The AoPS of writing?

[EKS]

This looks interesting Kai. Is it a teacher resource? I'd love to see a sample or a TOC list. Are you using The Reader's Odyssey too?

 

It is a teacher resource.  It prioritizes teaching how to write clearly and coherently.  Then it moves on eloquence and various types of academic papers.

 

I also like her rationale for grading.  She has a system based on growth rather than just averaging scores throughout the term.  Also, the purple crayon thing refers to the problem of taking a red pen to our students written work and editing it to death in an effort to teach them how to write.  With the purple crayon approach, the student has a short list of very specific goals that they get graded on and that list changes over time.  Enough essays are assigned so that the student is able to make progress toward the goals.  So instead of assigning four essays per year (like they did in my son's "rigorous" private school this past year) and hoping that the kid learns how to write from that, she suggests assigning one each week. 

 

Anyway, the book was like a breath of fresh air.  It suggested a lot of things that I had actually tried with my older son in one form or another and that I knew worked, but it fleshed those ideas out.  I am really excited to try it!

 

I'll also be trying The Reader's Odyssey.  The good thing about that is that it involves buying more books! 

 

[happyhome]

I'll agree with Bravewriter or Killgallon. Really, Killgallon is a little more parts to whole IMHO, but still good. My oldest dd is on her second Bravewriter class and she *loves* it. She's a very whole to parts VSL (tested as one, too!) and it's been both challenging and really educational for her. It was well worth the price, and I'll have her do more if I get more money. :)

We have Kilgallon and she likes it but it's not enough. The exercises are too repetitive. My second dd loves Kilgallon. Based on this thread, I think we may try a Bravewriter class and see how it goes. I have the WJ and honestly, I can't get my arms around this method. But I am not VSL like my daughter so she may totally get it. Which class did your dd take? Any suggestions on where to start?

[happyhome]

It is a teacher resource. It prioritizes teaching how to write clearly and coherently. Then it moves on eloquence and various types of academic papers.

 

I also like her rationale for grading. She has a system based on growth rather than just averaging scores throughout the term. Also, the purple crayon thing refers to the problem of taking a red pen to our students written work and editing it to death in an effort to teach them how to write. With the purple crayon approach, the student has a short list of very specific goals that they get graded on and that list changes over time. Enough essays are assigned so that the student is able to make progress toward the goals. So instead of assigning four essays per year (like they did in my son's "rigorous" private school this past year) and hoping that the kid learns how to write from that, she suggests assigning one each week.

 

Anyway, the book was like a breath of fresh air. It suggested a lot of things that I had actually tried with my older son in one form or another and that I knew worked, but it fleshed those ideas out. I am really excited to try it!

 

I'll also be trying The Reader's Odyssey. The good thing about that is that it involves buying more books!

 

Sounds like this may be the type of roadmap I'm looking for, one that gets her writing and experimenting and trying new things so she can see progress. I wonder how it compares to Image Grammar, mentioned above? I'll add it to my summer reading list. I love the idea of The Readers Odyssey too! I just bought Lightning Lit 8 but we'd have to tweak it because she's read a couple of the books and she disliked some of the worksheet formats. I'll probably save it for my 2nd who enjoys step by step methods. I love The Readers Odyssey's broader way of looking at literature, based on books she loves! Reminds me of Teaching the Classics, an idea I loved but scared me to death. My daughter thought the title was really cool too.

[Chrysalis Academy]

It is a teacher resource.  It prioritizes teaching how to write clearly and coherently.  Then it moves on eloquence and various types of academic papers.

 

I also like her rationale for grading.  She has a system based on growth rather than just averaging scores throughout the term.  Also, the purple crayon thing refers to the problem of taking a red pen to our students written work and editing it to death in an effort to teach them how to write.  With the purple crayon approach, the student has a short list of very specific goals that they get graded on and that list changes over time.  Enough essays are assigned so that the student is able to make progress toward the goals.  So instead of assigning four essays per year (like they did in my son's "rigorous" private school this past year) and hoping that the kid learns how to write from that, she suggests assigning one each week. 

 

Anyway, the book was like a breath of fresh air.  It suggested a lot of things that I had actually tried with my older son in one form or another and that I knew worked, but it fleshed those ideas out.  I am really excited to try it!

 

I'll also be trying The Reader's Odyssey.  The good thing about that is that it involves buying more books! 

 

 

I've got both of these ordered as well!  They look great.  I'm glad to hear you like Grading so far.

[mommymilkies]

We have Kilgallon and she likes it but it's not enough. The exercises are too repetitive. My second dd loves Kilgallon. Based on this thread, I think we may try a Bravewriter class and see how it goes. I have the WJ and honestly, I can't get my arms around this method. But I am not VSL like my daughter so she may totally get it. Which class did your dd take? Any suggestions on where to start?

KidsWrite Intermediate and she's now in Romeo & Juliet.  She is the youngest or one of the youngest kids in her class, so plan accordingly for where her level is. The classes are much more demanding and advanced than I expected.  She's keeping up wonderfully, but it took a little adjustment from her. 

[happyhome]

KidsWrite Intermediate and she's now in Romeo & Juliet.  She is the youngest or one of the youngest kids in her class, so plan accordingly for where her level is. The classes are much more demanding and advanced than I expected.  She's keeping up wonderfully, but it took a little adjustment from her. 

  

We've spent the morning tooling around on the site.  We'll definitely need some help from Julie to figure out placement.  If you don't mind me asking, what type of adjustment did you dd need to make?  To the format?  To the level of difficulty?  Even after looking at the sample class, I'm not sure if I understand the format.  It seems like you can come in and out of class whenever you want?  Are you required to submit all assignments? Is there any evaluation process other than her postings and feedback?  Also, it seems like the class is for the mom?  Or is it for her with my oversight? Sorry to pepper you with all these questions.  I am planning to call them directly.  I was just left with so many questions after reviewing the sample class.  The idea looks interesting though and hearing that your VSL dd loved it is very encouraging.

[mommymilkies]

To the level of difficulty and to the assignment expectations so close together.  She works at least a couple hours a day on it, but she's pretty studious.  I had her sign up to receive a grade.  The assignments have due dates and it's not a class you do on your own timeframe.  At least for the Intermediate and Shakespeare courses, it's written to the student and they have a forum like situation where they discuss the questions, introduce themselves, submit assignments, etc.  

 

No problem. :) I'm going to the BW retreat in June.  I've been "doing" BW for a long time, but these classes really showed me my weaknesses and have been pretty priceless.  I am surprisingly happy with them.  They were well worth the cost (not much compared to some places!). 

[Pen]

My personal experience with the BW class was you got out of it what you put into it. It had assignments due by certain dates, and you could keep making more and more improvements and changes even before a specific next assignment. While assignments were due by a certain date, you could go to the forum and read what was there and post according to your own schedule's needs (not like some virtual academies where everyone is present at the same time exactly). So, your dd might go to the forum every day at 9AM your time and read and post.  Someone else might be there at 11AM Australia time. Some people might go only once daily; others several times.

 

ETA talking to Julie about placement would be a good idea, but it sounds like Kidswrite Intermediate would be the likely spot. Since your daughter already likes to write fiction, that would likely be a waste, and more help to take a class that has non-fiction as its focus. Possibly she would be ready for a high school level class from what you say, though, like the essay writing class. Or if she is objecting to literary analysis, maybe a Shakespeare class would be a good choice. 

 

How much parental oversight it would take probably depends on how self motivated your dd is.

[happyhome]

Update.....Bravewriter isn't going to work out. Dd did not like the interface. We're now considering The Lost Tools of Writing online classes. I've been told that LTOW focuses on the good thinking that leads to good writing. It sounds promising. I'm planning to go to a workshop next weekend to see if this might be a fit. I love the philosophy at Circe and Andrew's talks have changed my schooling a lot over the last couple of years. We'll see.

[Matryoshka]

Update.....Bravewriter isn't going to work out. Dd did not like the interface. We're now considering The Lost Tools of Writing online classes. I've been told that LTOW focuses on the good thinking that leads to good writing. It sounds promising. I'm planning to go to a workshop next weekend to see if this might be a fit. I love the philosophy at Circe and Andrew's talks have changed my schooling a lot over the last couple of years. We'll see.

 

Let us know what you think!  None of those workshops are anywhere near me...

 

[happyhome]

Let us know what you think! None of those workshops are anywhere near me...

 

Will do. I really hope this works. From what I've read in the welcome email, I think it just might.

[Pen]

I'll be interested in knowing how it goes too.

[happyhome]

As promised, I am updating this thread following the workshop I attended this past weekend.  The workshop was taught by Camille Goldston, an instructor at Circe's online academy.  It was absolutely outstanding.  I now have a good understanding of what this program teaches and how.  

 

I would now say that LTOW is, in fact, an AoPS type writing program.  I think the similarities in terms of structure and method are as follows:

 

Writing is presented from a whole-to-parts perspective, with the big picture introduced day 1

The focus is on thinking, not memorization or formulas

Student is writing essays (albeit rudimentary) day 1 (i.e., solving problems day 1)

Skills are layered in every week adding and deepening the strength, scope and effectiveness of the essay

Classical writing terms and definitions are used day 1 with no gimmicky euphemisms or cute shortcuts 

 

I believe dd will learn the good thinking skills that lead to good writing in an organized and layered format.  Lessons are taught using books/topics of your choosing, as opposed to a set reading list, which I believe will make the writing assignments relevant and exciting.  That also makes it possible to use LTOW for multiple years using increasingly more difficult texts of your choosing and thereby increase the overall strength of the thinking and writing exercises.

 

I was originally concerned that LTOW focuses almost exclusively on the Persuasive Essay in LTOW 1, but now that I have seen the scope and sequence of year 1, I see how the skills learned here can be transferred to all types of academic writing.  The program is less about formulas and rules.  It offers a general framework with all the emphasis on the thinking skills necessary to write anything.  

 

Following is the scope and sequence of LTOW 1:

 

Invention

ANI chart (the graphic organizer LTOW uses to organize and frame thinking skills)

In depth teaching and analysis of the 5 Common Topics (Definition, Comparison, Circumstance, Relation, Authority)

 

Arrangement

Sorting of the ANI Chart

Exordium

Amplification

Division

Refutation

Narratio

 

 

Elocution

Schemes:  Parallelism, antithesis,  alliteration, assonance, anaphora, epistrophe

 

Tropes: simile, metaphor, personfication, apostrophe, hyperbole, litotes

 

The online classes teach each essay in three week cycles, one week each for Invention, Arrangement and Elocution.  A new skill is taught in each canon each week of the cycle.  Each new skill is then incorporated into the current essay so that by the end of the year, the student is writing an essay with all the pieces listed in the scope and sequence.  I think of it as a scaffolding of skills.  It seems that students can expect to put in about 45min-1hr per day on writing in addition to the weekly class.  The classes are taught live with a chat box for student questions and live discussion.  There is no peer review of the students' writing.  Instructors read each piece of writing and provide personal feedback and evaluation.  One-on-one student/instructor time is available if needed.

 

So here's our plan so far…..dd has decided to try the LTOW online class next year in 8th grade.  I think it will be a good fit.  It's the big picture with a solid framework of skill building, exactly what we were looking for.  She will continue reading the essay anthologies I've chosen for her.  I will be reading Thinking in Threes and Grading with a Purple Crayon for my own self ed and hopefully use that to further guide her process.  Finally, we will use Image Grammar in between LTOW 1 and 2.  Once the Invention and Arrangement skills are learned in LTOW 1, the additional Elocution skills in IG will be a perfect complement.  

 

We're looking forward to the plan.  Thanks for everyone's input.  This thread was so very helpful.

[Mrs Twain]

Oh, I can so relate! I have a whole shelf full of writing programs and still have yet to find the magic one that will get DD to where I want her to be entering high school (there's a possibility she may attend a selective private school). We did "Lively Art of Writing" with the free workbook at the beginning of this year. That was okay, and certainly the price can't be beat. But I felt like it didn't really address the main issue that DD has with her composition. She struggles to come up with a strong thesis and support it with evidence.

 

I haven't yet decided what we're going to be doing next fall. I've got a couple things on my shelf that I do want to do with her at some point, but I'm not confident she's ready for them just yet. "A Workbook for Arguments" by Morrow and Westin is one. IEW "Windows to the World" with the Jill Pike syllabus is another. Classical Academic Press' "The Argument Builder" might be a good stepping stone to the Morrow & Westin text but I haven't gotten the chance to actually look through a copy of that yet.

 

Dredging up this old thread--

 

Crimson Wife,

Did you decide on what you are using this year?  

 

I looked at the Westin book (A Workbook for Arguments) and it is impressive.  I may try to work through this slowly over middle school with my son (6th/7th/8th).  I am looking for something similar as you--a course which will teach him to form solid arguments.

 

Any thoughts?