Testing your child

[SierraNevada]

Okay, so at some point, kids need to learn to test. I know they push it earlier and earlier these days, putting standardized tests in K. But what I am wondering, is that as a hs'er, at what age do you start testing? Just generalized, end of unit, or end of year tests? I've held off and only had DS do one end of year math test once. I was easy on him-- letting him split it up over four days so he didn't feel stressed by it. I've never made him test on anything else-- just letting him enjoy learning. So when ought I introduce The Test? Posting on the Acc Learner board because he is very advanced-- working on 5th grade level but just six. So that might very well change the answers I get. Thanks.

[quark]

No generalized end of unit, end of year tests here in the context that you mentioned from 5-young 7yo. There was no need. Working so closely together, and always discussing, answering and posing questions back orally were enough for us.

 

After seeing how bored he was, I used an out of level CA Achievement Test when he was 7.5yo for acceleration decisions. He took the CTY SCAT too but we eventually didn't use CTY programs. I found out a few months later that the acceleration (from CAT) was not enough. I learned about Explore and used that when he was 8yo. The results gave me confidence to compact more actively and I was able to use it for the DYS application.

 

The online programs he used from 9yo onwards included quizzes/ tests after every unit and exams after every 5-6 chapters. The feedback from those outside instructors were very helpful to him. And to me too. His math mentor does not test. Online AoPS class, no test. The CA STAR and Scantron tests administered by the charter school were a waste of time. I didn't glean any info that I didn't already know.

 

We didn't introduce specific test taking strategies on a formal basis. He did some sample questions for the Explore and briefly looked through the SCAT sample. (ETA: I forgot to add that I did find some bubble sheets online to help him practice filling the bubble completely). All the other standardized tests were taken cold. He works consistently so did not need special prep other than coursework already completed for quizzes/ tests for outsourced classes.

[lewelma]

I have told my older son that tests have three purposes:

1. To motivate ( this is by far the best reason to test)

2. To tick the boxes to get into something ( a necessary evil)

3. To track your progress ( often not needed in a home school)

 

So we have used tests in subjects where he is not motivated, specifically music theory, or in subjects where you need some motivation to consolidate your learning, like physics for my older Ds.

 

He is in 8th grade now and he has taken:

3 music performance exams ( in 3rd, 4 th, and 6th grades) and one music theory exam (7th grade, all through ABRSM)

1 take home exam to get into his math camp (7 th grade)

The BMO (British math Olympiad, 7th grade)

They were all external exams.

 

Starting this year he will take his first homeschooling tests -- for physics. This is to help motivate him to consolidate his learning He has taken no other internal tests or quizzes, ever.

 

My ds has not found the lack of test taking practice to be a problem. We just make sure to do lots of test prep before an external exam.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Dmmetler]

My DD tested on the SAT-10 in K, and when we came home to HS, DH really wanted some test at the end of the year, so she took the SAT-10 in 1st (which qualified her for CTY) and in 2nd (where we used it through Belin-Blank to let her start taking the EXPLORE, which qualified her for Davidson). She took the EXPLORE again this year because she seems to enjoy the group testing, and it's a quick way to get a data point that, should she need to return to PS, would document her actual acceleration.

 

She also takes a lot of outside exams as part of competitions, by choice, many of which involve scantron cards or proctored blue books.

 

 

I don't test at all in our homeschool as far as end of unit/book tests because there's no point. However, most of the things we do have cumulative reviews and when she goes through the review, I can see if we need to go back and revisit anything. So far, she hasn't been in an outside course that has tests.

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Starting in 3rd--TerraNova

6th--EXPLORE and SCAT

7th--ACT

 

We started doing homeschooling tests in one or two subjects this year (7th).

[MinivanMom]

We test each year with the Iowa, because our state requires annual testing. I try to make it a fun, low-key experience and my kids seem to have developed pretty positive attitudes about standardized testing. I don't think it's necessary to do anything beyond that unless it gives my kids the opportunity to qualify for specific services or experiences. My oldest took the Explore this year and she will take the SAT in 7th, so that she can qualify for summer camps & classes through CTY and Duke TIP.

 

I don't do any tests within our homeschool, because I don't feel they are necessary; I know where my kids are at academically. That will probably change once they are doing courses for high school credit. We'll see.

[Kathy G]

We don't do alot of testing at homeschool. (although in weak moments I threaten it ;)  We have to do a standardized test yearly-- legally so we do ITBS.  DH became a test administrator so it would be easier.  We have done various talent searches as they got older and wanted the scores for camps etc.  I think it is good to introduce the idea and the structure because they will need it in the future.

[Crimson Wife]

DD took the SCAT, a grade-level CAT, and then an above-level ITBS/CogAT in 2nd. The CAT was totally useless for planning purposes because it was too easy, which is why I gave her the ITBS/CogAT. In 3rd, she did the EXPLORE. 5th she did another above-level ITBS. This year in 6th, she'll do the SAT (was supposed to take it in Jan but we had to reschedule to March after an epic Google Maps fail).

 

DS will do an above-level ITBS/CogAT this year and also the SCAT (I'm planning to do the ITBS/CogAT in April so I need to get my order in soon). Next year, he'll presumably take the ACT Aspire (which is the replacement for the EXPLORE), assuming that the programs that require EXPLORE scores accept the Aspire.

 

I find the ITBS to be the most useful for academic planning purposes, and the talent search tests to be the most useful for gaining access to GATE opportunities. The SCAT is the least helpful and I wish CTY would just accept the EXPLORE like the other talent search providers do.

[Tracy]

It seems to me that if a child is advanced, that is a reason not to test. Because their output generally doesn't match their input, it is going to be hard to get an accurate measure.  I would wait until the child the asynchronicity evens out.

[quark]

It seems to me that if a child is advanced, that is a reason not to test. Because their output generally doesn't match their input, it is going to be hard to get an accurate measure.  I would wait until the child the asynchronicity evens out.

 

On hindsight I wouldn't have bothered about the SCAT and CAT (it was revealing to some extent because he took the 8th grade test but not as useful as the Explore, also an 8th grade level test). I smile at myself sometimes because at the time I wanted to find a way to slow him down. I wanted proof that he had a ton of gaps and couldn't be going as fast as it looked like he was going. And the areas where gaps were fewer, it was so interesting to see how we could use the results to experiment with levels, and satisfying to see his boredom disappear as we hit closer and closer to his sweet spot. Oddly, although he doesn't enjoy writing/ written output activities, he did not have a lot of trouble with the Explore. He took the CAT over 5 days and that was just manageable without resistance at 7.5yo but at 8 years and 3 months or so, it wasn't a stretch to do the 2-hour Explore in one sitting. Each child will be different of course.

 

I also did not test with the view of him receiving an exceptional score. I didn't have interest in awards etc although I think if I had told him he could win awards he might have been motivated to do even better. It was purely for diagnostic reasons using more affordable tools and within what I knew about testing at the time.

 

I have to disagree with the bolded in my specific circumstances. I don't see kiddo's asynchrony evening out any time soon. It's a little hard to see that happening even when he is 13 or 14. He is too asynchronous. To a certain extent testing at the younger ages, especially going in cold, can be a revealing experience. Perhaps not entirely accurate of the child's abilities but still revealing and helpful when you are facing asynchrony like the one OP mentions. Kiddo was the equivalent of about 5-6 years ahead in math at 6 too. I just didn't know it. The gaps with written math closed to about 4+ years when he started geometry (compared with students taking it in junior high at honors level) and he is at that level still with algebra 2. But conceptually he is hitting about 6-8 years again with the math he does with his mentor where he is allowed to soar without being overly bogged down by output. I have no idea really what level the AoPS class is at. Don't even ask where he is with writing ability lol.

 

The asynchrony is his normal. I don't see it evening out, at least not in the near future.

 

ETA: if you are referring to unit tests/ end of chapter tests etc then yes, I agree that it's not necessary to test when you can see for yourself how your young child is doing. But you might also have a child hitting advanced levels that you can no longer challenge/ homeschool yourself. When you outsource, it is in a sense out of your hands (unless you have an agreement with the instructor not to test and you don't plan to use those grade records...but there are benefits to the child learning to take those outsourced tests too.)

[SierraNevada]

Thank you for all the responses. I was really asking about just end of unit/year tests. I am surprised by the answers that many of you gave. I did not know that so many hs'ers skipped testing. I guess it makes sense in that we know where are kids are and what things they struggle with. It just feels odd for him to get to be 12 and never have had a test. What I the SAT or some other talent search is his first test ever?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Some children ace the first test they ever take, which happens to be the ACT or SAT.  Often it is told that there was zero test prep. For each of those stories there is likely to be one (or many) in which the outcome was not as positive.

 

My daughter has left tests a bit dazed by some comments of other talent search testers. They simply had no idea how to go about the test. One child didn't even know to fill in bubbles until it was explained after the test started. (She just wrote in the book at first.) The child's comments after the test were disheartening. :sad:

 

 

[Dmmetler]

This is one reason why I like tests like the ELE and the NME-they're standard, bubble, multiple choice format tests, but they're also very, very low stakes, because the only consequence to not doing well is not getting a medal or getting a differently worded certificate. They're not tricky as far as wording goes, they come almost straight from the syllabus,  and you can sit down after the test with the test book and, completely legally, go through it with the kids. They're short, and have a long-enough time limit that it doesn't feel pressured (I've NEVER had a student take the full 40 minutes. Usually it's under 30). It's a great test to practice testing.  Math Kangaroo is also good for this for the same reason.

 

I had my DD do a practice ACT last year before the EXPLORE because the EXPLORE really was her first "bubble test" ever and I didn't want her to panic or not know what to do.

[regentrude]

Okay, so at some point, kids need to learn to test. I know they push it earlier and earlier these days, putting standardized tests in K. But what I am wondering, is that as a hs'er, at what age do you start testing?

 

Unless your state demands testing, I see no reason to test before high school.

 

[quark]

Thank you for all the responses. I was really asking about just end of unit/year tests. I am surprised by the answers that many of you gave. I did not know that so many hs'ers skipped testing. I guess it makes sense in that we know where are kids are and what things they struggle with. It just feels odd for him to get to be 12 and never have had a test. What I the SAT or some other talent search is his first test ever?

 

I agree with dmmetler and Woodland Mist.

 

Zero test prep in terms of content might be a good step for diagnostic reasons but that shouldn't mean that the child goes in at 12 not knowing what the format is like. I don't think of familiarizing kiddos with format as test prep per se. I imagine test prep to be some dedicated content practice over a certain period of time with the view towards doing well in the test. But to familiarize them with format you don't need weeks of prepping. A day or two, maybe a week at most, is enough to look at and practice important details like time limit, number of questions, types of questions, bubbling sheet, the sheet you fill in name, test site etc.

 

This is assuming a child has still taken a class or consistently self studied what is going to be tested. Kiddo won't need weeks of test prep for SAT's math section for example because that's the level of math he has been doing for the last 2-3 years in a very consistent fashion. However, I am glad that he is practicing filling in the form that precedes the practice test because the first time he did it, he didn't read it carefully and filled in his first name where he should have written his last name. :)

 

For college apps/ college class audit/ even more acceleration etc, the general wisdom is to test (ACT, SAT, subject tests etc) right after the same level course was taken. Makes life easier.

 

Use ACT/ SAT if you suspect your child will ceiling on Explore etc despite not having done dedicated coursework (e.g. we did Explore when he was 8 and had enough data to help him, otherwise I would have done ACT at 9 because he was either topping out or already close to ceiling scores at 8). I won't send a younger child or tween in completely cold (i.e. not even having seen test format even if content is new) without having seen at least the format of the test.

 

Also, at 11, 12, etc you should hopefully have their buy-in in order to test with SAT, ACT etc. Easier to test when a child wants to do it.

[Connections]

I agree wholeheartedly that testing is a skill which needs to be learned. However, there is something about "real" testing that I cannot seem to replicate in our homeschool classes. Therefore, we have used standardized tests to learn and practice these skills. We did one CAT at home when they were younger because we were considering enrolling in a program and we would use the results for placement. After that, the EXPLORE and the AMC 8 (taken at a school) were the first on-site testing experiences they had. We will also include at-home math exams beginning with Algebra 1 as "finals" but not chapter exams.

 

If one is going to homeschool all the way through high school I actually think the "big, high stakes" testing situations will be great preparation for college exams. Unless things have changed drastically since my college days, we never took multiple end of the chapters exams.

 

Of course, some students may benefit from chapter exams in all subjects and some homeschool moms and dads may prefer to include them. I am simply stating that I do not think that it is necessary to test frequently in order to prepare a student for testing. I also do not think that it is something that has to be practiced at a young age.

[Crimson Wife]

Unless your state demands testing, I see no reason to test before high school.

There are special opportunities available to children who have high test scores, and taking something like the EXPLORE or SAT/ACT can be one of the cheapest ways of qualifying for those programs (an individual IQ and achievement test battery can easily cost $1000 or more).

[boscopup]

Are you talking about standardized testing or subject testing? I haven't done any standardized testing yet. I am thinking I'll do one for my oldest this year (4th grade), mostly to give him the experience.

 

I do things like math tests as they come up in the curriculum. My kids aren't scared of tests - they don't see anything different about them really. They're more of a verification to Mom that yes, they learned the material and are ready to move on. Sometimes they'll understand while doing a lesson, but then at the end of the chapter it's clear on a test that they didn't commit it to long term memory past the lesson where it was used, so that's the benefit of the test in that instance. I'm pretty relaxed about tests though. Really, they're no different than regular work, except that I won't help them with a problem until they do corrections later.

 

When we used Math Mammoth at an accelerated pace, I used the chapter tests to determine if we could skip the chapter.

When using Singapore, we did the end of semester/book test before moving on.

In CLE, I give the end of light unit test, but I don't bother with the quizzes during the light unit.

I have not given any kind of test in AoPS as of yet, as they didn't provide one. I think regentrude posted tests for the Intro to Algebra? Whatever she posted, I have that saved for future use. :D

I've used the Latin tests in Lively Latin.

I try to do spelling tests, though we skip the test some weeks. :p

 

Most of our subjects don't have tests associated with them, so I haven't tested in those subjects. I haven't done any kind of tests that necessitated *studying* prior to the test. I've only assessed what's currently in memory just to verify to myself that yep, they're getting it. My oldest is only in 4th grade. I would expect a high school student to need to study for a test.

[SeaConquest]

DD took the SCAT, a grade-level CAT, and then an above-level ITBS/CogAT in 2nd. The CAT was totally useless for planning purposes because it was too easy, which is why I gave her the ITBS/CogAT. In 3rd, she did the EXPLORE. 5th she did another above-level ITBS. This year in 6th, she'll do the SAT (was supposed to take it in Jan but we had to reschedule to March after an epic Google Maps fail).

 

DS will do an above-level ITBS/CogAT this year and also the SCAT (I'm planning to do the ITBS/CogAT in April so I need to get my order in soon). Next year, he'll presumably take the ACT Aspire (which is the replacement for the EXPLORE), assuming that the programs that require EXPLORE scores accept the Aspire.

 

I find the ITBS to be the most useful for academic planning purposes, and the talent search tests to be the most useful for gaining access to GATE opportunities. The SCAT is the least helpful and I wish CTY would just accept the EXPLORE like the other talent search providers do.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the advantage in testing into multiple talent search programs? For some reason, I thought geographic location was the main driver for why people pick program x, y, or z? I also thought most of the classes were overpriced and not really worth it. What's the advantage to testing into these programs, if not for the courses?

[Crimson Wife]

There is one selective program in particular that require a teacher's recommendation from an non-relative and the CTY online courses (while pricey) are really good for that because the teacher can compare the child not with typical peers but with other talent search participants.

 

It's very annoying that the different talent searches require different tests and even for the tests that are used in more than one talent search, different programs have different starting grades (3rd vs. 4th for the EXPLORE, 6th vs. 7th for the SAT). The upside is that having multiple sets of test scores does help build a stronger portfolio for programs that look at a holistic application.

[lewelma]

I was really asking about just end of unit/year tests.

 

What do you hope to gain from this type of testing? I think that the answer will inform your decision.

 

[SierraNevada]

Lewelma,

It's not really what I hope to gain. I just see his friends in PS testing, and I feel it a bit, well-- awkward or strange that he hasn't had to do any. Not even a spelling test. It makes me question if I am being a good HS'er. :) I don't really feel like I have a need to do it, as I know where he stands. But it just feels wrong to be of school age and not have a single test in your life.

[Dmmetler]

Lewelma,

It's not really what I hope to gain. I just see his friends in PS testing, and I feel it a bit, well-- awkward or strange that he hasn't had to do any. Not even a spelling test. It makes me question if I am being a good HS'er. :) I don't really feel like I have a need to do it, as I know where he stands. But it just feels wrong to be of school age and not have a single test in your life.

 

My DD, a couple of years back, was waiting to start cheer practice when some of the girls were complaining about how HARD 3rd grade was and the number of tests they have each week. DD piped up with " I'm homeschooled-I don't take tests". When the other girls responded with "Lucky!!", she replied "Yes, I am-it leaves more time for Latin and Greek!".

[quark]

My DD, a couple of years back, was waiting to start cheer practice when some of the girls were complaining about how HARD 3rd grade was and the number of tests they have each week. DD piped up with " I'm homeschooled-I don't take tests". When the other girls responded with "Lucky!!", she replied "Yes, I am-it leaves more time for Latin and Greek!".

 

Cool kid! :)

 

[lewelma]

Lewelma,

It's not really what I hope to gain. I just see his friends in PS testing, and I feel it a bit, well-- awkward or strange that he hasn't had to do any. Not even a spelling test. It makes me question if I am being a good HS'er. :) I don't really feel like I have a need to do it, as I know where he stands. But it just feels wrong to be of school age and not have a single test in your life.

 

Actually, one of the reasons I wanted to homeschool is to avoid testing.  Testing throughout school gave me so much anxiety that I developed clinical OCD at university.  Although I have finally recovered, I still have nightmares about testing when I was school age.  And I was a very good student.

 

Clearly, you know that testing does not equal learning; in fact, it takes time away from learning just like dmmeter's little girl noted.  So in my eyes I need a *good* reason to test rather than a good reason *not* to test.   There are good reasons to test, which is why I ask you what you hoped to gain.  The reasons I have come up with are:

 

1) to motivate a student to learn. 

2) to motivate a student to consolidate learning by studying (this is different #1 for my older ds who loves to learn *new* stuff, but does not like to review)

3) to learn how to study (this is also different from #2, because a student might be motivated to study and not know how, or vice versa)

4) to practice test taking skills -- time management, reading the full question, answering appropriately, etc

5) to reduce anxiety through habituation (this did NOT work for me, and did the exact opposite, but I am sure it depends on the child)

 

Then of course in a slightly different category in my mind

6) to get you into a program, summer camp, scholarships, state-required testing, etc

7) to help your teachers know where you stand

 

The first 5 are good reasons to test (well not #5 for me), so the question is when.  When is a good time to start?  And how much?  How much testing is enough to accomplish your goals?

 

We decided to use ds's music to achieve goals 1-4, starting in 3rd grade.  The tests motivated him to learn, required him to study/drill, taught him study skills, and allowed him to practice test taking.  The main difference being that he did these tests 1 on 1 with an examiner and a violin!  We found that 1 test per year was enough to achieve the goals, so did not add end-of-term tests.  By 7th grade we decided that he needed practice with a timed, written test, so he did a music theory written exam.  Next year, 8th grade we will add a test that requires lots of writing under time pressure (physics in NZ requires lots of written explanations), and two intense, timed tests in mathematics (BMO and the NZ IMO squad selection test). Both will require lots of studying for specific types of problems, and we will use lots of previous exams to insure he knows what to expect.  I am also adding end-of-term tests for physics to help him specifically with goals #2 and #3.  He will be 13-14 when he takes these tests.

 

This approach seems to be enough for *this* child.  But clearly each child is different and homeschooling allows you to tailor the learning program.

 

My point is, really think about what you hope to achieve by testing, and implement a program to reach those goals on a time table relevant to your child.  You really don't need to follow the herd on this one.

 

Ruth in NZ