Math curriculum...talk me down (MUS, CLE)

[hands-on-mama]

My 6 1/2 year old is finishing up Singapore 1A. I like it okay, but I am not completely sold. I'm not sure that she is either. She is able to do the work, but some of the concepts go in one ear and out the other. I'm thinking we need to reinvigorate math. Make it new and fresh-for both of us-even if it's just for a semester or so. I plan to hold on to 1B and 2A that I already have for this school year.

 

She just had testing done and was diagnosed with High Functioning ASD (very slight), ADHD (combined presentation), and OCD. We have some things to deal with and work around. I need to find something that fits her. I want to find what works. She also has low processing speed, so she has a hard time retaining what we learn in math.

 

I've been looking at CLE and MUS. I know they are very different. We used MUS Primer when she was 4 1/2 and it was fine. We decided to try Singapore since that's what HOD recommends and you hear about it from everyone here.

 

CLE seems more traditional in its approach. I like it because it's familiar.

 

MUS seems to be very different in approach and the way the blocks are made might just work for her.

 

What would you use with your child that has low processing speed? Spout some ideas out at me!

[kiana]

I wouldn't think that MUS would be a good fit for a child with retention issues simply because of the extreme mastery approach. Jmo.

[Cheryl in CA]

I wouldn't think that MUS would be a good fit for a child with retention issues simply because of the extreme mastery approach. Jmo.

 

MUS is mastery but has spiral review.

[Cheryl in CA]

My 6 1/2 year old is finishing up Singapore 1A. I like it okay, but I am not completely sold. I'm not sure that she is either. She is able to do the work, but some of the concepts go in one ear and out the other. I'm thinking we need to reinvigorate math. Make it new and fresh-for both of us-even if it's just for a semester or so. I plan to hold on to 1B and 2A that I already have for this school year.

 

She just had testing done and was diagnosed with High Functioning ASD (very slight), ADHD (combined presentation), and OCD. We have some things to deal with and work around. I need to find something that fits her. I want to find what works. She also has low processing speed, so she has a hard time retaining what we learn in math.

 

I've been looking at CLE and MUS. I know they are very different. We used MUS Primer when she was 4 1/2 and it was fine. We decided to try Singapore since that's what HOD recommends and you hear about it from everyone here.

 

CLE seems more traditional in its approach. I like it because it's familiar.

 

MUS seems to be very different in approach and the way the blocks are made might just work for her.

 

What would you use with your child that has low processing speed? Spout some ideas out at me!

 

I am not familiar with CLE but am very familiar with MUS.  It could be a good fit for her if the blocks help her to understand.  Did the blocks help her when you used primer?  How long you spend on each lesson is flexible so you can take as much or as little time as needed.  You just need to be sure that you use the systematic review pages (D-F in the elementary books) or she won't get any review (pages A-C only have problems for the current lesson).  If she needs more time for mastery that shouldn't be an issue but I've spoken to some whose kids would master things quickly and would only do pages A-C, then complain that there wasn't any review.

 

Another option would be something like Math On The Level, which is fully customizable. 

http://www.mathonthelevel.com/

[wapiti]

For low processing speed, I'd avoid handwriting.  Allow oral answers whenever possible (usually often possible with first grade math) or use a white board rather than pencil/paper.  Also avoid timed tests or other timed activities.

 

FWIW, retention would be an issue unrelated to low processing speed.

 

You might also post on the Learning Challenges board.

 

Eta, it may be that the levels of SM beyond first grade are more well-liked than the first grade level.  If I were looking to reinvigorate math at that level, I'd probably look to Miquon, especially if she may lean more toward visual-spatial as a learning preference (in which case I'd also avoid rote activities but rather review in other ways).  RS games for math facts?

[hands-on-mama]

We have been doing math games for a while. She can remember a few facts here and there, but not a ton. We have all of a Miquon, but I had had trouble really getting into it. I suppose we could try. I own up through 2A of Singapore right now. I keep looking through them thinking to myself how in the world she will be ready for that. I just want to make sure I am using something that works for her. I feel like we are pushing to understand some things that she is not quite ready for. IDK. I'm going to mull this over some more.

[Storygirl]

We're just finishing up CLE 200 (second grade level).  Each day there is a very short lesson with a few practice problems, and then the rest of the pages are review. We love it, because it provides continuous practice, which prevents my children from forgetting what they have learned. There are three to four pages to complete every day, so if writing is an issue, that is something to consider. There are no manipulatives, but I often have pulled out my own to demonstrate something and have them practice it.  Every day there is a list of what to do for skip counting practice and flashcard drills (the CLE set of flashcards is essential for this), and there is a speed drill page as well. I haven't used MUS, but from what I've read, I think the two approaches to math instruction are kind of opposite, so you would need to figure out what will help her. There are sample pages and placement tests on the CLE website.

[hands-on-mama]

They are definitely very opposite. I guess I'm trying to figure out what will work best. Sigh!

[sweetpea3829]

I wouldn't think Singapore would be a good fit for a kiddo with low processing speed...it's (IMO) a more accelerated math curriculum and the mental math aspect of it really requires decent processing speed and retention.

 

For my oldest child, she has some processing delays and overall math weaknesses.  She is diagnosed with dyscalculia and literally cannot mentally figure numbers.  Not even +1.  

 

MUS is a great fit for her...the blocks have really helped her to be able to actually DO the math.  Does she understand the concepts?  Not really.  But she can at least compute.  We'll work on the understanding as time goes on and as she develops cognitively.

 

Personally, I would NOT use MUS with a NT kiddo.  I find it to be behind grade level.  I get that, if you follow the course from start to finish, you'll cover just about everything in the same span of time but...that's a bit of a commitment to make to one curriculum.  My best friend's daughter is using MUS Beta, is 2nd grade, and still has yet to cover certain topics that Singapore covered in 1st grade.  

[hands-on-mama]

My daughter also has working me or issues. Her scores for that and processing speed were in the 7th and 11th percentile.

[wapiti]

My daughter also has working me or issues. Her scores for that and processing speed were in the 7th and 11th percentile.

 

Yes, I kinda figured there might be a working memory issue since there's ADHD.  

 

(In spite of the term, processing speed issues as measured on the WISC aren't typically a thinking/retention issue but rather an input/output issue with motor stuff like vision tracking and handwriting.  For example, I have kids with processing speed issues but no working memory problem fortunately, no retention issues, and no trouble with math.)

 

If she has visual-spatial strengths, I might try to use those to the extent possible (lots of manipulatives, etc., and especially big picture/context before the details)

[hands-on-mama]

Yes, I kinda figured there might be a working memory issue since there's ADHD.

 

(In spite of the term, processing speed issues as measured on the WISC aren't typically a thinking/retention issue but rather an input/output issue with motor stuff like vision tracking and handwriting. For example, I have kids with processing speed issues but no working memory problem fortunately, no retention issues, and no trouble with math.)

 

If she has visual-spatial strengths, I might try to use those to the extent possible (lots of manipulatives, etc., and especially big picture/context before the details)

Lots of manipulatives is what we do. We use them for every lesson. I'm just not sure what else to try. I just wish there was an easy solution. I think it's harder for me to understand because I never had to work at it. So now I have to step outside of myself to figure out how to help her. I thought CLE might be good because of all the drill, but those long lessons have me worried. I thought MUS would be good because of the different approach and the blocks, but I'm just not sure. I don't want to spend all that money and it be a bust.

[HappyClassical]

We did MUS with Singapore for first grade math when my DD was in kinder. We dumped them. I agree with others that MUS is not a good fit.

 

We are now on RSb ( the 2nd edition which just came out recently) which has much less worksheets but tons of varied manipulatives and games. It has some Singapore philosophy behind it, but is quite different. It's twacher intensive but my DD is loving it. We will also be using RSAwith my son who will be K5, is advanced in certain areas but has a very weak visual sequential memory and the vision therapist reviewed RS and likes the early abacus introduction and games.

 

For my DD, we are using MM worksheets as review for mastery where needed (RS leans spiral), and Splashmath for online review.

[wapiti]

Lots of manipulatives is what we do. We use them for every lesson. I'm just not sure what else to try. I just wish there was an easy solution. I think it's harder for me to understand because I never had to work at it. So now I have to step outside of myself to figure out how to help her. I thought CLE might be good because of all the drill, but those long lessons have me worried. I thought MUS would be good because of the different approach and the blocks, but I'm just not sure. I don't want to spend all that money and it be a bust.

fWiW, this is just my opinion, but I tend to be wary of relying too much on programs that lean more toward step by step instruction (and this may include mus from what i have read) where there are sequential weaknesses in the student even though there may be also be a need for the daily review that some of those programs offer.

 

Considering all the issues your dd is dealing with, I wonder whether yourit current method isn't really all that bad, whether perhaps just some tweaks are in orderwould (adding something in) along with the usual dose of effort and patience. Or, I might try out Miquon starting with orange. I would rather try to build an intuitive number sense if that is a better fit for her learning style than worry about marching forward to the next concept, IYKWIM. (I am trying to post on my phone but this is the kind of post I'd probably like to edit more for clarity...)

 

Eta, there have neen some interesting threads on the learning challenges board about a program by a person named Ronit Bird. I don't know anuthing about it but it may be worth taking a look.

[AmyinMD]

I use MUS with my 9 yo dd who has dyslexia and trouble with slower processing.  She also did most of Singapore 1A and just didn't seem to be retaining anything.  Also her twin brother was in 2B by that time and they can be competitive so I wanted to have them in different programs.   My 16 yo also has very mild dyslexia and MUS has been the best fit we have found for her.  She has done most of the MUS levels since Alpha.  When she was younger she just didn't seem to get adding or subtracting.  It wasn't until we got Alpha and did it that she really seemed to retain it.  I think she built just about every problem in that book before she really got it but it did work.   I really like the MUS DVD you can order that shows how the overall program works.  It really helped me see where we were going when we were doing Alpha.  

 

One of our current biggest struggles is that we cannot take any breaks from math.  My dh usually takes care of helping our girls with MUS but he was hurt at work in February and for a few weeks my 9 yo dd didn't do math.  She forgot a lot of things and we had to spend about a month reviewing just to recover what was lost.  We have decided she just can't take breaks from math at all.  Also she still really has a hard time with memorizing math facts so we are always practicing them and I kind of wonder if they will ever stick.  

 

I do really like Rightstart too.  I have the program but it is very teacher intensive and it is hard for me to keep up with it.  My dd also really seems to need to see things in writing and while writing is difficult and slow for her she always writes out every little step for math problems.   The MUS assignments are usually relatively short and aren't overwhelming for her.   

 

My son uses Singapore and I don't think MUS would fit him at all.  It can really drive a person nuts trying to figure out the perfect program for each child.  

 

[ktgrok]

I wouldn't think that MUS would be a good fit for a child with retention issues simply because of the extreme mastery approach. Jmo.

 

Agreed. My son is also high functioning ASD, and ADHD, and although he is gifted he has a very low processing speed and low working memory. Mastery Math was a nightmare. He'd forget it immediately, then have to relearn it all over again the next time. CLE has continuous review, which made all the difference. 

[SilverMoon]

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Edited May 16 by SilverMoon

[3andme]

CLE is a great program but the lessons can seem long for a younger child. I often read the questions aloud to my ds and scribe the answers for him. Breaking up the lesson into 2 parts - a morning and afternoon lesson - can also help children with a shorter attention span.

[hands-on-mama]

Thanks for everyone's help! After talking with you guys and conferring with my father in law (math/physics degree), I am going with CLE. I'm going to buy 5 light units and the extras to start with and go from there.