How do you combine 2 approaches to math?

[emily203]

So, my dd is 6 and finishing K this month. We used Singapore Early bird last year, which she liked, and because I had it we used rod and staff 1 this year for math, which she found fun at first and then it became too easy and she went from loving math to tolerating it. But, I do feel that rod and staff gave her a really good foundation. So, now after reevaluating, I found and started MEP with her. We love it. I think it's amazing actually. My question is...do any of you combine 2 such programs which are completely opposite in approach? (We are done with rod and staff 1 and zooming through the first half of MEP year 1 so we can settle in on the second half over the summer). I have rod and staff 2, but I am considering just doing MEP and using the workbooks to practice facts. Or do you all have other ideas? Thanks!!! I guess my concern is not wanting to bounce around...but I also want my daughter to continue to enjoy math.

[nwmama]

We use Saxon & Singapore. I chose them BECAUSE they are completely opposite in their approaches. I talked to lots of mathy people and most of them gave me the advice to choose 2 (sometimes they said 3) programs that were different approaches so that the kids are comfortable with more than one way of doing math. DH really wants me to make sure the kids are strong in STEM so he's willing to pay for 2 or 3 programs a year. 

 

This year I've been going back and forth between the two but only because DS seems to prefer that way rather than finishing one program before moving onto the next, not for any more intellectual reason. We make him do math 6 days a week, year round, except for sick days but I don't want him to love math, not hate it. And so far he does enjoy it. 

 

I'm want to use LOF as our summer program but I haven't started that yet, we got a little behind with all our school thanks to a cross country move in the middle of the school year.

[Gil]

... I found and started MEP with her. We love it. I think it's amazing actually. My question is...do any of you combine 2 such programs which are completely opposite in approach?...I have rod and staff 2, but I am considering just doing MEP and using the workbooks to practice facts. Or do you all have other ideas? Thanks!!! I guess my concern is not wanting to bounce around...but I also want my daughter to continue to enjoy math.

I put love of math above everything else in the early stages. We lucked out in that the first formal thing that we tried was a hit--the boys loved it, I loved it, everyone was happy and there was peace in our little part of the world!

Here is a vaguely insightful quote (from me) that I wrote in another thread...

One of the many reasons that I pulled them from PS is because PS was crushing my kids will and drive to learn. They had always done academics with me and it is something we did as a no-strings attached, low pressure thing and even when it was a bit difficult it gave us all satisfaction. I wasn't going to surrender that to the PS and I won't surrender that to [POPULAR CURRICULUM PUBLISHER] either.

 

Even though I am not intimately familiar with either of the math programs you mentioned, in your case, I would say go with MEP and use Rod and Staff to practice facts only if you need it to preserve love of math.

 

We used Math Mammoth from the beginning so that I could be sure that the boys would be immovably rock solid on elementary math. They had the concepts down and could do calculation problems with some guidance/support from me, but now they can just do the work. No 'ifs, ands or buts' about it. Now, I don't recommend this in general and know that *we* did a lot of overkill work at the elementary level--but my boys are seemingly are in the minority because they have done sit down work/worksheets since they were toddlers and it has not been a problem for us.

 

If something had been ruining their math-buzz, I'd have nixed it. As it stands, we've done Math Mammoth and Keys to but we are math fiends around here so it was like 90% enjoyable doing all that math. :) If it hadn't have been, I'd have gone with something else entirely.

[Dory]

I use MM, BA, and LOF. I use them because they come at it from different directions and allow the kids to really learn the concepts thoroughly. I don't want the kids to be stuck with only one way of doing math, but rather to feel comfortable with it no matter how they come across it. We do MM as our core. BA is used during breaks. Because we do 3-4 pages of MM at a time, we tend to get ahead in it. So we take breaks and play with BA for awhile. LOF is our Friday math. Fridays tend to be our fun day in which we do the fun math and the games and movies that complement what we've learned for the week.

[jnaj]

Nwmama- how do you incorporate both Saxon and Singapore? Do you alternate days, weeks, or..? I'm very curious. These are the two main programs I see suggested everywhere. I have decided to use Singapore for my 1st grader, and Saxon for my 5th almost 6th grader. I wouldn't be interested in combining anything for my old child at this point, but possibly with my younger one. I just didn't know if it would be overkill. I guess if you did certain days of each it wouldn't be so bad?

[Crimson Wife]

Singapore is our "spine" but I am using other programs for review and either reinforcement or extension.

 

Oldest DD did Horizons Pre-Algebra along with Singapore Discovering Math 7 and she's using selected problems from Lial's Beginning Algebra along with DM 8A. I like DM but it is a very challenging program and I'm not always confident that DD has totally mastered the material. My goal is to stretch her intellectually so it's good that she is exposed to the really difficult problems via DM. However, I've found that DM alone isn't enough. Hence using a second text for review/reinforcement. I don't have a formal schedule of when we do DM vs. Lial's, but Fridays are always a review lesson and recently I've been taking those from the Lial book.

 

DS is doing Beast Academy 3 along with Singapore 4A. BA reviews the concepts introduced via SM and then extends them. The Singapore IP books have similar "out-of-the-box" problems in the "take the challenge!" sections, but BA has more of them. He is doing Singapore 4A on M/W, BA on Tu/Th, and then the end-of-chapter reviews from Singapore 3B on Fridays.

[nwmama]

Nwmama- how do you incorporate both Saxon and Singapore? Do you alternate days, weeks, or..? I'm very curious. These are the two main programs I see suggested everywhere. I have decided to use Singapore for my 1st grader, and Saxon for my 5th almost 6th grader. I wouldn't be interested in combining anything for my old child at this point, but possibly with my younger one. I just didn't know if it would be overkill. I guess if you did certain days of each it wouldn't be so bad?

 

I alternate days, some days we do Singapore and others we do Saxon, I don't usually have him do both the same day. We don't actually spend that much time on math each day, maybe 1/2 hour, but DS can usually do 4-6 pages in that time, depending on whether he has mastered the topic yet. Some days we only do 1 or 2 pages. 

 

We'll do 2 or 3 programs all the way through high school, by doing math (and reading) all year round, 6 days a week, there isn't the pressure to finish in a certain amount of time. We'll just work through our 2 main programs during the regular school year and fill in the summer gap with a lighter program like LOF, again with no pressure to finish it in a certain time frame. Even though all year round, 6 days a week, sounds intense, since I only expect 1/2 hour each day it really isn't any harder to fit in than music practice or straightening a bedroom. 

 

Part of the reason I do this is because I know that even though I'm not mathy, I could have been stronger in math if I had done this system. I'm even looking forward to studying math with my kids so I can refresh my own math skills. Next year I'll have a K'er, a 1st, and a 2nd, all of our school takes less than 2 hours a day during the school year, 30min of math and whatever reading they want in the summer (which is usually 30-60 min). I'm not worried about them meeting any standards right now, just starting to see math as part of every day life, just like reading. The more comfortable they get with it now, the easier time they will have with complex math and science courses in high school. 

[CardinalAlt]

Someone recently suggested that I think of math like I do reading - some should be really challenging (require a lot of involvement with me, like read alouds), some should be moderately challenging but in their zone, and some should be relatively easy and confidence building.

 

That made sense to me, and we do have BA that we do together in one chunk of math (like 20 minutes), Miquon that I get her started with, then let her go (another 20 minutes or so, after she's had a break from math in the day), and an easy, fun practice book she does on her own whenever and lots of math game possibilities, tangible and electronic.

 

She likes all of these things well enough, but I've also pulled back on particular programs at times and shifted to more games, living math books, etc., just to keep interest high. I don't want to wear her out on math...

[Korrale]

Games and play! We do a lot of verbal stuff too. We also do math everyday. Just like reading. And we also incorporate living math. Curriculums are for me not him. I read ahead. Get a good idea of what I am teaching, and how. Then we make up games on the fly. We are in second grade math.

That is how we tie everything together.

Once we have covered the concepts enough via play we do the curriculum rapidly. I use spectrum workbooks to cover traditional math. He does a work page every day on his own. If I find that he needs assistance I will make a note to teach and play a game that will give him a better understanding.

We do Singapore verbally. Usually we snuggle up in bed and read through the textbooks for as long as he wants. Once again if he doesn't have an idea of what we are learning I will cover it another day.

We also use Ray's arithmetic verbally. But I let him play with manipulatives if he needs to. It is the only book that I have open when we play math.

 

We also watch math videos that teach different ways to do math. And we use apps too.

[LindaOz]

My 11yo and 9yo are using 3 programs, but before that sounds too much and over-the-top let me explain. They use Mathsonline, Easy Learn Maths (just a math workbook) and Life of Fred. They do mathsonline every day then follow that up with either a page or two from their math book or a lesson or two from LOF (which they love). I find the different approaches good as they come across the same concepts in different ways and one program is reinforcing the other. They usually spend around 45 mins on math so it's not as crazy as it sounds.

[lorisuewho]

We love MEP!! We use it as our spine, but the children all have a traditional math program also. One does CLE, one did R&S and is now switching to Horizons, and my next child is also using Horizons. We are selective to some extent on our problems, but generally my boys love math and do not mind working for 45 to 60 minutes on math. I keep my daughter capped at 20 minutes.

[Reefgazer]

I use Saxon and LoF because they are opposite one another and complement, rather than repeat the other curricula's method.  We use Saxon as the "spine" for DD because it has made her pretty strong in math, and LoF because I wanted something with a less-conventional approach that required her to think outside the box a bit more.  I am trying to convince her to substitute AoPS for LoF next year, but she loves Fred!

[Kerileanne99]

I put love of math above everything else in the early stages. We lucked out in that the first formal thing that we tried was a hit--the boys loved it, I loved it, everyone was happy and there was peace in our little part of the world!

Here is a vaguely insightful quote (from me) that I wrote in another thread...

 

Even though I am not intimately familiar with either of the math programs you mentioned, in your case, I would say go with MEP and use Rod and Staff to practice facts only if you need it to preserve love of math.

 

We used Math Mammoth from the beginning so that I could be sure that the boys would be immovably rock solid on elementary math. They had the concepts down and could do calculation problems with some guidance/support from me, but now they can just do the work. No 'ifs, ands or buts' about it. Now, I don't recommend this in general and know that *we* did a lot of overkill work at the elementary level--but my boys are seemingly are in the minority because they have done sit down work/worksheets since they were toddlers and it has not been a problem for us.

 

If something had been ruining their math-buzz, I'd have nixed it. As it stands, we've done Math Mammoth and Keys to but we are math fiends around here so it was like 90% enjoyable doing all that math. :) If it hadn't have been, I'd have gone with something else entirely.

I 1000x like this:)

 

I have also felt like we are in the minority as far as our approach. We are using several programs, and whilst I hear how many gifted kids are accelerated by test and skipping repetition? That is NOT us. I have had my kiddo do each and every problem (spine is Singapore but we went through RS A and B first). My dd seems to love the problems, regardless of difficulty, as long as I keep a math strand going with 'new math.'

 

So, for example we are working on fractions via Key to...and LoF, but she is still happy to work on faster recall for addition/subtraction and multiplication/division facts with (her words) 'easy-Peasy' worksheets.

 

We play with Hands on Equations one day per week, and devote an hour/day at least to math games for fun.

The point is, I do not think it is necessary to try to match up math programs, nor find opposite approaches. I do find that it works for us to have multiple strands going at once...this way she is content to work through innumerable problems encouraging automaticity whilst still allowing that exploring math spirit to flourish!

 

I also incorporate new strands, concepts, history, etc via math read alouds, LoF, mathematician stories/biographies, things like a bedtime math, Penrose the Cat, Daily Math Stumpers, etc., in our regular schedule. These are just part of life, but definitely build a 'math culture.'

[emily203]

Thank you everyone for all the ideas!! I think I was stressing about lining the math up/staying "on track", whatever that means, and its nice  to think about not worrying about that. I think the biggest thing is my dd likes to keep learning new things even if she needs some review of the old, and she picks up math quickly. So the insanely slow mastery pace of rod an  staff was burning her out, even using it "ahead". I am nervous about using MEP a  a spine but I think we would be happier with that an  using rod and staff just for occasional practice/reminder to me of basics she should know.

[lorisuewho]

Thank you everyone for all the ideas!! I think I was stressing about lining the math up/staying "on track", whatever that means, and its nice  to think about not worrying about that. I think the biggest thing is my dd likes to keep learning new things even if she needs some review of the old, and she picks up math quickly. So the insanely slow mastery pace of rod an  staff was burning her out, even using it "ahead". I am nervous about using MEP a  a spine but I think we would be happier with that an  using rod and staff just for occasional practice/reminder to me of basics she should know.

I know it is difficult to trust MEP as a spine, compared to the straight-forward programs, but I would encourage you to do so. Use the MEP teacher plans. Look ahead and open up year 5 or 6 and see what the students are doing. You will be encouraged that this is the awesome program you think it is. We are gearing up for year 4 of MEP next year and I'm still as excited about that as I am about going through year 1 for the the third time with my third child.

[Coco_Clark]

We use Singapore Primary M-Th, Life of Fred for fun on Fridays and Miquon over summer break or whenever a concept isn't getting through and we need to take a Singapore break.