Changing definitions of words/cursing in children's literature

[shanvan]

Last week I started reading to my kids "Babe: the Gallant Pig" and the word "b@tch" comes up a few times to refer to the female dog. While I know it is accurate I hadn't heard it used that way in quite a while so it surprised me.

 

My Dc were surprised to learn it is considered a curse word.  They are around breeders and dog shows enough that they only knew it as a female dog.  When someone informed me 'there is a reason they're called bitches' b/c of the way her bitch in season was behaving, I had to explain it to Dd.   Anyone involved seriously with dogs is going to hear it all the time.

 

​I think it's nice when kids don't know the slang meanings.  We have never shied away from reading aloud words like faggot and gay.  I very matter-of-factly explain how the meaning of the word has come to change.  

[boysrus]

Again, I need to learn to quote, but I've NEVER heard the word "pussy" used in any way other than  to describe a female's genitalia.  Although, I believe its still commonly used for cat in England.   And in the lesson the word "cat" or "kitty" is never used, just pussy...petting it, loving it, not being bad to it so it won't go away....My husband said he got a little aroused reading the lesson.

[Walking-Iris]

Again, I need to learn to quote, but I've NEVER heard the word "pussy" used in any way other than  to describe a female's genitalia.  Although, I believe its still commonly used for cat in England.   And in the lesson the word "cat" or "kitty" is never used, just pussy...petting it, loving it, not being bad to it so it won't go away....My husband said he got a little aroused reading the lesson.

 

Really? That's pretty much the only meaning of it here.

 

 

There are some words I don't even worry about. The ass references in Peter Pan and others like them. Damn and such. Faggot when it's referring to wood, the Harry Potter bloody hells,  I don't even blink at those words.

 

I do however try to steer clear of words that I really don't want my children saying. I was shocked at the use of slut in a Roald Dahl poem, that would be word on my do not say list.

 

I cringe at the use of pussy in Mother Goose rhymes. Sometimes I just read it and don't think of it, but most times I'll say kitty.

 

I will NOT use the word nigger or fag around my children. I won't change it in books like Huck Finn...but when we study Twain they will be old enough to understand the historical context. Not when they are younger. 

 

I don't have a problem with gay or queer because it usually has the regular meaning of happy or odd in older books. 

 

But so far those are the only 4 words I've found that I would have a hard time saying.

 

Idiot bothers me. My DH and I feel that is is just an ugly word. I haven't come across it in our reading that I can recall, but it seems every animated movie has a handful of scenes where someone gets called an idiot. So we've talked about this one a lot, how we feel it's just a mean ugly thing to call someone no matter the context or intention. Same with calling someone "stupid." And I automatically judge anyone who drops the word "retarted" like  a joke into conversation----I hate that times a million. 

 

Old books typically don't bother me....it's the new modern books that I get testy about. Junie B Jones (she's just a mean little brat isn't she?), Big Nate comics (again mean name calling), Diary of a Wimpy Kid (I find these having views towards girls that I don't want my ds thinking is okay), Captain Underpants....

 

My oldest ds has read them and I don't like to ban certain books, but I definitely limit these somewhat. Old books? Usually not an issue. 

[RootAnn]

There was an almost identical thread to this last year. I still find myself changing "a$$" to donkey when I read aloud (same as my comment in the last thread). Otherwise, I read 'em as they are. (My kids memorized the cat poem when they were young. I have no issue with it. Thus my kids need no explanation for Puss in Boots. It isn't Cat in Boots or Kitt in Boots.)

 

I probably rub a lot of people the wrong way because 'idiot' and 'stupid' have definitely crossed my lips.

 

I'm thankful for the addition of the videos with the proper pronunciation of Kant's name. I have always heard it as "Kahnt." (Close, but not quite the same as how people where I grew up pronounce "can't.") When next having a discussion involving that particular philosopher, I'll make sure to say it the correct way.

[vonfirmath]

Again, I need to learn to quote, but I've NEVER heard the word "pussy" used in any way other than  to describe a female's genitalia.  Although, I believe its still commonly used for cat in England.   And in the lesson the word "cat" or "kitty" is never used, just pussy...petting it, loving it, not being bad to it so it won't go away....My husband said he got a little aroused reading the lesson.

 

Whereas I know some people use pussy that way, but my first thought is always the cat because its just not that frequently used in my circles for anything but kitties.

[regentrude]

Again, I need to learn to quote, but I've NEVER heard the word "pussy" used in any way other than  to describe a female's genitalia. 

 

I have NEVER heard the word pussy used for female genitalia. Just for cats.

But then, I have never heard the people I associate with use any slang for body parts.

 

ETA: So you are not familiar with the fairy tale "Puss in boots"?

 

[regentrude]

. Same with calling someone "stupid."

 

 

So what would be an appropriate word for a stupid person? (It's not like by not saying the word,  stupidity magically goes away.)

 

 Really curious, as English is not my foreign language.

Would it be OK to say dumb? Ignorant? - that would not be quite the same thing.

 

ETA: It goes without saying that you would not say the word TO the person. But there must be an adjective that can be used to describe such a person.

[redsquirrel]

Not even that old song, "what's new pussy cat?"

 

I love that song. But, I have a fondness for Burt Bacharach

 

and my sisters and I used to have So Much Fun playing Josie and the Pussycats! We used to watch it, and have absolutely no idea what was going on. Were they in space in the future? Were they mystery crime fighters? Were they friends with Scooby Doo? Did that mean that Scooby Doo was in the future and space? So many questions! But we loved it.

 

Now I am going to be singing that theme song all day....

[boysrus]

Oh yes, I've heard the term pussy cat and Puss in Boots and the like...in literature, songs and such.  But as far as using the term "pussy" on its own, not followed by cat, female genitalia every time.  If my children went around saying that word, it would shocking, probably more so than the f word.  I'm in the south and nicknames for genitalia are very common, even among adults.  Or maybe its just the ruffian crowd I run with.

[kiana]

So what would be an appropriate word for a stupid person? (It's not like by not saying the word,  stupidity magically goes away.)

 

 Really curious, as English is not my foreign language.

Would it be OK to say dumb? Ignorant? - that would not be quite the same thing.

 

ETA: It goes without saying that you would not say the word TO the person. But there must be an adjective that can be used to describe such a person.

 

I am not walking-iris, but reading her post it sounded more like they were being called stupid/idiot to their faces, which is definitely rude.

[regentrude]

I am not walking-iris, but reading her post it sounded more like they were being called stupid/idiot to their faces, which is definitely rude.

 

I get that, of course. But I have heard of parents who prohibit their children to use the word "stupid" even when NOT directed at another person... this I do not understand. Some people and things are just... stupid.

[stripe]

My husband said he got a little aroused reading the lesson.

Goodness.

So what would be an appropriate word for a stupid person? (It's not like by not saying the word,  stupidity magically goes away.)

 

 Really curious, as English is not my foreign language.

Would it be OK to say dumb? Ignorant? - that would not be quite the same thing.

 

ETA: It goes without saying that you would not say the word TO the person. But there must be an adjective that can be used to describe such a person.

 

FYI, one of my pet peeves is when stupid people (and yes, I mean stupid, and no, I'm not referring to anyone here) use the word "ignorant" to mean "stupid" because they think it makes them sound smarter.  The two words are NOT synonyms!

[IsabelC]

Ignorant generally means lacking in knowledge. It can be very specific, too (for example, I am reasonably well educated, but I am ignorant regarding the rules of baseball, because this is something I have never learned). Ignorance is independent of intelligence.

 

Dumb is often used as a slang term for stupid, but it really means incapable of speaking (for example, Helen Keller was deaf and dumb). Needless to say, this is also different to level of intelligence or presence/absence of learning disabilities.

 

Stupid means pretty much only that. I don't consider it rude unless you are using it to insult somebody. (Example, when my kid calls her sister stupid, I will tell her that's a put-down and isn't allowed. But when they found out that black people used to be slaves just because they were black, and she said "that's a stupid rule", I did not correct her because, hey, it was a stupid rule.)

 

The problem with finding a good word to use for people with cognitive disabilities is the stigma drift phenomenon (maybe that's the wrong term, I'm not sure if I remember it correctly). Basically if you call those people X, then X will tend to become an insult. You then change the official term to Y, but before long Y also becomes an insult. This will continue until the underlying stigma is eliminated. (As an example, try calling a child special and notice how many kids will actually take this as an insult.) 

 

The easiest solution is twofold:

1. Don't mention the disability unless it is directly relevant to the topic at hand.

2. If you need to mention it, state the specific diagnosis if known, or otherwise state the specific issue the person has.

Following those guidelines, we then don't actually need a general word.

[mommymilkies]

Perhaps you mean "gay" since "queer" originally meant strange.

That's what happens when you don't have caffeine all day. :p