How much scribing do you do and for how long?

[SeaConquest]

My DS will be 5 in two weeks, and is about 3/4 through MM1. I currently scribe everything in MM for him, so as not to slow him down. We've almost finished HWT K and he also writes spelling words in AAS1 (we are about 1/2 way). How much scribing did you do for math for your accelerated learner at this age and what was your progression like? Thanks so much.

[Dmmetler]

Pre-Algebra, really, was when I started to insist that if DD really wanted to do it, she had to write it. Before then, she'd done short workbook-type stuff for SM, but longer stuff I'd scribed and she talked through what to do. She started pre-algebra at age 7.  That's one reason why we're doing P-A over 2 years. Last year, she did Key to Algebra, which was a workbook, but at a higher level, and Life of Fred, and learned techniques like having a scratch work column and a neat copy column. Fred's short problem sets were a good fit. This year, she's doing AOPS and writing everything at age 8-9 (with me usually working right beside her and us talking through many of the problems.

 

In other subjects, she mostly moved away from scribing when she learned to type fast enough that she could get her ideas down quickly. Even at age 9, she can write a couple of sentences beautifully, but her content suffers, but she's getting much better at being able to type her ideas and actually sound like herself in writing. I'm focusing handwriting and written work on learning to take notes on the fly in a clear, readable form so they can be used later, rather than writing final copies.

 

 

 

 

[SeaConquest]

Thank you. This was really helpful. I was thinking of starting Dance Mat Typing next year. Your post makes me think that's probably going to be a good plan. Thank you again.

[SierraNevada]

My DS just barely turned six..so at exactly a year older he is starting to do probably 80% of his own math writing. At five,it was mostly oral. But he'd write out a few problems a day,maybe. A year ago 80% would have been really hard as his numbers weren't that consistently readable. In the last six months we worked though one book of HWT (the green book) and with that and maturity, his handwriting is much better...especially numbers,so it has made it easier to give him the pencil. But I think if you do too much scribing, they will learn too much to depend on you to work through things for/with them. You will end up unconsciously helping, i.e.,automatically lining up decimals for them, etc. I think it is something you would try to wing them from, and if that means that you slow down acceleration for just a bit while your concentrate harder on writing, I think it will be worth it. Not that you have to hold their brains back far...it's a great time to make their oral/thinking on their feet strong. It's a great skill to be able to do mental math fast in your head. Unless there are dysgraphia concerns, I think its a great goal to get them writing math out themselves earlier. As for LA, typing is great, but still push them to write..because without that push on their weak link, they may never feel the urge to develop the skill.

[MinivanMom]

Maybe I'm mean, but once my kids have finished HWT K I really don't scribe for them anymore. I might do it for longer writing assignments, but definitely not for math. Yes, legibility could sometimes be an issue (particularly for ds8), but we have always tried to work through it. It gave ds some real motivation when he would get wrong answers, because he couldn't read his own writing. He would get so upset if it happened when working through a particularly difficult challenging word problem. He would draw great bar graphs, set up the first equation and then the second equation correctly, but then he couldn't read his own writing and would make a small computational mistake. I loved pointing out that he understood the problem and how to do the math, but had written a number so sloppy that he had messed himself up. Nothing has helped him understand the importance of good handwriting more than moments like that. He still doesn't have beautiful penmanship, but it's legible.

[avilma]

I don't do any scribing for my dd6 and dd5, and I have never done (I started with them when they were 3.5 years old each). They have to write everything themselves. In fact I ask them to do every activity that the book requires. If there is coloring to do, they do coloring. If there is drawing to do, like draw 5 more fish, they draw 5 more fish. As a result we go quite slow. dd6 is in MEP 2 and dd5 is in Earlybird B. But on the plus side they have become quite able to perform long activities. I afterschool dd6 only in math. Yesterday she finished her first writing assignment for first grade. The teacher had asked for 5 sentences, she wrote 2 pages. It took her 15 minutes to write the clean copy (she had prepared the text in the previous days).

[Donna]

I scribed for dd some. If it was a workbook, she wrote herself from the beginning but she started the Saxon texts (54) when she was 6yo and I couldn't have her write in the books so I wrote out the problems she had to do unless it was a work problem. She did her own writing to find answers but if she got tired near the end I would help her out unless the importance of the work involved the set up of the problem. I think she may have started copying her own problems from the book around 9-10yo but she was doing her own work (all the writing to solve the problems) around 7yo.

 

I also scribed her stories until I found a mini recording device when she was 5yo and started having her record her stories. I found she limited what she wrote if she had to write it on her own but if someone else wrote it or she recorded it, she used good sentences with more modifiers. She could then listen back to it and write it out or type it slowly, over a couple days if needed. She is now a whiz at typing quickly and has wonderful penmanship as well. There are also no issues with writing endurance now that she is older. She has been taking notes from lecture videos and online classes since she was 8yo (PLATO courses at first and now Thinkwell or Teaching Company). 

[Black-eyed Suzan]

My philosophy has been to never let my DS7's hatred of handwriting taint his love of math. Last school year I scribed the entire time. 

His handwriting has improved mightily in the last 6 months or so. Now he does the writing for the numerical problems, but will still ask for me to scribe on the explanation questions where sentences are required.

 

 

[wapiti]

I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all answer.  It may depend  on the amount of asynchrony between writing skills and math level in addition to any special handwriting  issues.  It also doesn't have to be all or nothing - there could be a combination of oral work, white board work, scribing, and ordinary written work on paper.

Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti

[Laura Corin]

Lots and for many years?  I think I scribed most of his maths until he was about seven - he had delayed motor skills and I didn't want frustration about forming the letters to get in the way of doing the maths.  We also sometimes used number stickers so that he could work alone.  You might want to look into ink stamps too.

 

L

[Tanikit]

I used the early Life of Fred Maths books to teach writing during Math as the Math was very easy for my DD6 and the amount of writing expected was minimal - she also learnt to rule neat lines, line up her numerals, label her sums etc. By the time we got to Cats I started expecting her to write for her other Math lessons as well and now she does both Life of Fred and the other Math (whichever we are using at the time) simultaneously and writes everything and she writes it neatly because that is what I expect.

[EKS]

For my older son, I stopped scribing math when he was 11yo and doing Algebra I.  For the younger one, who is 11yo now and doing geometry, I still scribe somewhat.  I copy problems for him and I scribe on the whiteboard frequently when we do practice exercises.  I think my younger son is more impaired in the writing department (the physical act) than the older one and I anticipate doing the level of scribing for the foreseeable future.

[kohlby]

We don't start anything formal until legal first grade age.  So, none at your child's age but we weren't doing formal work.  In first grade, I did some here and there.  My eldest was fine motor delayed and my second has perfectionism issues that would slow her down.  By second grade, they wrote close to all.  I think it was all for my eldest.  My middle child's perfectionism slowed her down and got her mad - and she has amazing handwriting but she wants it "perfectly perfect."  So, I sometimes do some of hers because it beats dealing with the stress and tears that results.  When it's numbers, she does it all.  But when it's words, I offer.  Also, her neatness is amazing, so I'm not concerned about her handwriting skills.                         Making my eldest write in math was actually a good thing.  The math was easy for him, so the writing never got in the way of the math.  He enjoyed math, but hated writing so the math helped.  Digits weren't nearly as overwhelming as words too.  We did start with the first grade level at the start of first grade, but were through 3.5 levels in that first year with both of my first two kids.