schools that offer a BFA in writing and see what it will take to get in.

[rwjx2khsmj]

A few thoughts from another mom of teens:

 

How is taking away everything but her bed and family supposed to inspire or motivate her? I don't see the connection.

 

Encouraging, supporting, setting goals, etc. haven't worked either. The thought was she would only gets good stuff after she completes the required stuff. She doesn't care enough about the good stuff to complete the required stuff.

 

Why did she request a counselor?

 

The counselor is for an issue that is hers not mine so I really can't share that information.

 

Does she want more social opportunities than two classes?

 

She has been given the option of going to public school, private school, community college, etc. She's declined all. She enjoys the social time she has but doesn't seek any other.

 

Does she have friends?

 

Yes, a small group and severAl individuals.

 

What happens if you sit at the kitchen table with her while she works, sharing mugs of coffee and interacting, on a daily basis?

 

She is happy to share the time and interact. When work is required none gets done. Usually she claims she can't work because there is too much noise, she's uncomfortable, etc

 

Regenerative, I think I answered most of your questions above.

 

I feel so stupid to ask, but I really am at a loss. How do you keep a student on task who simply refuses. What then? I'm off to look up tomato staking.

 

I understand what you're dealing with. I went through the same thing with DS at 15/16 and 10th grade. A lot of the failure was mine. I thought he was staying on task b/c he said he was, so I slacked off on my part and we both suffered for it. The only thing we could do was just keep plugging away while making the conscious effort to stay on track and make sure the necessities were done....

I did have to restructure how school will go this coming year though. I've shifted my own schedule around to be hands-on 4 nights a week for 1-on-1 work. Assignments will be assigned during that time and due before our next "class" date. Online class time is now in the late evening, with a midnight bedtime and a 9 am wake up. I think between the time shift to do school while he's more awake and alert and both parents are home will be effective. At least I hope it will.

 

 

Thanks so much for the encouragement. I will think about how we could reorganize our time. How did you get your dd to understand the need to keep plugging along?

 

Does she know your graduation requirements? Is she going to be applying for college? Maybe now would be a good time to gather some brochures from schools that offer a BFA in writing and see what it will take to get in.

Yes, she does know what she needs to complete to graduate. I think the idea of graduating is not real to her yet. Great idea about garthering the brochures. She is interested in going into the military.

[Wildiris]

Encourage going to college. Go look at some local colleges. Talking with some military recruiters in an informal setting might be a good motivational start so long as she does all the talking and you hang in the background. 

 

One of the reasons I found an private, online school for my DD is she needed to be responsible for her schooling. I keep my distance, and even when I ask, "How's it going?" she bristles. She does not want to be micro-managed. She pushes deadlines to the 11th hour, yet she gets it done because she wants to go to college. The school has clear guidelines and expectations to complete classes. This separation, going to an online school, lets me just be a mom and not a teacher too. It is much better for our relationship, I think she is getting a better education, and I know she will succeed when she gets to college.

 

[Laura Corin]

What worked for Calvin when he was in a slump was having a goal to aim at.  It had to be his goal, not mine.  Although I don't personally think that you need to study Creative Writing in order to be a writer, perhaps she needs a goal of getting into a writing course.  Or studying literature.  Or something.

 

It made a big difference to Calvin when he started to visit universities.  He started to be able to imagine himself taking the next step and working towards it.  It did help him very much, however, that he had hard-working peers who were working towards similar goals - the first university visit he took was with two school friends.

 

L

[bobbeym]

Thanks so much for the encouragement. I will think about how we could reorganize our time. How did you get your dd to understand the need to keep plugging along?

 

Yes, she does know what she needs to complete to graduate. I think the idea of graduating is not real to her yet. Great idea about garthering the brochures. She is interested in going into the military.

 

You're welcome, RWJ.   The bolded is what helped.  

 

I realized I had to find a way to get DS to understand why it was important to me that he focus on XYZ.  We sat down and talked about how he feels called to be a youth pastor and what skills would he would need to be successful. I made comparisons to what he sees his own youth pastor do to help him understand.  Then we talked about how he could apply that to his classes right now, and what I could do to help him achieve his goals. Once we attended an information session for the Bible college he wants to attend and looked into the graduation requirements, it became tangible. 

[Barbara H]

I wish I had something more specific to suggest but I would encourage you to bring her counselor in on this situation. For some teens who really shut down with homeschooling it is related to anxiety or depression and it is hard to resolve the school challenges separately from working on anxiety or depression. Even for teens who aren't dealing with those challenges there often comes a time of lower motivation when kids aren't that motivated to do schoolwork that is strictly for parents and for many it helps to have more outside accountability - to online teachers, community college instructors, peer group, etc.

[Michelle_NC]

Ditto to what the other wise posters shared! I have a 16 year old dd and last year (10th) was pretty bad.  We completely changed up her schooling and she's actually excited about the new opportunities this year.

[Jenny in Florida]

Okay, different kid, different family, different specifics. However, I can say that I broke down and refused to continue mom-directed homeschooling with my son when he was 14. We'd had ups and down prior to that point, but that was the moment when it became clear to me that what we were doing just wasn't working and that no tweaking or minor adjustments would solve the problem. 

 

We were having some issues similar to what you describe: He would claim to be doing required reading or working on assignments, but nothing ever really seemed to get finished. He ended up working longer and longer into the summers, scraping by with doing just enough work to keep himself out of actual trouble.

 

In our case, what "worked" was radical change. I advocated putting him in school, but my son hated the idea and my husband backed him up on that. We discussed investigating the independent study option offered at a local ballet school, in which the students spend full days at the dance school, alternating dance classes and rehearsals with time spent working on virtual school courses. However, it would have been very expensive, and we weren't certain our son was prepared to pass the required audition. And my husband felt strongly that he did not want me to have to go back to work abruptly just to finance something I would not need to pay for if my son had been more compliant.

 

What we eventually agreed on was signing him up to take all of his classes online using a combination of Florida Virtual School (free to us as Florida residents) and ALEKS. Because we made the switch after the academic year was already underway, my son had a limited choice of courses and had to make do with what was available. 

 

At the same time, we laid out very clear expectations for how much school work would be done each day and what grades he was required to maintain. We put in place equally clear consequences for not living up to those standards. Essentially, he was required to be caught up in every class every day, to maintain an average of 85% across all of his classes and to have no course grade fall below a B at any time in order to be allowed TV or discretionary computer time. He was not allowed to attend extracurricular activities (including dance and choir, which are important to him) if he fell behind in pace or if his grades in any class dropped.  (The exception was for rehearsals specific to upcoming performances, since pulling him from those would have had a negative effect on the groups.) He was also grounded for the entire weekend if he was not in good graces (work completed, grades acceptable) by 5:00 p.m. on Friday. 

 

However, assuming that he did keep up and keep his grades at the required level, we would do our very best to get him as much dance training as we could manage at his current school and would talk with the owner/directors about how he could get more involved (assisting in class, competing more, etc.). 

 

The understanding was that this was the last stop before public school. If this new routine failed, we would enroll him at the local public high school. He was already a year or so ahead, academically, but we explained that it was likely he would end up having to lose ground and start over. He really, really hated that idea.

 

The first couple of months were an adjustment. I hated not being in charge. I hated watching him get away with lower quality work than I knew he was capable of doing. I hated aspects of the curriculum, which I knew were inferior to what I had planned for him for the year. He still tried to negotiate what "done" meant, but having a defined pace set by an outside agency gave him a lot less wiggle room. He did miss a couple of dance classes and one choir rehearsal before he settled into knowing I meant it. 

 

Within a few months, though, the difference was almost magical. He found his rhythm, and his grades steadied. His online teachers had very nice things to say about him. He finished one class early, two more ahead of schedule, and the other three over the summer. (Because of the late start, working into the summer was reasonable.) He ended the year with a GPA of 3.8.

 

The following year, he took two high school classes online and dual enrolled at the community college, taking three classes a semester there. By prepping for and passing two CLEP exams this summer, he was able to graduate a year earlier than we anticipated (completing high school in three years instead of four). He was accepted to nine of the 11 colleges to which he applied, with very nice merit aid offered almost everywhere, and will be attending the college of his choice starting next week.

 

Along the way, he continued to sing with the choir and toured with them to London and Oxford, Washington D.C. (where they sang at the White House) and NYC (where they performed at Carnegie Hall). He became much more invested in dance, too, and was teaching a couple of classes at his studio this year. He also holds a statewide dance title this year. 

 

For all I know, things would have turned around once we got past that crisis point, anyway, but it certainly seems to me that being willing to make big changes and give him more control and responsibility combined with meaningful accountability was the key. While I still have my wistful moments thinking about all of the lovely, personalized, classically-inspired curriculum plans I had for him, I am mostly just proud of him and grateful that we found a way to make school work for him.

[rwjx2khsmj]

Thank you all for your encouragement. I am hopeful, based on your experiences, that I will be able to help my dd find a path through high school that we can both enjoy.

[Guest]

WildIris, what school did you find? My 15 yr old is giving me the same problems. Virtual Schools in TX are closed to homeschoolers. :(

[bobbeym]

WildIris, what school did you find? My 15 yr old is giving me the same problems. Virtual Schools in TX are closed to homeschoolers. :(

 

Yep.  I would have dearly loved to have enrolled DS in a virtual school this past year and not have had to deal with his cruddy attitude.

 

I remember 15yo/10th grade being my worst year in high school and it was rough for DS20 too.  I think a lot of it is the age and we just have to find a way to push through it.

[rwjx2khsmj]

Thanks for the ideas and encouragement.

I had another conversation with dd15 about requirements, expectations, etc. We came up with a plan to catch up from last year and move forward that makes us both comfortable. Once we hashed through everything she is much closer to finishing last year than either of us realized. During our negotiations she said all the right things about applying herself and her desire to complete high school in a timely manner. I am hopeful. We start on Monday.

[MtnTeaching]

It sounds as if you have a plan and she is on board.  I wish you both best wishes that it will go more smoothly for you.

I have a dd heading into 10th this year. Last year, we were really butting heads.  A few things that helped us:

 

- She attends a public school sponsored enrichment program on Fridays.  The kids and teachers are awesome.  She is able to take extracurricular classes such as musical drama, art, etc., plus she has a wonderful math teacher from India who is superb. (Math was a major problem for us when trying to work together, but between the school teacher and Teaching Textbooks, all is good.) She is a member of the student council and loves the interaction with the kids.

 

- I teach about half of her classes and she does the other classes online.  It helps to make her accountable to have other teachers.

 

- The biggie-  I realized that she just did not know HOW to keep herself organized and on track.  I am spending a lot of time helping her to set up systems that will remind her of what needs to be done and when it is due.  Improving note-taking skills and learning how to scheduling her time (such as breaking out how long it will take her to read a book) have been huge for her.  Spending more time with her when she is actually doing her work has been very good, as well.  I will take my work or laptop in with her and just be there while she is working.  Occasionally, I will ask what she is working on and then we will discuss.  It seems to help her cement what she is learning and I can tell if there are any problems. Personally, I think she just did not know how to adjust to the greater workload and was also feeling a bit lonely while doing her work.

 

- Finally, I added some fun things she was interested in.  She also likes to write (even though she is dyslexic) and I put her into a few of the online Brave Writer classes.  She took a Fiction Writing class last spring, and just finished a Fan Fiction writing class.  These have helped her to keep that creative "spark".  They are usually only about 6 weeks long.

 

I also believe that at least some of this can be attributed to hormones and their age.  Dd (just turned 16) is still up and down with her hormones.  One day, she is happy and energetic, the next, she can be blue with a horrid disposition.  I vaguely remember that stage, as well.  It was not fun.  There were many times that I would burst into tears for absolutely no reason and did not want to do a thing but sit in my room and listen to music.  Absolutely having to do something I did not want to do was like slugging through mud.

 

Best wishes to you both.