First Form Latin

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Has anyone used this? What do/did you think?

[petepie2]

My DD is finishing up First Form this week. We love it! It's very systematic, with lots of drill. We use the DVDs.

[amyco]

We used it and loved it too.  You are going to get a really solid foundation in Latin if you use it, especially if you do all the reciting they recommend.  I loved the Latin phrases, too--a super clever way to help reinforce the grammar.  We did not use the DVDs.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Yay!! Good to hear!!

 

Is it good for a 5th grader who has completed Song School Latin 1 and 2?

 

Someone told me about it because we are in Classical Conversations, which uses Henle in Challenge- and I guess they are by the same people, or something?

[amyco]

A fifth grader that has had some Latin would have no problem with First Form.  First Form Latin is published by Memoria Press, and they are not the authors of Henle Latin--that is Fr. Robert Henle.  The Henle Latin Series is published by Loyola Press.  Memoria Press does sell all the Henle Latin materials, as well as some of their own study guides for Henle, and their Fourth Form Latin program utilizes Henle Latin.  Not sure how much Fourth Form Latin uses Henle--we switched before we got there. 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

A fifth grader that has had some Latin would have no problem with First Form. First Form Latin is published by Memoria Press, and they are not the authors of Henle Latin--that is Fr. Robert Henle. The Henle Latin Series is published by Loyola Press. Memoria Press does sell all the Henle Latin materials, as well as some of their own study guides for Henle, and their Fourth Form Latin program utilizes Henle Latin. Not sure how much Fourth Form Latin uses Henle--we switched before we got there.

Thanks for the info.... When a friend told me about it we were at a field trip and I was trying to keep the baby happy while the kids were learning about slavery- so I might have missed some of what she was saying, lol!

 

I'm glad to hear that it should work for him. I've been going back and forth over several other programs that I haven't been happy with, but I feel really good about this one :)

[Reefgazer]

What she said.  We're just starting it; we used Latina Christiana recently.  What are the ages of your children?  The reason I ask is that the ages for FFL recommended by Memoria Press would have been tough for my kids to follow along.

 

ETA:  I just saw your child is in 5th grade with previous Latin exposure.  I think FFL would be a perfect fit in that case! 

My DD is finishing up First Form this week. We love it! It's very systematic, with lots of drill. We use the DVDs.

 

[Guest]

Hyjacking to ask what if your child has had no Latin at all? Would FFL be the right place to start??

[KrissiK]

Hyjacking to ask what if your child has had no Latin at all? Would FFL be the right place to start??

I think a good starting point for a child with no Latin would be Latina Christiana. First Form is tough. Pluperfect tense, anyone? Future perfect? My son, a fifth grader is working through it. He's bright, but it's hard for him. Not frustrating. But challenging. We're taking a while to finish, because I stop and do a lot of remediation with him if he looks like he's not getting it, especially with the translations. I love Memoria Press's materials, I love their approach. We use the DVD's and they do a great job explaining. My son prefers Glenn on First Form to Leigh in the previous years, he's a little more succinct than she is. And he uses Legos as illustrations.

[mom2att]

I am just finishing up teaching First Form at our co-op.  The kids in the class are 4th- 7th grade.  For most of them, this is actually their 3rd year of Latin, as we began with Prima Latina, moved to Latina Christiana, and are now in FF.  It is a great sequence, but I will agree with the poster above in stating that I believe most children in elementary should begin either with Prima or LC.  FF reviews and solidifies what they have learned in those earlier programs, but then goes much deeper, particularly with the verb tenses and all 5 noun declensions.

 

For those looking to move into Henle in later years, this series is a good place to start in elementary or middle school.  I believe that the woman who authored the series used Henle as a guide, as the vocabulary acquisition and even the lesson progressions are similar.  Plus once they get to Fourth Form they are actually using the Henle text.

 

 

[mom2att]

 My son prefers Glenn on First Form to Leigh in the previous years, he's a little more succinct than she is. And he uses Legos as illustrations.

 

This is so true!  After a few lessons with Leigh I had to stop watching completely, because I just wanted her to get to the point already!  I watch the lessons with Glenn myself and then teach the lessons to my class.  He is much easier to watch.

 

[fourisenough]

Another hijack! Please help me place my child: she is a rising 4th or 5th grader (turning 10 in October), with very minimal Latin exposure (CC cycle 2 where we memorized 1st conjugation verb endings for 6 tenses). She has also done some roots study. She is accelerated in most areas, but will have a fairly heavy load this school year. LC? First Form?

[petepie2]

First Form moves very quickly. A 5th grader with no Latin experience can do it. LC moves slower and can be less intimidating.

 

Since my DD (4th grade) had Prima and LC, she didn't need to chant declensions/conjugations every day in First Form.  She did the DVD lesson on Mondays, and then divided up the exercises for the rest of the week. Yeah, there was plenty of new stuff, but she had a good bit under her belt. Even so, First Form is a big time commitment. I think she spent at least 4 hours a week. So I would think that a student starting cold in First Form would need to spend some time each day doing recitation. As such, First Form would probably be more of a time commitment for a child starting it with no Latin experience.

 

Also, the Form Series has the goal of mastery of grammar forms. Once completed, the student can go straight into Henle II. So, First Form has to be mastered before going to Second Form, etc. 

 

 

[julie4]

Another hijack! Please help me place my child: she is a rising 4th or 5th grader (turning 10 in October), with very minimal Latin exposure (CC cycle 2 where we memorized 1st conjugation verb endings for 6 tenses). She has also done some roots study. She is accelerated in most areas, but will have a fairly heavy load this school year. LC? First Form?

Listening in for answers to this too. My rising 6th grader with some latin experience will start First

Form in the fall, I would like my rising 4th grader (10 yo in December) to do the same program. She has done some prima Latina and Latin roots. And she is very strong in English grammar. Even if they move through at a different pace I'm hoping it will work for both.

[Kelly1730]

He uses Legos! My boys will love that:) We used LC I this year (sixth grade) and I'm glad we did. They have learned much and progressed well, it seemed to be just their speed. I'm looking forward to using FFL this fall. I feel like LCI gave them a solid background and we'll be ready to move on with more challenging work. 

[Reefgazer]

This is just my opinion, and Memoria Press has a different opinion, but if your child is in 5th grade with no prior Latin experience, Latina Christiana would be a comfortable place to start.  Any younger, and I'd use Prima Latina.

Hyjacking to ask what if your child has had no Latin at all? Would FFL be the right place to start??

 

[Reefgazer]

If it were my child, I would do Latina Christiana at that age and with that Latin exposure.  I do not think Prima Latina is too young, though, and is a gentler intro to Latin if one has no grammar exposure.

Another hijack! Please help me place my child: she is a rising 4th or 5th grader (turning 10 in October), with very minimal Latin exposure (CC cycle 2 where we memorized 1st conjugation verb endings for 6 tenses). She has also done some roots study. She is accelerated in most areas, but will have a fairly heavy load this school year. LC? First Form?

 

[RootAnn]

There is a LOT of writing in FFL. Some 4th graders could do FFL at "normal speed" - but some might have to take it slower.

LC moves slower (and, of course, covers less) and has less writing.

I agree with a previous poster that the DVD presenter for FFL is better than LC/PL for me & for my kids. He moves VERY QUICKLY though.

 

LC is a great intro to FFL for younger kids and for kids with minimal Latin exposure. DD#1 isn't quite finished with FFL, but she's close. The DVD teacher had sun glasses & a "rear view mirror" attached to them in the most recent video I saw.  :coolgleamA: He's funny. (I think he's only the teacher for FFL & SFL.)

 

My dd#2 & dd#3 will be doing LC1 in the fall. DD#2 did it when she was younger (3rd?) and will definitely benefit from doing it again. That will put us in a place for them to start FFL in 7th & 4th. Depending on how dd#3 does in LC1, I might have her do a year of "Latin Review" or half-speed FFL the following year. 

[Tiramisu]

I've been involved in teaching the FF series to kids in a coop setting for several years and my own dd went up to Fourth Form until we switched to the program that is used at the high school she will attend. She started in fourth grade with no Latin background. Most other kids also started between fourth and sixth grades with no Latin background. All did fine as long as they did the work consistently. I personally like the idea of starting FF at half pace with kids in fourth or fifth grade. I don't think Prima or Latina Christian are necessary as much as adjusting the pace to the child's need. I think the lesson, recitation, and one workbook page a day is a very comfortable pace for younger students.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Thanks everyone! I've decided that we will use it next year! I don't know if it will take us one year, or two to get through, but we're doing it :)

[mom2att]

Aside from the pace and amount of info learned, the biggest difference between Latina Christiana and First Form is the amount of work required.  LC has two workbook pages for each lesson with a minimal amount of writing.  As I recall there are also tests and quizzes, but they are short.

 

First Form has at least 4, sometimes 5 or 6 workbook pages with each lesson.  There is also a tests and quizzes book with a one-page quiz for every lesson and a 3, 4 or 5 page test for each Unit.  It is A LOT of writing.  It's not necessarily difficult, but it is copious. 

 

So for an elementary child who is not fond of pencil-heavy workbook assignments, LC might be a better choice.  With FF I have used the option of doing odds/evens or even acting as scribe for my elementary child, but if starting from the beginning with this age, I would definitely take the workload into account.

[KrissiK]

I think a major difference between FFL and LC, besides the amount of written work, is the concepts the child is expected to understand. Declensions are relatively easy, if you know your parts of speech, what a direct object is, etc., but those verb tenses.... They do not necessarily have a direct correlation in English and I don't even really understand most of them. Even though we do recitations every day, and my boys can rattle off the conjugations and declensions, we still use all the charts for translations. Maybe that's expected, but it's challenging. Fun, but challenging!

[arcara]

We love FF here! My 8th grader is finishing 2nd Form now and asked if she could go ahead and start 3rd Form this summer.

 

I split FF into two years for my 3rd and 4th grader. I had them do the first 12 lessons on verbs slowly over a year. Then they complete the second half on nouns the second year. After that solid start, they should be ready to pick up the pace with 2nd Form as 5th and 6th graders.

 

I've tried LC a couple of times, but I found it to be rather random without sufficient practice.

[Mbelle]

We are finishing FF now at the end of 6th.  It has gone well.  A few years ago we did Prima Latina.  We really liked its gentle intro and we also really liked the Leigh Lowe DVD. Honestly, I like it much better than the FF DVD.    With my 3rd child I would ideally like to do Prima in 4th and then just go straight to FF in 5th so we could get through all the forms before high school.  

[shburks]

This post is so timely...I was just coming to ask the same question!  5th grader with NO prior Latin experience.  Memoria Press recommended First Form when I emailed them, but it sounds like everyone here is saying to do Latina Christiana first.  Is that right?

 

What about the CDs?  Are they necessary?  Helpful?

[RootAnn]

Shburks - How comfortable are you with Latin? If you aren't, get the DVDs.

How much grammar has your "rising 5th grader" done? If a lot, then you should be fine with First Form. If not a ton, you might want to start with LC1.

You can certainly adapt First Form for a 5th grader. Don't try to cram an entire lesson full of work into one week. Take your time - watch the DVD, do the chants every lesson day, listen to the audio CD, try the drills (in student book), do a workbook page every day. Pull out the flashcards a couple times a week. It'll take more than a year to get through, but you're not in a hurry are you?

 

As your kid gets older & more comfortable with Latin, you can increase the pace - two worksheets in a day - maybe eventually getting to the pace of a lesson a week.

[shburks]

Shburks - How comfortable are you with Latin? If you aren't, get the DVDs.

How much grammar has your "rising 5th grader" done? If a lot, then you should be fine with First Form. If not a ton, you might want to start with LC1.

You can certainly adapt First Form for a 5th grader. Don't try to cram an entire lesson full of work into one week. Take your time - watch the DVD, do the chants every lesson day, listen to the audio CD, try the drills (in student book), do a workbook page every day. Pull out the flashcards a couple times a week. It'll take more than a year to get through, but you're not in a hurry are you?

 

As your kid gets older & more comfortable with Latin, you can increase the pace - two worksheets in a day - maybe eventually getting to the pace of a lesson a week.

RootAnn--I'm fairly comfortable with Latin.  I took Latin in high school as did my husband...but that HAS been a few years ago!  My son has a good grammar base, but I would say it's his weakest subject being much more of a science/math kid who loves reading and history but really dislikes the grammar side of things!

 

I do like your thoughts on how to approach FF, but I almost wonder if he would get frustrated with it if he knew we were "taking it slow."  He opted to start Latin this year rather than French because he thinks it'll give him a good base for the other languages!  I'm not in a hurry, but I feel like he might be...and might frustrate him to know that a particular text is not going to be finished in a year.

 

Knowing that grammar is his weakest subject and knowing his temperament, I think I've just talked myself into LC1 for this year!  If we go through it quicker than I anticipate, I suppose we could start FF after that.

[KrissiK]

This post is so timely...I was just coming to ask the same question! 5th grader with NO prior Latin experience. Memoria Press recommended First Form when I emailed them, but it sounds like everyone here is saying to do Latina Christiana first. Is that right?

 

What about the CDs? Are they necessary? Helpful?

I would do Latina Christiana. It just kind of gets your feet wet with Latin in a more gentle and non-threatening way. Plus, it gives a good base learning vocab. A lot of the vocab in First Form was introduced in LC. And that's a good thing because FF has a lot of memory work and if it's all new, it can be overwhelming. My son is doing First Form this year. He does have a strong grammar base (Rod and Staff), but I think it really helped that he did both Prima Latina and Latina Christiana. And we do the DVDs. I couldn't teach it without them.