On the subject of literary study

[Chris in CA]

I'm thinking about having my 8th grade dd concentrate on annotation this year. Using short stories and having her really get used to actively reading, making connections, asking questions, etc. After reading the first chapter of Windows to the World I think it is a worthy goal to accomplish this first and foremost before delving further into our lit. studies. We will also pull out vocabulary and define it, and look for the concepts that we have learned in Figuatively Speaking - alliteration, metaphors and the like. So far I'm impressed with Windows on the World, but see the benefit of not rushing this. So many lit guides seem like busy work so I hope I'm not oversimplifying. What do you think?

[Chris in CA]

can anyone help

[dtsmamtj]

Sorry, I can't help but I wish I knew enough to do what you are doing - way to go!!!

 

 

T

[Kareni]

I'm unfamiliar with Windows to the World; however, your plan sounds like a great one. I wish you both luck with it!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Janice in NJ]

On Page 16 of the Teacher's Manual, Lesha suggests an 18 week Core Course, or a 26 Week Enhanced Course. They both look well-planned. You could easily practice on some novels as you work along, and then spend the last ten weeks of your school year covering some drama or poetry.

 

Sounds great!

Janice

[Colleen]

I agree that many lit guides seem like busy work. On the one hand, I don't want to jump in to literary analysis with such force that my son is overwhelmed. On the other, filling in blanks on comprehension questions just doesn't seem like time well-spent. As you know, I'm also eyeing Windows to the World, even though the mere thought of annotation makes my left eye start to twitch.;) Now that you have the book in hand, can you give a bit of a review? I know it covers short stories; are those included within the text? Thanks!

[Chris in CA]

Thank you for the support and the post!

[Chris in CA]

Thank you for the post

[Chris in CA]

Thanks Janice, I think I'll take it really slow - work on annotation for awhile, get it down - before we move on.

[Chris in CA]

Hi Colleen :001_smile:

Okay, I'm clueless on how to do multiple quotes, I just typed up a long response and did something to delete it.... :glare:

 

The lit guides I've seen for this level have always seemed heavy on the reading comp and light on the actual teaching of lit. analysis. After taking a couple of lit classes myself last semester I can see the benefit of teaching annotation first. This is something WEM stresses, but I was at a loss at how to teach. Windows to the World begins with annotation, teaches it, gives a scale for how to grade it that makes sense, stresses it's importance, includes a sample of it, and gives the student a short story to annotate as well as ideas for further selections. I feel that I now have the tool I need to teach this skill.

That being said, I think this is definitely hs level. I'm glad I bought it this year just for the section on how to annotate, but that is proabably as far as we will get. I've only read the first three chapters, so I don't feel like I can give a full review yet, but so far I'm impressed and will use it completely next year.

The selections are the best quality lit., O. Henry and Richard Connell for annotation. William Blake, G.K. Chesterton, Emily Dickinson, Yeats, and more for Allusions. I expect the rest is similar. Oh, and it is Christian, but not overly so. It could be used secularly with modification.

The intro. may throw homeschoolers, she writes to the classroom teacher and homeschooler. Many of her examples on how to implement are to the classroom teacher - like how to engage the student, grade, etc. But I didn't feel like this was a classroom only curr. she mentions that some of the activities will be best for ps and some for hs. There is a schedule for 18 weeks or 26 weeks if you use her suggestions for supplementation. The books are comb bound and the layout is uncluttered and nicely done. I do wish that the sample the students are to annotate wasn't so tightly written, leaving little space for the said annotation - but I think I'll find it online and give her a double spaced version anyways.

I'm going to try and read through this, this week and give a better review then, but those are my first impressions on what I have read thus far

hth

[Colleen]

The lit guides I've seen for this level have always seemed heavy on the reading comp and light on the actual teaching of lit. analysis. After taking a couple of lit classes myself last semester I can see the benefit of teaching annotation first.

 

Then, too, I can see the logic in using reading comprehension questions, helping students to think about and understand works, as a means toward annotation. Although it's difficult for me to support the notion that annotation is of prime importance, since I didn't annotate when I was a student and I don't do so now. I think it's worth teaching students, but whether one ultimately relies on annotation depends upon learning style, imo.

 

I think this is definitely hs level. I'm glad I bought it this year just for the section on how to annotate, but that is proabably as far as we will get. I've only read the first three chapters, so I don't feel like I can give a full review yet, but so far I'm impressed and will use it completely next year.

 

Why do you think it's high school level? Is it because of the works used, or the depth of thinking required ~ or both? So you have in mind to focus in 8th grade on Unit 2, Annotation, and reserve the rest of the book for high school?

 

I'm going to try and read through this, this week and give a better review then, but those are my first impressions on what I have read thus far

 

Thanks for your time, Chris!:)

[Julie in CA]

Chris,

Can you look on page 27 of your student book and tell me if there's anything wrong in your copy?

Mine has definite printing problems!

 

ETA: Oh, and I was thinking about the single-spacing and agreed with you that it would have been better if the articles were double-spaced. But you know, the more I think about it, the happier I am that the annotation is taught using a printed page similar to what my ds will likely be annotating in the future. Most textbooks and novels don't necessarily leave a lot of room for annotation, kwim? Figuring out a format for the annotating that will allow it to be used with regular books will probably be advantageous in the long run.

[Colleen]

Which of your guys will be using Windows? What's your impression of the program? I'd love to hear your input.:)

[Julie in CA]

Which of your guys will be using Windows? What's your impression of the program? I'd love to hear your input.:)

 

Chris, my 14 1/2 yo, started the book yesterday.

It's what I've looked for all of these years, and I wish it had been available for ds #1 who's now doing all of his classes at the community college.

 

With ds #1 I tried other resources that taught literary terms, and some things (like Omnibus and Lightning Lit.) that had good questions for discussion, but I couldn't find something to bridge the gap. I wanted my ds to be reading and analyzing on his own. Discussion is good, but the process of teaching him to think it through on his own seemed to be going verrry slooowwly.

 

I like the fact that Windows to the World is written to the student, and that much of the work is to be done independently. It's not that I don't want to be involved, but part of my goal for all of my dc is to equip them to learn *on their own*. I won't always be there to direct their learning--they'd better learn to think for themselves.

 

Windows to the World covers so much of what I think they should know to be prepared for higher-level thinking in college:

Annotation

Allusions/parallels in literature (recognizing connections, Biblical and otherwise)

Plot analysis

The difference between a book report and literary analysis

How to form (or recognize) a good or flawed thesis

Outline structure and graphic organizers

Blending quotations into your essays and punctuating them correctly

Introductions & conclusions

 

All of this is from the first 5 chapters. There are 10 more chapters, covering equally valuable material.

 

I like the fact that it teaches each of these things in enough detail that the student can fully grasp the concept, but that the lessons do not drag on and "beat a dead horse". I like that the skills are practical, useful, and can easily and immediately be related to their reading in other areas of study.

 

I think the price is a bargain for the amount the student will learn.

 

I like that the language/vocabulary/tone is accessible to my 14 yo without being cutesy, catering to popular slang, or talking down to him.

 

I like that the stories/articles/reading selections are worthwhile, relevant, and interesting. Good quality examples, imo.

 

Those are my rambling thoughts regarding Windows to the World, fwiw.

If you end up with any specific questions, of course I'd be glad to give you my opinion.

[Chris in CA]

 

Then, too, I can see the logic in using reading comprehension questions, helping students to think about and understand works, as a means toward annotation. Although it's difficult for me to support the notion that annotation is of prime importance, since I didn't annotate when I was a student and I don't do so now. I think it's worth teaching students, but whether one ultimately relies on annotation depends upon learning style, imo.

 

 

 

Why do you think it's high school level? Is it because of the works used, or the depth of thinking required ~ or both? So you have in mind to focus in 8th grade on Unit 2, Annotation, and reserve the rest of the book for high school?

 

 

 

Thanks for your time, Chris!:)

 

You make a good point about reading comphrehension, I think that I'm turned off by the regurgitation type questions that don't require thought. If I could find good thought provoking questions, it would be worth the effort, rather than the, "Sarah had ___________ in her picnic basket" or what does "mandatory" mean... The former is moronic, while the latter is pure vocabulary. Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh, but I want to develop active reading skills and not just skim to find the answers... KWIM?

As for the hs level quote, let me finish reading it and give a full report - so far if I were to do this with my 8th grader (and thats the lowest I would go) I would slow it way down.

[Colleen]

I think that I'm turned off by the regurgitation type questions that don't require thought. If I could find good thought provoking questions, it would be worth the effort, rather than the, "Sarah had ___________ in her picnic basket" or what does "mandatory" mean... The former is moronic, while the latter is pure vocabulary. Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh, but I want to develop active reading skills and not just skim to find the answers... KWIM?

 

Yes, I do understand. I have frankly been a bit surprised by some of the literature guides I've perused online. They require very little thought on the part of the student and aren't a good use of our time.

 

As for the hs level quote, let me finish reading it and give a full report - so far if I were to do this with my 8th grader (and thats the lowest I would go) I would slow it way down.

 

Hmmm, I'm beginning to think I should just stick with finishing out some of the LA work my oldest is carrying over from 7th grade and mix in a bit of writing. I think I'll order Windows, but it sounds like I may end up not using it until 9th.

[Colleen]

Windows sounds chock-full of good material, Julie; thanks for that description. I am thinking, though, it would be best-suited for at least 9th grade, maybe 10th. What do you think of starting in on it with an 8th grader? Or what might you recommend instead? Thanks!

[Julie in CA]

Windows sounds chock-full of good material, Julie; thanks for that description. I am thinking, though, it would be best-suited for at least 9th grade, maybe 10th. What do you think of starting in on it with an 8th grader? Or what might you recommend instead? Thanks!

 

I think that while it is probably best suited for 9th grade, there wouldn't be anything wrong with starting in 8th. You would have to plan on having a greater hand in presenting the information, which is why I would not have used it in 8th. There's only so much of me to go around, and I need most things to be done pretty independently in order to leave me time to follow up on the things where they really do need more guidance.

 

Taken slowly, I think it could be done, but if you already have a full schedule for this academic year then my suggestion would be to wait. My personal preference for language arts in 8th grade is to focus on the 5 paragraph essay. By high school I really like my dc to be able to churn out essays with relative ease.

 

If finances allow it, I think you should just go ahead and buy Windows to the World. You will probably want to use it eventually, if not this year then next.

Well, that is, if it ends up being your "cuppa" when you look at it. Have you looked at the sample pages?

[Colleen]

I think that while it is probably best suited for 9th grade, there wouldn't be anything wrong with starting in 8th. You would have to plan on having a greater hand in presenting the information, which is why I would not have used it in 8th. There's only so much of me to go around, and I need most things to be done pretty independently in order to leave me time to follow up on the things where they really do need more guidance. Taken slowly, I think it could be done, but if you already have a full schedule for this academic year then my suggestion would be to wait.

 

Good advice. I'm going to be pulled in many directions this year and I don't know that it's the best time to start my oldest in this just yet.

 

My personal preference for language arts in 8th grade is to focus on the 5 paragraph essay. By high school I really like my dc to be able to churn out essays with relative ease.

 

That makes sense. I've spent a lot of time lately considering how much attention to give to lit analysis in 8th, but it may be best to just focus on rounding out those basic writing skills. Trouble is, I'm torn as to how to go about doing so.:tongue_smilie:

 

If finances allow it, I think you should just go ahead and buy Windows to the World. You will probably want to use it eventually, if not this year then next. Well, that is, if it ends up being your "cuppa" when you look at it. Have you looked at the sample pages?

 

Yes, I've looked at the sample and I like what I see. What I may do is hold off and buy it next spring or so, which will give me plenty of time to familiarize myself with it before handing it over to my son for 9th grade. Now tell me what I should do for 8th.;)

[Julie in CA]

 

Now tell me what I should do for 8th.;)

 

 

Lol! I think my advice would be worth what you paid for it. ;)

 

But...

 

I like "Put That in Writing" from Barrett's Bookshelf. You might take a peek at that for 8th grade if you haven't already picked something else for Language Arts.

[Chris in CA]

Chris,

Can you look on page 27 of your student book and tell me if there's anything wrong in your copy?

Mine has definite printing problems!

 

ETA: Oh, and I was thinking about the single-spacing and agreed with you that it would have been better if the articles were double-spaced. But you know, the more I think about it, the happier I am that the annotation is taught using a printed page similar to what my ds will likely be annotating in the future. Most textbooks and novels don't necessarily leave a lot of room for annotation, kwim? Figuring out a format for the annotating that will allow it to be used with regular books will probably be advantageous in the long run.

 

 

I looked at page 27 in the student book and my copy is fine -

I agree about the spacing being similar to what is in books, I was thrown because the sample (where the annotation is done for you) has much larger spacing.... But that's really just a minor thing after all. I'm so glad that you find this so accessible for you 14 yo. I agree about the independent learning factor, that is why I am leaning toward teaching/reinforcing annotation and continuing with Figuatively Speaking - asking her to annotate them as she sees them. My goal this year is to get her to think about her reading in a more active way - to be noticing more and making more connections.

Have you read the chapter on Lit analysis? I loved it, loved the graphics organizers (and I usually don't go for those), but the book really makes sense.

[Beth in SW WA]

 

I like "Put That in Writing" from Barrett's Bookshelf. You might take a peek at that for 8th grade if you haven't already picked something else for Language Arts.

 

Chris -- slight digression from your original question (which I'm following closely and anxiously awaiting your updates) :)

 

I'm feeling clueless since I have no idea what annotation is. Should my ds 8th be doing this? Where, when & how? Thanks!

 

Julie,

 

Did you have good luck w/ PTIW? I'm starting it this year w/ ds 8th (and maybe dd 6th).

[Chris in CA]

Chris -- slight digression from your original question (which I'm following closely and anxiously awaiting your updates) :)

 

I'm feeling clueless since I have no idea what annotation is. Should my ds 8th be doing this? Where, when & how? Thanks!

 

 

 

Hi Beth,

 

Annotation simply means (per Windows to the World) to "explain, to comment upon, to note. With respect to literature, it also means to interact, to talk back" To annotate you read with a pen, and highlighter in hand and you mark up your books. Asking questions like, what does the author mean by that title? Where does the story take place? What is the author's purpose? Does the author accomplish that purpose? Annotation is very personal, its your conversation with the author - IOW no wrong answers, just interaction beyond passive reading, making notes to be actively connected to the book. The purpose of annotation is to record your/my personal thoughts, responses, and feelings about what is written. I read a bit of my homework today (a novella by Tolstoy) and annotated as I went - I realized how much more I was looking for connections or noticed repetitions of phrases, etc. This is the foundation for further lit study - you can't discuss what you don't internalize. It is actually to a large degree what SWB teaches in WEM. Windows just made it accessable to me to teach/do.

hth

[Colleen]

I'm feeling clueless since I have no idea what annotation is.

 

The first part of Windows to the World, which you can view here http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/files/ILA-S%20Sample.pdf, explains annotation.

[Colleen]

I like "Put That in Writing" from Barrett's Bookshelf. You might take a peek at that for 8th grade if you haven't already picked something else for Language Arts.

 

So, Julie, you just use Level 1 (Mastering the Paragraph) and not Level 2 (Essay)? I looked at PITW 1 last year. I appreciate the systematic approach to fne-tuning paragraph writing before building upon that foundation. What I found very off-putting were the examples provided. The writing isn't something I'd want a student to emulate. The language is so stilted as to be comical, and the paragraphs are ridiculously long. So I liked the concept, but found the product itself wanting in that respect.

[Julie in CA]

 

So, Julie, you just use Level 1 (Mastering the Paragraph) and not Level 2 (Essay)?

 

When I used PTIW with my first son, level 2 had not yet been published. For the most part we worked through paragraphs at the same time as he was writing essays. We'd just incorporate the techniques for paragraphs into his essays as he went along.

 

What I found very off-putting were the examples provided. The writing isn't something I'd want a student to emulate. The language is so stilted as to be comical, and the paragraphs are ridiculously long. So I liked the concept, but found the product itself wanting in that respect.

 

I have to confess that I rarely use things exactly as they are written. In a perfect world, all writing samples used to teach writing would be wonderful. In reality though, I don't need them all to be wonderful, I just need them to adequately illustrate the concept at hand.

 

While PTIW is by no means perfect, it included everything my ds needed in order to begin writing more complex paragraphs. He was fine with writing 6th grader paragraphs, if you kwim, but I wanted a bit more complexity, and PTIW really did help him along with that. I have more kiddos coming up, so if you know of something much better for paragraphs or essays, I would love to hear about it.

 

 

~Julie

[Beth in SW WA]

 

The first part of Windows to the World, which you can view here http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/files/ILA-S%20Sample.pdf, explains annotation.

 

Looks great. I can see why you're interested in this. I guess I better start annotating to get a hang of it.

[Beth in SW WA]

Hi Beth,

 

Annotation simply means (per Windows to the World) to "explain, to comment upon, to note. With respect to literature, it also means to interact, to talk back" To annotate you read with a pen, and highlighter in hand and you mark up your books. Asking questions like, what does the author mean by that title? Where does the story take place? What is the author's purpose? Does the author accomplish that purpose? Annotation is very personal, its your conversation with the author - IOW no wrong answers, just interaction beyond passive reading, making notes to be actively connected to the book. The purpose of annotation is to record your/my personal thoughts, responses, and feelings about what is written. I read a bit of my homework today (a novella by Tolstoy)

 

Thanks, Chris. Your explanation is extremely helpful.

 

Tolstoy, huh? You go girl! :)

[Lori D.]

 

So, Julie, you just use Level 1 (Mastering the Paragraph) and not Level 2 (Essay)? I looked at PITW 1 last year. I appreciate the systematic approach to fne-tuning paragraph writing before building upon that foundation. What I found very off-putting were the examples provided. The writing isn't something I'd want a student to emulate. The language is so stilted as to be comical, and the paragraphs are ridiculously long. So I liked the concept, but found the product itself wanting in that respect.

 

 

That's *exactly* what has frustrated me about PTIW1. I bought it 2 years ago; tried it with our then 8th grader, and we just couldn't make ourselves get past week 7 of the program. Almost sold it, but then decided to give it another try last year. Here's how we were able to make it work for us: read the teaching information for the lessons on specific types of writing and skip everything else.

 

We skipped the grammar exercises, skipped reading the "examples of good paragraphs", dropped the opening section that goes on so long about writing a paragraph, and discarded all of their writing assignments, making our own instead. What WAS very useful out of PTIW was the information about specific types of writing from the following lessons:

 

week 9 = descriptive paragraph

week 10 = research documentation, and ownership of ideas

week 11 = definition paragraph

week 14 = narrative paragraph

week 17 = process paragraph

week 20 = comparison paragraph

week 23 = cause/effect paragraph

week 26 = analogy paragraph

week 29 = defending a position paragraph

week 32 = character analysis paragraph

 

 

Pretty expensive program for using maybe a third of the information, but since I'd already purchased it, I decided to make use of it. I will probably use the above portions with the younger son when he's ready for it -- probably next year. I've yet to find anything I'm really thrilled about for teaching writing, but can't figure out how to teach it myself, so I keep purchasing programs and using bits and pieces from various sources. sigh...

 

Hope that helps. Warmly, Lori D.

[Chris in CA]

LOL, I wish I would have thought of that :)