Need help choosing reading program 14 y/o dyslexic

[keyne123]

You may have read my other post asking for feedback on Barton vs Reading Horizons.  I'm trying to decide on a O-G based reading program for my just diagnosed 14 y/o dyslexic son reading at a 3rd grade level.  My head is spinning!  

 

Barton, Reading Horizons, Wilson, All about Spelling (this is a full reading program??) - which one?????  I'm ready to do eenie-meenie-minie-moe :0)  

 

Are they all so different??  Do I go by price??  

 

Which one is the best for our situation??

 

Please help, thanks so much!

[OneStepAtATime]

1.  Yes, I just read your other post.  Big hugs.I know you are frustrated and feeling confused.  I sympathize.  BTDT.  We waited until 5th grade with our oldest before having a private assessment.   And we hired a private tutor that was supposedly trained in OG systems and dyslexia that ended up being truly awful, but we didn't start tutoring at home with a true OG system for another year.  Huge mistakes at every turn....but even though we started really late, we are finding a better path now.  So can you.

 

2.  There are a lot of people who post on this board that have used many different OG based systems and other options to help their dyslexic children, so you will probably get several recommendations.  Parents here really care and have worked hard to find what works for their children and their knowledge has been truly invaluable to me.  Hopefully, many will weigh in.  So that it doesn't get confusing for you and the potential future posters, you might want to direct anyone reading your other post to post on this one, since it is the latest one.  Just edit your original post to ask people to answer here, so you get responses in one spot.

 

3.  For ANY OG system to work, you are going to have to commit to the fact that you will need to work with your child intensely, every day, with a systematic program, probably fairly dry and boring at times (as you mentioned feeling in your other post).  And you need to commit to the fact that this will take time.  This is just a given if you want to succeed with your child.  Without that commitment the chances of success greatly diminish.

 

4.  All of the systems you have mentioned have SOME similarities, but really they are pretty different.  I don't know which one will work best for your child, but I know that some are easier for a parent to implement at home than others.

 

5.  I know very little about Reading Horizons.  You had mentioned in your other post looking at a strictly on-line version.  I would not recommend only doing an on-line program for a 14 year old with unremediated dyslexia.  They need one on one tutoring, especially since, at 14 they have almost certainly developed some terrible coping mechanisms that will have to be unlearned.  That takes time and patience.  

 

All About Spelling and All About Reading are frequently used combined for a full reading and spelling program and some have used this system successfully with mildly dyslexic children.  I have heard, though, that for many it just does not go far enough back to the basic building blocks of reading, nor does it take it in small enough steps, for successful remediation with a child who is dyslexic.  

 

Wilson is supposed to be a good system, but I have not heard of a parent without professional training being able to implement it.

 

 Linda-Mood Bell also has a system, and it is a bit easier to implement in a home setting than Wilson, as I understand it, and my mother was able to successfully tutor my son with her LiPS program before we moved him to Barton.

 

Barton is probably the easiest of the truly intense OG programs to implement at home.  The tutor DVDs and TM provide clear guidance and there is a ton of support on-line.  This program goes back to the very basics of reading and sort of starts a child from scratch, which can seem really basic and silly, but at least for many dyslexics is absolutely necessary.  Some programs just don't go far enough back for certain children.  There are also other companies that now provide great games and other support mechanisms that make implementing this program more interesting.  It is incredibly expensive, but much cheaper than a full blown dyslexia tutor.  Susan Barton herself has provided many people on this board with a lot of support when they needed it.

 

5.  Others will weigh in with other options that worked for them.  I will tell you what worked for us, but if you wish more detail, read previous posts or PM me, since I think most on here are getting tired of my Barton reviews.   :) And yes, Barton worked for us, so I am biased towards that program, but there are others that you might very well have success with.

 

6.   I have a 13 year old and a 9 year old.  We started Barton over a year ago, but took a huge break because I wasn't as committed as I should have been (kept second guessing whether we had made the right choice since it seemed so basic and slow at first) and when my 13 year old pushed back, I quit.  It was a mistake.  We then resumed 8 months ago, and took another break in the middle.  Another mistake but this one really couldn't be helped.  

 

Once we resumed Barton fully, and I committed to it wholeheartedly, things really took off.  She is now reading and spelling better than she ever has in her entire life and so is my son, though I suspect he has some unusual vision issues that are making it more difficult for him to succeed. I wholeheartedly believe in this program for our kids.  I intend to use it all the way to Level 10 because that will put our kids at high school level reading, spelling and grammar, and hopefully in better shape than even some of their NT peers.

 

 Is it right for yours?  I think it could be, if you are willing to commit to the work involved and are willing to tackle the work with enthusiasm, not seeing it as drudgery.  If you rush through it with a "just get it done" attitude or come at it with no enthusiasm, it probably will not be a very successful experience for you or your child.  Is it the only program you could use successfully?  No, probably not.  Keep reading past posts.  There is a wealth of info there.

 

7.  Has your child ever had a vision screening with a Developmental Optometrist?  There are certain vision issues that do not show up on normal vision screenings that can make reading exceedingly difficult, but do not appear necessarily as vision issues.  If those exist and are not addressed, then trying to work through an OG system may be very challenging. We are in the process of trying to get those possible vision issues assessed through a Developmental Optometrist for our DS since most regular eye doctors simply are not trained to look for these particular issues.

 

8.  I recommend before you start buying programs that you get on the Barton Reading and Spelling site and administer her free tutor screening to yourself, if you haven't already, and her free student screening to your child to see if:

a.  You can successfully tutor someone in an OG based system (doesn't have to be Barton) and

b.  Your child can successfully BE tutored in an OG based system.  My daughter passed the test without issue.  My son did not and had to have remediation with Linda-mood Bell's LiPS program before we could start him with Barton.

 

I hope some of that helped.  You are not alone.  Big hugs and best wishes.

 

[Julie of KY]

I use Barton so I am really only familiar with that one. It has worked well for us. I would encourage you that if you use Barton to consider contacting Susan Barton herself with any questions or concerns - she does an amazing job of giving personal answers. Also if you choose Barton, pay attention to the screening for both the teacher and student which is available online. If you as a teacher can't hear the sounds, then you can't teach them either.

 

If you choose Barton (and probably other programs) concentrate on the program and don't worry about outside reading. Barton recommends no outside reading until through level 3-4. Get lots of books on tape. Consider Learning Ally if that is appropriate for you son. Do lots of reading aloud.

 

I will second a screening by a developmental optometrist. Even if you have no concerns, things may be noticed by the doc that have dramatic impacts on reading.

 

Good luck picking the right program for your family.

[keyne123]

Thank you SO much for your thoughtful reply!  I absolutley love that there are places like this online that we can find support and help from others.  And it is wonderful to know that there are strangers who certainly do not have to, but will stop their own lives and give of their own time to help a fellow human being in need.  Love it.  :o)  Wish I had done this years ago and I could be that person saying "my son is 14, this is what we did when he was 8, it really turned things around for him..."  Please let that be a warning to ohers out there who feel things are not working right with their child and have not had them tested.  Not going to beat myself up anymore, time to move forward.  But I will totally take that hug!  :o)

 

I AM ready to commit to whatever it takes.  When I was exposed to Barton years ago, I think I was digging in my heels thinking "is all this really necessary?"  I was sort of in denial or maybe just in hope that things would naturally turn around.  It takes me sooo long to see patterns of behavior and recognize that pattern as not the norm.  If it's going to take long, boring, tedious hours doing whatever, I'll do it; but if the same results can be gained from something easier on me, more "fun" for him, with the same results, I'd rather do that.  Incidentally, I will definitely approach this with enthusiasm - even if it means total acting on my part, I'll put a smile on my face and do my best to make it the best for both of us.  No problem there.  I can get my mind in a happy place and make this experience a fascinating journey if it will mean a brighter future for him.  He's a very immature 14 y/o - the doctor said his maturity level is more of an 11 y/o - he will do whatever it is and not feel too self-conscious.  He just doesn't like babyish pictures on his curiculum, which doesn't look like will be a problem with Barton.

 

I am fully commited with this - I'm ready for action.  Bring it on.  I understand your point about not rushing through. Nope.  I will follow whatever to a tee.  I understand we are going to have to slow down and undo a lot of bad habits, make some new pathways in that noggin of his.  As far as I'm concerned, our focus is now this and our spiritual focus, anything else really doesn't matter. 

 

I joined a couple of yahoo groups and Barton has been recommended head and shoulders above any other program.  I am almost ready to go ahead and order, just very interested to hear more feedback from others. 

 

Incidentally, as far as the tutor goes.  The doctor recommended a few, including a free O-G tutoring program that the Scottish Rite Masons' fund.  He highly recommended them and from what I read online, the program is very good.  They are sending an application.  There is a waiting list, but the lady said they will see what they can do to get him in since he is older.  Free, what a blessing!  They also offer a free O-G training course in the summer, I may see if I can sign up for that.

 

I did mention to our eye doctor my concerns with my son's (his name is Cole) reading before his last exam, and he said his eyes look fine.  I have noticed, though, that Cole's eyes tear when he reads from a printed page.  I wonder if there is anything to that.  Maybe something to look into.  I'm sure the eye doctor is not specially trained.

 

The doctor also wants to do a speech and language evaluation.

 

He also thinks he would benefit from therapy.  He said Cole is often confused, may have issues with self-esteem, needs to stay connected with his strengths, would benefit from one on one social communication for his language expression.  I'm not a big one for this kind of thing, so I doubt we will go this route but I am going to think about it.

 

I haven't gotten the evaluation report yet, we have another appt (with Cole there too) on Friday.  Once I get that report I will have lots more questions for you guys, I'm sure!

 

Thanks again!! 

 

 

 

 

[Julie of KY]

I did mention to our eye doctor my concerns with my son's (his name is Cole) reading before his last exam, and he said his eyes look fine.  I have noticed, though, that Cole's eyes tear when he reads from a printed page.  I wonder if there is anything to that.  Maybe something to look into.  I'm sure the eye doctor is not specially trained.

My kids had been seen by numerous doctors including regular optometrist and ophthalmologist and no one picked up on any vision issues. They all have 20/20 vision. If your son's eyes tear when looking a printed pages, then I would definitely look into finding a COVD optometrist to evaluate him for possible problems.

 

My daughter's eyes were tearing from the stress of trying to turn in her eyes to focus on near objects. Individually the eyes could see near, but they weren't working together to focus on the same spot.

 

Vision issues often coincide with other issues like reading and sensory.

[Julie of KY]

If you end up going with Barton then you might find you like using the tiles on the app better than setting them up every time. I find that is saves us tons of time and we like it better. We get a lot more done in each session by doing it this way.

 

This only works with an ipad so if you don't have that then just use the tiles. Also, Susan Barton doesn't recommend buying the app until about level 4. (You have to buy each level you use separately). I definitely would not buy the app for levels 1 and 2. Level 3, the tiles are not too cumbersome, but I'm thinking of buying this level for my son when he gets there. My daughter loves the app at higher levels as it makes things more efficient to not have to move tiles between every word.

[OneStepAtATime]

I second what Julie said about the ap for the tiles.  Set up is much easier and the kids liked being able to leave up words to compare.

 

I realize I may have given you  a bad impression of Barton.  Let me clarify a few things:

 

First, I don't want you to come away with the impression that Barton is all drudgery and all boring and all tedious.  Once you get through the very necessary but pretty basic seeming Level 1 and Level 2, you and your child will be very used to the system and can probably move through each lesson pretty smoothly.

 

Level 1 you can probably do in a week or two.  If you can borrow it, you would probably be better off since you don't really need the tiles from level 1 for later levels.

 

Level 2 may take longer, but not much longer.  There are only 5 lessons, just like Level 1, but the lessons are longer, more meaty.  And the tiles from this level are used throughout the rest of the program so you need to buy this level, if possible.

 

Also, It worked much better doing Barton when I started keeping the lessons to only about 20 to 30 minutes, but doing it every weekday, not just twice a week like most tutors.  Retention was better and we all got used to the routine.  They actually have gotten where they frequently look forward to it.  My DD is an early riser so I work with her right after she eats breakfast.  DS gets up a bit later so he does his lesson right after HE eats breakfast, but later in the morning than DD.  Doing it first helps us to not get distracted or too tired.

 

Level 3 is quite a bit longer and takes more time.  We stuck with the 30 minutes a day routine, but did the lesson M-Th then played Barton based games on Friday and just did a couple of extra practice pages.  Spelling Success has some great card games for reinforcement that even my 13 year old likes playing as review.

 

You could probably get through the first three levels in a matter of just a few months.  Some can move through the first 3 levels very quickly.  Just don't rush.  The thing that some people don't like about Barton is that there are a lot of rules.  There is a misconception that you are rote memorizing rules and dyslexics usually do terrible at rote memorization.  The goal of the program is NOT to rote memorize those rules. but to learn them so well, and to be exposed to them in so many different ways, through writing, reading, etc. that the child internalizes the application of those rules.  Barton provides plenty of extra practice, and spelling tests, etc.  that really help solidify those rules.  I did not take advantage of all the extras available for free on-line or the games available for a bit of extra cost until halfway through Level 3.  Incorporating those has made lessons more fun and reinforcement more effective.

 

The other advantage I found with Barton was that it was pretty easy to see where we needed additional review, where we could just move forward, etc. and what we needed to provide for the additional review needed.  There are clearly laid out checklists and the lessons, once you get used to the system, are easy to implement.  You just need to be consistent and committed.

 

The kids and I were doing one of the Spelling Success card games from Level 3 yesterday for review and my DD realized that she was mis-remembering something from level 3.  It was minor but we immediately looked up the lesson, did an extra practice page, she wrote a few words showing that rule and it was all clarified for her in just 10 minutes.  We played the game again and we were all having fun.

 

My DD and I talked about your situation this morning and she wanted to pass on a message, if that is o.k.  She said to tell you and your son that things DO get better, if you can just find the right path.  She feels like a whole new world has opened up for her now that she can read more independently (she read Divergent in 5 days over Christmas and has started the second book in that series while also reading two other books with me - 8 months ago this would have been impossible).  It took 13 years to get here, but she wanted you and your son to know that it is worth the effort with whatever program you choose to go back to the very beginning and start over.  She wishes you both the best (as do I).

[keyne123]

Thank you!  Big hugs!

[OneStepAtATime]

You might also look at the High Noon books program as another option.  I have not used it personally, but others have.

 

Elizabeth B has an on-line program that might work.  I have not used that either.

 

I did not have this website to go to and had limited information when we started our journey.  I agree.  This place is invaluable.  To that end, I thought I would mention a couple of additional things with Barton that hung me up for a bit for even starting it:

 

1.  People starting this program frequently think you do this program in addition to your other language arts materials, and wonder when they will have the time.  It actually replaces all language arts for the first 3 or 4 levels, so that you can really focus on relearning the correct way to read and spell.  Therefore, when adding in time for remediation using this program, for many families it really makes a day shorter rather than longer.  

 

2.  Some are uncomfortable with the insistence that there is no outside reading at first. It seems intuitive that for a child to get better at reading they must be made to keep reading.  Books on CD, read alouds, etc. will help your child continue to be exposed to vocabulary and concepts, but Barton states that there should be no independent reading outside of Barton until at least through Level 4 (except for recommended leveled readers) so that bad habits won't form for younger kids and bad habits already formed can be unlearned for older kids.  Forcing children to read out loud except for in the Barton program is also a huge no no.  

 

This is not as rigid as it seems.  DD received Divergent for Christmas and started reading within minutes of opening the gift.  I did not tell her she couldn't read it because she hadn't finished Level 4 of Barton.  It is recommended that a student not read anything but what is assigned in Barton through Level 4 unless they CHOOSE to read for fun and are not forced to read out loud (causes reinforcement of bad habits).  If your child is picking up something to read for fun and is reading it silently, don't discourage the action.  Just don't assign any reading, and don't make them read out loud.  You can incorporate things like that later, when they are further through the program.

[keyne123]

OK, just did the student screening on the Barton website... he did not pass it, among almost tears of frustration trying to decipher the different sounds.  He also failed the syllables portion. So, now I take a step back and look at that Lips program?

[OneStepAtATime]

OK, just did the student screening on the Barton website... he did not pass it, among almost tears of frustration trying to decipher the different sounds.  He also failed the syllables portion. So, now I take a step back and look at that Lips program?

Yes. Has he had an evaluation with an audiologist?

 

If he is really struggling with several sections of the student screening, then LiPS may definitely be your best option for now, but a screening with an audiologist might help pinpoint any unusual hearing issues.  Just like unusual vision issues, there can be unusual hearing issues that do not show up on a normal hearing screening.

[OneStepAtATime]

And huge, huge hugs.  

 

I was so disappointed when DS didn't pass the student screening since he was the one that had always done so much better in school.  It just didn't make sense to me.  But LiPS was a tremendous help and it helped reinforce for me that his issues and strengths were very different from DD.  We had to approach remediation a bit differently.  Even with Barton, I have had to modify how I present certain things with one compared to the other, but we were able to adapt once I let go of preconceived notions.

[keyne123]

Hmmm no he hasn't had any examination with an audiologist.  Wouldn't this all stem from his learning issues?  We have another follow-up visit on Friday with the psychologist.  I met with him the other day for the first post-eval follow-up.  Friday's appt is with my son also.  I will ask him about that.

[keyne123]

Ok the LiPS program is $445????????   What are you kidding me???

 

I sent an email to Barton asking for advice.

[OneStepAtATime]

Ok the LiPS program is $445????????   What are you kidding me???

 

I sent an email to Barton asking for advice.

I know that seems like a huge amount and it is.  However, if you actually went through their program at a certified facility or with a certified tutor, you are looking at thousands, so comparatively, it really isn't so bad for those of us who have had to go through this program.  I think another parent on here was actually being told to go through their summer program for around $22,000!!!

 

Hopefully, Susan Barton can make some suggestions...

 

You may be able to find a used system and you could probably resell yours for close to your original purchase price, maybe even here at the WTM.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

You can try my free online lessons and the things on my how to tutor page while trying to figure it all out. It will be helpful no matter what you use, I would watch the videos together, 10 hours total.

 

Lessons linked below in my signature.

 

How to tutor page:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

[Lecka]

My son did speech therapy instead of Lips.  Our insurance paid b/c his articulation was below the 10th percentile and more than 3 years behind. 

 

So if you might have insurance coverage for speech therapy, that might be cheaper? 

 

I am just mentioning it.  I think for most people Lips is cheaper than paying for a speech therapist to do it.  But if you had access to a speech therapist who would give out lots of homework -- maybe it could work out to being less? 

 

Ime -- we didn't have the "name" program, but the therapist was very good.  She knew what she was doing.  (He had 2 different ones, doing their practicums at a university speech clinic.)  But this was after he spent 2 years in public school speech and didn't make any progress, just fell farther behind.  So not every speech therapist does it, but some do. 

 

He was not hearing sounds distinctly, and it was a big contributor to his articulation being so delayed. 

 

The speech clinic he went to had a sliding scale based on income, for people without full insurance coverage.  It was as low as $20/hour I believe. 

 

Edit:  There is a book at our library -- Phonics A-Z by Wiley Blevins. 

 

He has a few pages about Lips and some ideas for working for kids -- he recommends that if these little things don't work, kids be referred to a speech therapist who can do Lips.  He uses the previous name for Lips, it is ADD auditory discrimination in depth.  I got some great ideas, about using a mirror.  And, you can put your hand on your jaw, and when you feel your hand move, you have said a vowel!  Very helpful to me. 

 

It is not worth buying this book though, it is only 3-4 pages that talk about it. 

 

Also -- people have talked about only buying the manual and making their own manipulatives.  I do not know how much that drops the price. 

 

[Lecka]

Separately -- I used All About Spelling with my son for a while.  This is before AAR came out. 

 

Our experience was ----- the tiles were amazing for him.  So good.  It started out very good, and was some of his first success. 

 

Then somewhere around Step 5, the number of phonemes (this is sounds -- sometimes two letters make one sound, so ch and sh are phonemes with two letters) went up, and he could not blend that many phonemes. 

 

He was able to move forward in learning letter sounds, and starting to learn more than one sound for a letter, and when to use which sound.  But he needed time and practice to blend higher numbers of phonemes. 

 

I liked the advice in AAS to start with a consonant blend at the end of a word, and get those, and then move to consonant blends at the beginning of a word.  That worked well.

 

But very quickly it went to blending 6 phonemes ----- and it was too quick for him, and it was not something where I was able to just adjust the program (I personally -- someone else probably could have). 

 

So -- that is how it went for us with AAS.  I really like it, and I used ideas from the 2 books I own, and I practiced with it, and I loved the tiles and they helped my son.  But he could not do the program as a reading program, it moved too quickly. 

 

I kept using the tiles and magnetic dry erase board for a long time, too, even with other programs. 

 

My son is one who had a lot of trouble with learning to blend and blending, and he needed time blending two and three-letter words, before moving onto words where, yes, the phonics are known, but it is just too much for him to sound out at one time without working up to that point. 

[keyne123]

Heard back from the Barton people - they recommend starting LiPS.  She said he has to be able to do that part 3 section, repeating CVC sounds and get 10 right before he is ready for their program.  I'm going to test him again.  He didn't have the best attitude getting tested on a Saturday afternoon, plus he was tired, plus Dad and big sister were in the next room and I think he was a little resentful that I was making him do it.  I'll test him again Monday morning.  :)  Then I'll take it from there.  

 

 

Thanks again for the help!

[OneStepAtATime]

Heard back from the Barton people - they recommend starting LiPS.  She said he has to be able to do that part 3 section, repeating CVC sounds and get 10 right before he is ready for their program.  I'm going to test him again.  He didn't have the best attitude getting tested on a Saturday afternoon, plus he was tired, plus Dad and big sister were in the next room and I think he was a little resentful that I was making him do it.  I'll test him again Monday morning.   :)  Then I'll take it from there.  

 

 

Thanks again for the help!

Definitely give him the test when no one is around and he is well rested and not distracted.  I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that before.  My kids had self-esteem issues from all the struggles so any time they felt that they were not getting something quickly, there was resentment and resistance based on insecurity and sometimes depression.  It made it challenging to administer the tests so I had to be very careful of the conditions.  Good luck on Monday.

[Lecka]

I hope he does better this time!!!

[Pen]

He is reading well and fluently at a 3rd grade level or having trouble in some way at that level? Comprehension? Decoding?

 

I ask because with my son (we used Highnoonbooks.com which worked for him, but my second choice would have been Barton), once he was fluent at 3rd grade level, I got him on to series type books and he went rapidly upward from there.

 

Or in other words, what specifically are you trying to remediate at this stage?

[Pen]

Also, why do you specifically want an O-G program rather than a program that fits with recent research on what makes a good reading program consistent with, for example, Sally Shaywitz's book Overcoming Dyslexia?

[Pen]

You may have read my other post asking for feedback on Barton vs Reading Horizons.  I'm trying to decide on a O-G based reading program for my just diagnosed 14 y/o dyslexic son reading at a 3rd grade level.  My head is spinning!  

 

Barton, Reading Horizons, Wilson, All about Spelling (this is a full reading program??) - which one?????  I'm ready to do eenie-meenie-minie-moe :0)  

 

Are they all so different??  Do I go by price??  

 

Which one is the best for our situation??

 

Please help, thanks so much!

 

Of the choices you just gave, I don't know anything about R.H., know no one who has been successful with Wilson, and do not think AAS is a full reading program, no.

 

Thus, of those my choice would be Barton--or perhaps more research into R.H. to understand more about it.

 

We actually used HighNoon because it was recommended by a reading specialist teacher as her favorite choice for a student like my son who needed something "high interest/low level" and that worked well. We also used a bit of Language! which was also recommended by the reading teacher. Both of these are also among programs I found in  Sally Shaywitz's Overcoming Dyslexia.  We were specifically dealing with decoding and fluency trouble, not comprehension issues.

[PeterPan]

 

Incidentally, as far as the tutor goes.  The doctor recommended a few, including a free O-G tutoring program that the Scottish Rite Masons' fund.  He highly recommended them and from what I read online, the program is very good.  They are sending an application.  There is a waiting list, but the lady said they will see what they can do to get him in since he is older.  Free, what a blessing!  They also offer a free O-G training course in the summer, I may see if I can sign up for that.

 

I did mention to our eye doctor my concerns with my son's (his name is Cole) reading before his last exam, and he said his eyes look fine.  I have noticed, though, that Cole's eyes tear when he reads from a printed page.  I wonder if there is anything to that.  Maybe something to look into.  I'm sure the eye doctor is not specially trained.

 

The doctor also wants to do a speech and language evaluation.

 

He also thinks he would benefit from therapy.  He said Cole is often confused, may have issues with self-esteem, needs to stay connected with his strengths, would benefit from one on one social communication for his language expression.  I'm not a big one for this kind of thing, so I doubt we will go this route but I am going to think about it.

 

I haven't gotten the evaluation report yet, we have another appt (with Cole there too) on Friday.  Once I get that report I will have lots more questions for you guys, I'm sure!

 

Thanks again!! 

 

Hey all,

 

Finally, after years of struggling and frustrations galore, had my 14 yr old son professionally evaluated for his struggles in reading and math.  The result - severe language-based learning disability, including dyslexia, reading at a 3rd grade level.  Yikes.  The recommendation - get him started with an O-G tutor right away (I'm on it), and get him started with an O-G reading program at home.  He emphatically encouraged me to give it all I've got to get him at a better reading level while I still have time.  He said not to worry so much about the math - he struggles but is "only" in 30th percentile in his calculating the basics.  Not to worry so much about history and science - focus on the reading...

 

That would be fabulous if he could get into the Scottish Rite program!  It might relieve your burden, as it sounds like you're about to get some more things dumped on you.  The psych mentioned getting a speech eval.  They'll look at stuff beyond articulation.  Right now our SLP has been doing some testing on ds for language processing and she wants to do auditory processing testing.  She has very detailed testing, sort of like the pretest for Barton only a lot more detailed and with norms for each age.  She said if there were any issues there, she'd refer off for the audiologist eval.  So there's a sense in which, at this point, you can do what the first practitioner says and let them refer you to the next and the next, kwim?

 

I'll just agree with the others that a regular optometrist doesn't catch the things a developmental optometrist looks for.  It's sort of a cover your butt thing, just good to eliminate as an issue.  His eyes tearing are a symptom that there might be something going on there, and it doesn't really exclude the rest.  Usually when it rains, it snows with this stuff.  You go to COVD to get it checked.  You might like to get his vision checked while you're waiting to get into the Scottish Rite program.  If he has any vision issues, working on them would put him in a better position to respond to the tutoring.  Might also make some of that vision-based stuff like the math facts go better.

 

Welcome to this section of the boards!  :)

[SandyKC]

Reading Horizons.. Read their research rhetoric CAREFULLY. Pay particular attention to PROOF that THEIR program is effective for students actually diagnosed with learning disabilities. A lot of their marketing materials talk about the effectiveness of the O-G METHOD, but not of their specific program's effectiveness with students who have a KNOWN learning disabilities.  They talk about how it's proven an Orton-Gillingham program is needed, how you need systematic instruction, and you DO. Read research reports CLOSELY and look specifically for effectiveness of their program with students who are diagnosed with dyslexia.  http://www.readinghorizons.com/research/packets/research-rh.pdf 

 

The Scottish Rite program would be GREAT if you can go for that for free, but as OneStepAtATime recommended.. and Barton recommended.. You may need to start with LiPS.  My DS had to have the LiPS program beforehand and for a child who does not understand the phonemes and doesn't get them.. whether due to speech-language issues, auditory processing issues, etc., sometimes LiPS is required to make the sound pieces CLEAR.  The LiPS training was essential for my DS.  You can go for FastForWord (FFW) as a program too, but since that requires a provider, you WILL pay more for that than for a LiPS kit.  If you do not feel like you can or want to do the LiPS yourself, check for speech-language pathologists who will work with the program... There again, you'll get into more money, like for FFW.

 

I wanted to mention two "practice" options too.  Given a child with severe problems, I have really started recommending to parents to have your child practice nightly for 20-30 minutes before bed in a skills program.  For a child with severe phonemic awareness issues, using the program Earobics before bed until completed.. I had my boys go through it twice.  Once a child is past the phonemic awareness basics, using Lexia Reading At Home or Reading Eggs each night before bed can help build those needed skills.

 

Why do I recommend this?

1) A child with severe dyslexia requires 300+ teaching repetitions for the phonemes to be automatically recalled in what is a state of learning mastery.

2) Whatever is on a person's mind at the time they fall asleep tends to be remembered better--athletes do visualization training before bed, and academically--doing the same with studying brings about better retention. Thus, having your child work with the program as part of a bedtime routine will help them learn the phonemes more effectively.  Using the programs can make it kind of fun too since they are all audio-visual and somewhat gamelike. ;-)

 

As far as Barton, Wilson, or AAR goes.. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.  Check Out other PROVEN programs for home use at http://learningabledkids.com/reading/proven_reading_programs.htm too.

 

 

[Pen]

Of the choices you just gave, I don't know anything about R.H., know no one who has been successful with Wilson, and do not think AAS is a full reading program, no.

 

Thus, of those my choice would be Barton--or perhaps more research into R.H. to understand more about it.

 

We actually used HighNoon because it was recommended by a reading specialist teacher as her favorite choice for a student like my son who needed something "high interest/low level" and that worked well. We also used a bit of Language! which was also recommended by the reading teacher. Both of these are also among programs I found in  Sally Shaywitz's Overcoming Dyslexia.  We were specifically dealing with decoding and fluency trouble, not comprehension issues.

 

btw, I think both Barton and RH are probably thought of as for home use. A possible advantage to them.

 

High Noon and Language! are used in schools (approved by state of California, which is where the teacher who recommended them to me was). But I found HN reasonably easy to utilize at home...the teacher book had lots of info, and there was someone at the company willing (like Susan Barton) to give personal help. Language! published by Sopris West was more difficult to manage at home (due to cost I did not have the teacher materials) but I got suggestions from the teacher who had recommended it. 

 

I should perhaps add that my ds had also had IEP at one point for significant speech issues, and that some of the way Barton worked did not seem like it would be a good fit, precisely because hearing some of the basic sounds was a problem. I went with HighNoon instead of trying to first remediate with something like LIPS because I knew he had already had years of Speech and had probably gotten as far in that regard as he would be able to get. (not probably the case with your ds if this is new for him) So I wanted a program where it did not rely so heavily on nonsense words and auditory approach. In fact even in HN I ended up dropping a part that had to do with hearing certain sounds and raising a finger if it sounded like ____ type exercises. Somehow, not sure how this happened, fast forward 2 and a half years, and my ds has decided he likes to study languages and is pretty good at dealing with sounds in 2 foreign languages he has decided to study, and can now hear the difference between say, trink and trinkt, in German, which I think is hard. 

[keyne123]

Wow, thanks so much for all the help and support - I need it!

 

I tested him again this morning. This time he completely failed the clapping syllables part (this kid! argh!), but got exactly 10 right on the sounds part, which is what Barton said he has to master.  Phew.  I'm going with it.  We will practice clapping words syllables around the house, in the car, etc. 

 

I ordered Barton last night.  I'm going to follow the advice of the doctors and go with O-G - why, someone asked?  Because from what they said, and research I have done, many recoomendations from parents, it is effective.  I feel like time is of the essence - he's 14 years old.  I want to get into it right away.

 

I am going to call the eye doctor we use and talk to him about the exam he gave him and if he has a developmental optometrist to recommend - I have a sneaking suspicion this won't be covered by insurance, right?.... 

 

I have another follow-up post-eval meeting Friday with the pshychologist with my son there too.  I will ask him about the speech/language eval and what the benefit of that would be - will that show whether it is an auditory processing issue?  He didn't mention that terminology in the meeting we already had.  But I assume, based on what I have read, that that is what a language-based LD would be...

 

Going to look in earobics too.  But I'm guessing $$$ and to tell you the truth we just don't have it.  What a racket this homeschool/teaching/specialty products is!!  Don't they realize that virtue of the fact we homeschool we are likely to be on one income??  The amount of money they charge for a couple of cd's and a book is CRAZY! 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Wow, thanks so much for all the help and support - I need it!

 

I tested him again this morning. This time he completely failed the clapping syllables part (this kid! argh!), but got exactly 10 right on the sounds part, which is what Barton said he has to master.  Phew.  I'm going with it.  We will practice clapping words syllables around the house, in the car, etc. 

 

I ordered Barton last night.  I'm going to follow the advice of the doctors and go with O-G - why, someone asked?  Because from what they said, and research I have done, many recoomendations from parents, it is effective.  I feel like time is of the essence - he's 14 years old.  I want to get into it right away.

 

I am going to call the eye doctor we use and talk to him about the exam he gave him and if he has a developmental optometrist to recommend - I have a sneaking suspicion this won't be covered by insurance, right?.... 

 

I have another follow-up post-eval meeting Friday with the pshychologist with my son there too.  I will ask him about the speech/language eval and what the benefit of that would be - will that show whether it is an auditory processing issue?  He didn't mention that terminology in the meeting we already had.  But I assume, based on what I have read, that that is what a language-based LD would be...

 

Going to look in earobics too.  But I'm guessing $$$ and to tell you the truth we just don't have it.  What a racket this homeschool/teaching/specialty products is!!  Don't they realize that virtue of the fact we homeschool we are likely to be on one income??  The amount of money they charge for a couple of cd's and a book is CRAZY! 

Word of caution with Barton if he has any struggles with sounds, just go slow and take the lessons in small segments or he may get really frustrated.

 

Actually, some here have been able to get a normal eye exam that also covers some developmental vision screening through a Developmental Optometrist and have it covered through insurance.  Just depends on how it is presented, how recently the other eye exam was and the insurance I guess.

 

And yes, this really is kind of a racket, but I tend to be more forgiving of Barton since she really does encourage reselling of her system to others, and is very supportive of those using her system and worked hard to create something that can be taught by a parent at home instead of having to come in for specialized training and certification like Wilson and Linda-mood Bell enforce or strongly encourage.  And I am sorry but $22,000 for a summer remediation program is OUTRAGEOUS!!! (which is what apparently it can cost for Linda-mood bell through their facility).

[OneStepAtATime]

By the way, one more thing with Barton, my DD did not have any issues with any of the student screening tests and is doing beautifully with Barton.  My DS DID have trouble with the final section and we remediated with LiPS, which really helped and he was finally able to pass the test.  He did great in the first two Levels (and caught up to his sister) but started to struggle a bit in Level 3.  He still made it through, but we are returning to LiPS because we have reached some difficult areas with Level 4 that are really tripping him up.  Also, his eye exam through a Developmental Optometrist showed he has one eye not tracking correctly.  He will begin VT in about a week and a half.  

 

In other words, if you were to start with Barton and your child is struggling, you may need to seek additional evals and/or remediate with LiPS or something like LiPS to really be successful with Barton or even another OG based system.  The program itself may not be the issue.