Texas may lead the way

[Teachin'Mine]

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2022756898_texasalgebraxml.html?syndication=rss

 

I don't get it.  There's already a provision for students to get a more basic diploma which doesn't include algebra II, so why did they have to drop it from the regular high school requirements.  So much talk about needing to promote STEM, and then they do this?  Sounds to me that companies are having a hard time filling lower level jobs as so many students are going onto college and then overqualified.  This may not be the case, but it's what came to mind when reading the article.

 

The reason they give for dropping the algebra II requirement, about graduation rates declining, is just not so.  Sad IMO.

[chiguirre]

The current requirement for a minimum high school diploma was Algebra 2 (according to TEA's website). With this change, Geezle has a much better shot at getting a high school diploma, so I'm very happy with the change. I don't think this will impact the "distinguished diploma" that a good student like Trinqueta would shot for. Those requirements are college prep and pretty rigorous. Just like CA's A-G requirements, TX has its own quirky rules for high school that wouldn't apply in other states

[Teachin'Mine]

But according to the article linked above, Geezle would have been able to get a diploma under the "old" regulations as well.

 

"The state had allowed students to avoid taking algebra II under the stricter rules by earning a “minimum diploma,†and about 20 percent of students did so. But lawmakers said it wasn’t enough."

 

Would Geezle have been able to get the "minimum diploma"?  

[Robin in DFW]

This may very well have to do with pressure coming from some of the political groups that are wanting things to be 'more fair'. 

 

I don't know where the other posters reside, but as a Texas resident, I have seen our schools being plagued with issues due to so many immigrants flooding the system.  I'm guessing that in order for an acceptable rate of graduation for many of these students, a lower set of standards is being implemented.

 

I'm hoping this doesn't lower the standard for others.  I'm hoping good sense will prevail and this won't become common-place for the general population.

[Teachin'Mine]

Actually, the way I see it, it's the students in the schools with large immigrant populations who have the most to lose with this new regulation.  With algebra II no longer required, it's not the wealthy districts which will be more likely to  drop it, it's the poorest districts. Wouldn't math be a subject which requires the least English language proficiency? 

 

I go back to the article and the way it stated that it's the local employers - oil, chemical, auto - which are complaining that not enough of the high school students are pursuing vocational training.  One would think that if more are on a college prep course, that more would be inclined to follow through with 4-year rather than technical school.  I think they're just looking to fill the "good paying" jobs which don't require college, and right now too many are going to college.  As I said, I may be wrong.  And I think pursuing an AS or other technical training is a great way for students to end up with good paying jobs.   I also don't see why it's wrong to require the majority of the students (the 80% who aren't going with the "minimum diploma") to take algebra II.  

[Robin in DFW]

Of course, this math de-requirement may just be the tip of the iceberg...there may be further lowering of requirements as time goes by...

[Teachin'Mine]

You know, I think I've argued both sides of requiring algebra II.   What bothered me in this article is that this seems to be in response to the request of corporations.

 

I guess time will tell whether other standards will be lowered.

[8filltheheart]

This article is being discussed on the general forum, too, in case you missed it.  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/502369-texas-considers-dropping-algebra-ii-mandate/

 

I find it a very disturbing trend.   What is the purpose of education?   Is it to meet employer demands?  Is it about being college bound?   Is it about having a populace that is civilized according certain expectations?   Is it about helping individuals reach their highest potential?  Is it about educating the mind to be free to form its own independent judgments?

 

It just seems to me that all of the educational reforms in this country are undirected or only directed toward employment or educated to the lowest standard and therefore not really mentally free.

[MamaSprout]

In our state, the Alg 2 graduation requirement came on pretty fast, and some of the students just won't make it. I think there is an opt out process, but I'm not sure what hoops there are to jump through.

[chiguirre]

But according to the article linked above, Geezle would have been able to get a diploma under the "old" regulations as well.

 

"The state had allowed students to avoid taking algebra II under the stricter rules by earning a “minimum diploma,†and about 20 percent of students did so. But lawmakers said it wasn’t enough."

 

Would Geezle have been able to get the "minimum diploma"?

 

No, he couldn't. Here's a link to the TEA's minimum diploma requirements, which included Algebra 2 (and passing the EOC exam).

 

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/rules/tac/chapter074/ch074g.html

[8filltheheart]

 

No, he couldn't. Here's a link to the TEA's minimum diploma requirements, which included Algebra 2 (and passing the EOC exam).

 

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/rules/tac/chapter074/ch074g.html

 

Is there a difference between minimum diploma and minimum high school program? (I can't really tell w/o doing more than skimming.  ;)  )

 

If the minimum high school program is what is being referred to as not requiring alg 2, couldn't he take one of the following?   

 

(2)  Mathematics--three credits. Two of the credits must consist of Algebra I and Geometry.

(A)  The final credit may be Algebra II. A student may not combine a half credit of Algebra II with a half credit from another mathematics course to satisfy the final mathematics credit requirement.

(B)  The final credit may be selected from one full credit or a combination of two half credits from the following courses:

(several of them were higher level courses, but there were a few that seemed at a lower level)

[5sons]

Very interesting. I thought it might come to this. 4 years ago I had a long conversation with at friend of mine who teaches math in Arlington, Tx. She taught in Georgia previously and was supper frustrated with the Texas school system for requiring algebra II. She said that most of her students (some ESL) struggled with math so much that they were lucky to pass Algebra I. She was one of the teachers who was charged with getting these students passing algebra II. She said this task had become impossible and she was working hard to get rid of Algebra II.

 

"But don't you think it's better for these students to learn to step up their work ethic and brain power by completing Algebra II especially if they don't plan on going to college as this will be the highest math they get their whole lives?" Nope she said. They will never use most of the math they learned (or didn't learn) in school so why make them. Why spend the money in this area, save it for other school activities.

 

Of course, this math de-requirement may just be the tip of the iceberg...there may be further lowering of requirements as time goes by...

This is my thought too.

 

What about those that would benefit? Better yet require it and if you don't pass you don't graduate? Are we not ultimately responsible for our actions? (No rotten tomatos)

 

Seems like bringing up employers who need certain types of workers is just to distract the reader from the real issue.

 

K

[Bambam]

I'd like to point out that in Texas homeschools are private schools and thus not subject to the Texas Board of Education's graduation requirements. However, we do need to look at any college's admission requirements to figure out what we *need* to do if appropriate.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Very interesting. I thought it might come to this. 4 years ago I had a long conversation with at friend of mine who teaches math in Arlington, Tx. She taught in Georgia previously and was supper frustrated with the Texas school system for requiring algebra II. She said that most of her students (some ESL) struggled with math so much that they were lucky to pass Algebra I. She was one of the teachers who was charged with getting these students passing algebra II. She said this task had become impossible and she was working hard to get rid of Algebra II.

 

"But don't you think it's better for these students to learn to step up their work ethic and brain power by completing Algebra II especially if they don't plan on going to college as this will be the highest math they get their whole lives?" Nope she said. They will never use most of the math they learned (or didn't learn) in school so why make them. Why spend the money in this area, save it for other school activities.

 

 

This is my thought too.

 

What about those that would benefit? Better yet require it and if you don't pass you don't graduate? Are we not ultimately responsible for our actions? (No rotten tomatos)

 

Seems like bringing up employers who need certain types of workers is just to distract the reader from the real issue.

 

K

No rotten tomatoes, but perhaps a bit different perspective.  I honestly don't know what all the ramifications will be if the Algebra II requirement is removed.  I have concerns, too, and worry about how many kids will be negatively affected.  

 

But I also have concerns that are sort of on the flip side of that coin...

 

1.  I feel that there are a tremendous number of kids not getting a solid enough base in Elementary and Middle School math to really even truly understand Algebra I.  If they don't have that basis, then telling them to suck it up and buckle down and learn Algebra II seems an ineffective response.  Most kids and most teachers won't be able to re-teach years and years of math in a single school year.  If they are being denied the ability to go on to get a high school diploma because they cannot pass Algebra II, that creates a whole other set of issues.  If we are going to make this a requirement, then elementary and middle school math teachers need a whole lot more training in math and in how to teach math.  Also, when kids begin to struggle, in any subject, they need additional qualified and supportive instruction early, BEFORE they start to truly fall behind.

 

2.  For those students who will never be able to function well in Algebra II, because of some sort of learning difference, or because this is an extremely weak area for them, despite tremendous effort, it is disheartening to see that so many assume the child is then incapable of (or has not earned the right to) going on to college.  Requiring this for graduation may be preventing a great many very bright people from achieving higher goals.

 

3.  Going on to college does not guarantee a great career.  I have several family members with college degrees who are suffering financially and are having trouble finding a job.   Fighting for all those great high school credits to get into a very expensive, highly acclaimed school, and working hard to achieve all those great college credits so they could graduate with that prestigious diploma didn't really prepare them for how to function in life or how to adapt when your chosen field isn't working out the way you planned.

 

4.  it is also disheartening to see very bright, gifted people who do not go on to college being treated as if they are less intelligent or inferior or lazy.  I have many friends who did not go or did not complete college that did very well in their chose field.  My own DH did not complete college, but has a terrific career in engineering and has been successful and highly respected his entire adult life.  The degree was unnecessary for his particular situation.  Why?  Because there was a program at his high school for engineering, practical application engineering.  He learned so much more at the high school level than he ever learned in college and was employed continually afterwards.  He was judged on his actual abilities and conceptual understanding, not by what was on a piece of paper with words on it.  Does that mean every child can follow this path?  No.  But maybe more actual training and a little less focus on text books might help.

 

5.  Not every child will be able to understand Algebra II, and this does not mean that they are lazy or don't care or are incapable of doing great things in life.  Some really amazing people throughout our history on this planet were not good at math.  Even average and below average kids may have a lot to offer the world if doors are not shut inadvertently.

 

I speak of these things because I know from personal experience that doors were nearly shut for me and that would have truly been a shame.  My college years were great ones and I loved my career.  But I almost didn't get that opportunity.  I took Algebra II and Trig my senior year.  I nearly failed.  I was a good student.  I had made mostly A's with a few B's my entire school career.  But I did not understand Algebra II.  The only reason I passed the class was because my teacher recognized my extreme effort and realized through no fault of my own I would not pass and therefore not graduate without help.  The teacher paired me with another student who sat right next to me and guided me through.  I learned nothing.  I spent hours and hours every week trying to get through that class.  It was an incredible waste of time and effort.  But I did pass the tests.   All I got from all that effort was a pretty mark on my transcript.  It didn't help my understanding of math, it was not needed in any way for me get through my college level classes with great success or get me into a better job after graduating from college.  What I really needed when I got out of school was a solid basis in consumer math.  What I got was a check mark next to Algebra II on my transcript, a fairly useless mark, IMHO, since it didn't mean I actually learned anything at all.

 

My DD tries very hard, and is bright.  She does incredibly well in certain subjects and is great at outside the box thinking.  She amazes me every day.  But math may never be a strong subject for her.  It is not for lack of trying.  She may never even get to Algebra II.  And yet i think she could do really well in college and has a lot to offer the world.  The idea that she might not even qualify for a high school diploma just because of that one course seems ridiculous to me.  

 

We are not manufactured in a factory.  Each one of us is different, with different strengths and weaknesses, different areas of brilliance and areas we struggle.  I think our educational system needs to be revamped to recognize and support that, not try to force everyone into the same cookie cutter mold.

 

Bottom line, I don't know what the answer is.  I do know that a one size fits all mentality is not the most effective way to move our society forward.  We have no idea what the future holds and jobs and technology are changing every day.  Our adaptability, I think, is more important than any one class requirement.  

[5sons]

OneStepAtATime,

 

Thank you for your perspective. I agree that getting behind in math early (as with reading) is difficult to catch up from. This is just one issue that plages PS. And I understand that not everyone needs/ has ability/ desire to take these levels of math (just like not everyone will go to college). I think what I'm trying to say is what is our standard? It seems as though the standard for graduating highschool is being forced lower.

 

My grandfather only made it through 8th grade, but that worked for him at the time. The standard was higher than he had the time to obtain. So he just didn't graduate. He went on to own and run a very successful home building buisness.

 

All this to say, what are we reacting to when we read this article? I am thinking the standard should stay. This means that some students will not graduate. They are destine for other things.

 

Maybe I'm living in a world that is no more. What do you all think?

 

K

[OneStepAtATime]

OneStepAtATime,

 

Thank you for your perspective. I agree that getting behind in math early (as with reading) is difficult to catch up from. This is just one issue that plages PS. And I understand that not everyone needs/ has ability/ desire to take these levels of math (just like not everyone will go to college). I think what I'm trying to say is what is our standard? It seems as though the standard for graduating highschool is being forced lower.

 

My grandfather only made it through 8th grade, but that worked for him at the time. The standard was higher than he had the time to obtain. So he just didn't graduate. He went on to own and run a very successful home building buisness.

 

All this to say, what are we reacting to when we read this article? I am thinking the standard should stay. This means that some students will not graduate. They are destine for other things.

 

Maybe I'm living in a world that is no more. What do you all think?

 

K

I really don't know the answer.  I am honestly torn.  I don't want our standards reduced, but I also really disagree with the mindset that one size fits all and students have no business getting their high school diploma or going on to college (should they desire that path) , because they cannot do well in one lousy class.   I know so many people who are truly brilliant that have an area of weakness which might make it difficult to fulfill all the current requirements for high school graduation, yet they went on and did great in college and are successful, productive members of society.  That door was not arbitrarily shut for them because of one area of weakness.

 

I very nearly didn't pass Algebra II.  I was lousy at this level of math. If I hadn't passed, in today's day and age, I would not have graduated from high school and would not have gone on to a respected University, would not have had the wonderful experiences and educational opportunities I had while earning my college degree, and would probably not have gone into a very successful career in the field that I chose after earning that degree.  Just because I couldn't pass one math class.  How would that have benefited me or society?

 

And forcing kids to quit high school (as was posted with this topic on the General Education board) in 11th grade, even if they want to continue, because the school does not believe they will pass Algebra II should be criminal.  

 

Again, I don't know the answer.  I do not want to make standards incredibly lax.  But I hope someone else has a better plan than flunking tons of intelligent, capable kids over one math class, a math class they couldn't pass either because our education system failed to adequately prepare them or because they have a learning issue in one specific area and our educational system did not know how to deal with that learning issue.