AAS application and actual spelling improvement

[Annie Laurie]

My 9 year old can read very well but can not spell. We had gone through 2 levels of AAS in the past and I didn't see any improvement in his spelling, but I got it out again recently because nothing else has helped either. We are now part way through level 2 and once again, I see no improvement, but we both find it hard to apply the spelling rules to his writing. He says he can memorize the rules, but then when he's writing, it's hard for him to remember what would apply to what situation. I have to admit that I am the same way- they just feel like random rules, and it's hard to remember to stop him when he can't remember how to spell something and think through those rules and apply them.

 

Any suggestions? Is this something that just takes time and practice? When he writes something, do I go over spelling rules when we're editing it or when would we do that? I can see reminding him when he asks me how to spell something, but for his spelling to really improve, this needs to become something he can apply himself. I'm really confused about this rules-based method as I am a visual speller and never had problems with spelling as a kid, so I don't know if my expectations are just off, or what.

[Terabith]

I think it's a great program, because I really think it is helpful to know the whys, but I REALLY like Apples and Pears and it sounds like it might be a better fit in your situation.

[SarahW]

Do you do the dictation sentences?

 

As my kid writes those words I often ask questions like, "why is that a ck?" "Is that one L or two?" and so on. I expect him to answer by repeating the rule to me. This gets him to think through how to spell as he is writing.

 

I don't understand your comment about "random rules." They are spelling rules. They are what they are. You either accept them or you don't. If you don't believe in spelling rules, then neither will your kid. I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm just saying that because if that's your approach then no spelling curriculum will work.

[Rachel TX]

I have a child who is an excellent reader and poor speller. She memorizes the patterns in spelling lists so quickly, but she doesn't apply what she learned to her writing. I am going to try more spelling through dictation which I learned about from this forum. We're going to try the vintage Wheeler's Elementary Spelling (free Google ebook) which uses spelling words in the context of rich sentences from literature. 

[Ottakee]

I loved Apples and Pears spelling as it really carried over into other work and very few rules to memorize.

[MrsH]

We find the same thing, and I decided that for us it was probably less due to the curriculum and more due to my daughter's learning.  I also think we were moving too quickly through the book, and so it wasn't fully sinking in.  Right now we're taking a break, and instead I'm making a list each week of all misspelled words (that she should know) through the week.  We sit together at the start of the following week and go through each one, reviewing the applicable rules.  She then practices those words daily in different ways (ideas here) and does a test on Friday.  I'm noticing a few things:

1) she's being more careful in her work, since she sees that it results in a shorter list for the following week

2) I notice her more frequently going back to a word and saying "hm, that's not right," followed by "ohhh, now I remember" as she recalls the rule

3) she's scoring well on the tests and in the 4 weeks that she's done it, has only had 2 words be on the list for more than one week (she's had between 6-20 words each week).

 

Right now we're both enthusiastic about it.  I think that we'll likely continue this activity even after we start on book 6, whenever we feel ready to do that.

 

Good luck!

[Farrar]

I have a 9 yo who started AAS on the late side.  He is also a terrible speller  I have seen a great improvement in his spelling.  However, I think expectations of what improvement should look like have to be managed.  Ds does not spell many things correctly in his own writing that he does in freewrites or for written narrations or other schoolwork despite having learned them in AAS.  There is a huge lag time between spelling it properly in AAS, when he's focused on that specific rule or reviewing spelling specifically with the dictations and when he's focused on whatever other school thing or pleasure writing thing he's focused on when he writes in other contexts.  I see his spelling in those other contexts slowly, unevenly improving since we started AAS.  However, it's not a magic wand and I have the expectation that he'll continue to need practice for a long time, in a lot of contexts before he really masters the material across the board.  Learning the rule, getting it when you're not thinking about anything else during spelling time is just the first step.

 

That said, I'm sure it doesn't work for every kid.  And I've heard that some kids who really didn't click with AAS did click with Apples and Pears, as mentioned above.

[Flowergirl159]

Just a thought, are you using the review cards each day at the beginning of a lesson? If you are using a chunk of cards each day, that will really, really help with memorising each rule.

 

It does take time though, not just "well we learnt this last week, so we should know it"

. I also talk with DD9 during other writing times and question her whether or not it should have k or ck, for example. She remembers more rules than I do :) I remember that there is a rule regarding xyz, but dont remember what it is. So when I see her incorrectly spelling a word, I will ask what we learnt regarding this. Then she will often be able to tell me as we talk about it and fix her mistake. So for us, spelling rules dont just stay in our AAS lessons. I try to include them in most of our lessons that require spelling, when needed. Hope this helps :)

[Annie Laurie]

Do you do the dictation sentences?

 

As my kid writes those words I often ask questions like, "why is that a ck?" "Is that one L or two?" and so on. I expect him to answer by repeating the rule to me. This gets him to think through how to spell as he is writing.

 

I don't understand your comment about "random rules." They are spelling rules. They are what they are. You either accept them or you don't. If you don't believe in spelling rules, then neither will your kid. I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm just saying that because if that's your approach then no spelling curriculum will work.

 

Yes, always. I do the same thing with the rules and asking him questions for the dictation. Because we're doing a spelling lesson, I remember to do that. It's real-life application that I'm struggling with.

 

I didn't articulate that well. It's not that I don't believe in spelling rules, it's that I'm trying to figure out how applying those rules work when going about life. Did any of you learn to spell with rules as kids, if so, do you still think about those rules as an adult when you get stuck on the spelling of a word? As I said, my brain just doesn't work that way. But, I just had a lightbulb moment while typing this out. As you use those rules more and more, the spelling becomes internalized, right?  When going about our other school assignments, or even when he's just writing a little note or something along those lines, when he asks me how to spell something, I need to think about what rules apply, and then walk him through the rules with questions that will lead him to remembering the rule and applying it himself. Eventually, he'll need to ask me less and less, as he has more years of practice reading and writing and internalizes much of it. I had to think about math, and that made rules based spelling click a little for me now.

 

That probably seems obvious to you all, but I'm slow about some things, I guess!

 

I loved Apples and Pears spelling as it really carried over into other work and very few rules to memorize.

 

This probably would be a better fit for us. I want to try to make AAS work if I can though, since I already have 3 levels and all of the stuff it comes with, and we've spent a lot of time on it.

 

We find the same thing, and I decided that for us it was probably less due to the curriculum and more due to my daughter's learning.  I also think we were moving too quickly through the book, and so it wasn't fully sinking in.  Right now we're taking a break, and instead I'm making a list each week of all misspelled words (that she should know) through the week.  We sit together at the start of the following week and go through each one, reviewing the applicable rules.  She then practices those words daily in different ways (ideas here) and does a test on Friday.  I'm noticing a few things:

1) she's being more careful in her work, since she sees that it results in a shorter list for the following week

2) I notice her more frequently going back to a word and saying "hm, that's not right," followed by "ohhh, now I remember" as she recalls the rule

3) she's scoring well on the tests and in the 4 weeks that she's done it, has only had 2 words be on the list for more than one week (she's had between 6-20 words each week).

 

Right now we're both enthusiastic about it.  I think that we'll likely continue this activity even after we start on book 6, whenever we feel ready to do that.

 

Good luck!

 

That's encouraging, thank you!

 

I have a 9 yo who started AAS on the late side.  He is also a terrible speller  I have seen a great improvement in his spelling.  However, I think expectations of what improvement should look like have to be managed.  Ds does not spell many things correctly in his own writing that he does in freewrites or for written narrations or other schoolwork despite having learned them in AAS.  There is a huge lag time between spelling it properly in AAS, when he's focused on that specific rule or reviewing spelling specifically with the dictations and when he's focused on whatever other school thing or pleasure writing thing he's focused on when he writes in other contexts.  I see his spelling in those other contexts slowly, unevenly improving since we started AAS.  However, it's not a magic wand and I have the expectation that he'll continue to need practice for a long time, in a lot of contexts before he really masters the material across the board.  Learning the rule, getting it when you're not thinking about anything else during spelling time is just the first step.

 

That said, I'm sure it doesn't work for every kid.  And I've heard that some kids who really didn't click with AAS did click with Apples and Pears, as mentioned above.

 

Thank you, your post is what I was getting at. The bolded makes sense.

 

Just a thought, are you using the review cards each day at the beginning of a lesson? If you are using a chunk of cards each day, that will really, really help with memorising each rule.

 

It does take time though, not just "well we learnt this last week, so we should know it"

. I also talk with DD9 during other writing times and question her whether or not it should have k or ck, for example. She remembers more rules than I do :) I remember that there is a rule regarding xyz, but dont remember what it is. So when I see her incorrectly spelling a word, I will ask what we learnt regarding this. Then she will often be able to tell me as we talk about it and fix her mistake. So for us, spelling rules dont just stay in our AAS lessons. I try to include them in most of our lessons that require spelling, when needed. Hope this helps :)

 

Yes, we use the review cards every single day and he has no problem memorizing them.

 

That does help, thanks!

[MrsH]

YES to your lightbulb moment! I think that's exactly right. At least I hope it is, since it's what we're doing :-D

[MerryAtHope]

I did see a lot of improvement with both of my kids, but moreso after level 3. After only level 2, there were still so many words that they didn't know how to spell, that spelling was still too much to think through when they wrote. After 3, they have about 1000 words mastered, and it seemed to "tip the scales" so to speak for my kids. (I had kids who used to spell 75% of words or more in any given sentence incorrectly. After level 3, it tended to be 50% or less, and sometimes a note with no errors--and then as they progressed in the levels, they had fewer and fewer errors).

 

If you have to think about rules and patterns for almost every word--well, that WOULD be hard. When it becomes second nature for most words, and there's only an occasional bug-aboo, then it's easier to think about that rule. There's a rule from level 6 that I often think of that helps me remember a couple of words I tend to get confused. But 95% of the time or more, I'm not thinking about rules--so it's not really hard to need to access that one every once in awhile.

 

Also, rules are something that you might think of more during the editing process, rather than the writing process when the focus is getting ideas on paper, creativity, information, organization, and so on. Save the mechanics for the revision process.

 

Here's an article on helping kids to become more automatic in their spelling that you may find helpful. This is a gradual goal over a few years though, not something you'll necessarily see tomorrow. HTH some! Merry :-)

[Annie Laurie]

I did see a lot of improvement with both of my kids, but moreso after level 3. After only level 2, there were still so many words that they didn't know how to spell, that spelling was still too much to think through when they wrote. After 3, they have about 1000 words mastered, and it seemed to "tip the scales" so to speak for my kids. (I had kids who used to spell 75% of words or more in any given sentence incorrectly. After level 3, it tended to be 50% or less, and sometimes a note with no errors--and then as they progressed in the levels, they had fewer and fewer errors).

 

If you have to think about rules and patterns for almost every word--well, that WOULD be hard. When it becomes second nature for most words, and there's only an occasional bug-aboo, then it's easier to think about that rule. There's a rule from level 6 that I often think of that helps me remember a couple of words I tend to get confused. But 95% of the time or more, I'm not thinking about rules--so it's not really hard to need to access that one every once in awhile.

 

Also, rules are something that you might think of more during the editing process, rather than the writing process when the focus is getting ideas on paper, creativity, information, organization, and so on. Save the mechanics for the revision process.

 

Here's an article on helping kids to become more automatic in their spelling that you may find helpful. This is a gradual goal over a few years though, not something you'll necessarily see tomorrow. HTH some! Merry :-)

 

Thank you, Merry, that helps a lot! That's exactly what I meant- it seemed overwhelming to keep track of so many rules, but now I can see how it will eventually just be a tool for the occassional word he can't remember how to spell.

[MerryAtHope]

Thank you, Merry, that helps a lot! That's exactly what I meant- it seemed overwhelming to keep track of so many rules, but now I can see how it will eventually just be a tool for the occassional word he can't remember how to spell.

 

In our case, I found it helpful to keep these fresh in the mind. Both of my kids needed lots of review, so I did a mastered review of one type of card per week, each month. So, week 1 I went over all the mastered phonograms. Week 2, Sound Cards. Week 3, Key Cards. Week 4, selections from the word cards. I only reviewed a couple of minutes each day--they could rattle through them pretty quickly after awhile. 

 

I often found which ones they truly new easily and automatically, and which ones they had to stop and think about or seemed to guess etc...

 

You don't want to move a card to the mastered section until they can answer quickly and easily. That's really necessary for being ready to move closer to automaticity. So...sometimes extra review is needed to get there.

 

Also, if it's hard to remember the rules, sometimes that's a sign they need to go through the lessons a bit more slowly--spread it out over more days so the mind has more time to really absorb and retain it. This article on the Funnel Concept really helped me to see that, and also helped me in thinking through how to approach other subjects with my kids. 

 

HTH! Merry :-)

[RootAnn]

There are so many things you have to remember when you are writing something - you have to remember what words you need to write, how to form the letters, how to spell the words, capitalization, punctuation, and sometimes grammar fundamentals. It is hard to have all those down to automaticy. I found my oldest spelled better in her free writing as she got older & more things came automatically (capitalization, punctuation, forming letters). She had more brain power to remember the words & how to spell them.