x posted: Brand new university...is that a good or bad thing?

[ktgrok]

We have a new state university opening up next year, and it is only a county over. It's Florida Polytechnic. It will be STEM oriented, with lot of subspecialties that my son would be interested in I think...thinks like information security, machine intelligence, computer engineering, etc. (my 14 year old currently runs his own server, build computers for family members, etc and my husband is a Security Engineer dealing with information security). I think my son would love this and may seriously consider it. And, it is so close to home that he could come by and see his much much younger siblings from time to time. My question is....is it good to attend a fairly new school like this? It will only have been open for 4 years when he is ready to go to college. (and yes, I know I'm getting way ahead of myself here, but I am very curious about this)

 

this is the school: http://floridapolytechnic.org/

 

[Sunshine State Sue]

It's a good thing if the tuition is still free then... ;)

[MarkT]

After four years it should start to get a reputation.  A quick glance at their "Academics" tab it appeared a little trendy:

 

"Big Data Analytics"  - what will that be called in 10 years time!  "Big Data" is a current IT buzzword.

 

I like the idea that they have an Embedded System Design area. 

 

After your first job, Engineering and computer professions are way less about the particular school you attended since it is a life-long learning process.

 

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

After four years it should start to get a reputation.  A quick glance at their "Academics" tab it appeared a little trendy:

 

"Big Data Analytics"  - what will that be called in 10 years time!  "Big Data" is a current IT buzzword.

 

I like the idea that they have an Embedded System Design area. 

 

After your first job, Engineering and computer professions are way less about the particular school you attended since it is a life-long learning process.

 

Yes, I noticed the buzz words too. (not that i know what the mean, I just hear my husband toss them around, lol). But the degrees themselves are more normal, just the concentrations are the fad like terms, so I guess that would be easy to change as time goes on. 

 

And yes, I agree that the school is not that important in career when it comes to computers. My husband has a degree from a private tech school that isn't even accredited. But he's doing very well making 6 figures at a fortune five hundred company in the career of his choice. It was a matter of making good choices with career moves, and working hard and making the right friends along the way. Various industry certifications have mattered more than his actual degree.

 

I'm actually wondering more about the level of education, campus life, etc. hmm...

[mamajudy]

My DS has applied there, but we have LOTS of reservations about it. We will be attending an info session in January, which should answer some of my questions. Yes, they are offering scholarships to the first class of students -- $5000 per year for the first 3 years and $3200 the 4th year. The school will not be accredited until 2016. Does Bright Futures pay for an unaccredited school? What about other financial aid? Room and board costs more than tuition. And I noticed on their website that "downtown is your dining hall." Is "downtown" equipped to handle that many students? Would my kid be living on donuts and coffee? I'm not familiar with that area, but it's not a big city. Are all of these restaurants that are suddenly going to have to accommodate a bunch of college students within walking distance? Is there public transportation available at convenient hours? The school is still under construction. Maybe in 4 years it might be ready for your child, ktgrok, but I have my doubts about its readiness for the class beginning this fall. And I haven't even addressed the academics, etc.

[ktgrok]

Please post back after you go to the info session!

[G5052]

FWIW, I'd be uneasy. Without really knowing how the graduates are going to do professionally, you're taking a chance. Certainly accreditation isn't everything, but it can be an issue. Some employers and graduate schools won't count an unaccredited degree.  And certification by professional societies is a big plus.  It has been years now, but the professional association for my discipline once published a study that the average starting salary of a graduate of a school using the association-certified curriculum was $10,000 more than non-certified, and the rate of graduate school admissions within five years was double for accredited versus non-accredited graduates.  In STEM fields, where you go to school can make a difference when you talk about that first job.  After that, there might be some flexibility, but not always.

[ktgrok]

You all bring up GREAT points I hadn't even thought to consider. Supposedly they will be accredited by the time he gets there, we will see. Also, we will strongly encourage industry certifications in addition to his degree, as we have seen first hand that they tend to mean almost more if not more than the degree itself. (hubby is studying for the CISSP exam for that very reason). 

[JennyD]

It looks like they will be hiring faculty on multi-year (1-, 3-, or 5-) contracts rather than on a traditional tenure model.

 

http://floridapolytechnic.org/news/non-tenure-faculty-model-and-bog-work-plan-approved/

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/05/09/florida-polytechnic-u-offer-multi-year-contracts-not-tenure-faculty

 

It will be interesting to see how this experiment unfolds.  Nobody is going to walk away from a tenure-track job for a job here, so all incoming faculty are surely going to be either people who are fresh out of grad school, looking to take a break from industry, or untenured faculty elsewhere -- i.e., lots of people new to teaching, and almost everybody new to things like advising, running a department, etc.  My best guess is that there will likely be a fair bit of faculty turnover in the first years, especially among the more productive faculty members, but over time things may settle down, especially if renewal of the long-term contracts becomes basically a formality (which I suspect will have to happen, at least for some senior faculty positions).  

 

Like others, I'd be hesitant to have my kid be a guinea pig, but four years might well be enough time to see how things are going.  

 

 

 

[G5052]

 

It will be interesting to see how this experiment unfolds.  Nobody is going to walk away from a tenure-track job for a job here, so all incoming faculty are surely going to be either people who are fresh out of grad school, looking to take a break from industry, or part-time faculty elsewhere -- i.e., lots of people new to teaching, and almost everybody new to things like advising, running a department, etc.  My best guess is that there will likely be a fair bit of faculty turnover in the first years, especially among the more productive faculty members, but over time things may settle down, especially if renewal of the long-term contracts becomes basically a formality.  

 

Like others, I'd be hesitant to have my kid be a guinea pig, but four years might well be enough time to see how things are going.  

 

Yes, as a college professor, I've seen how starting a new program and hiring from scratch can be pretty rough for a few years.  The college I work for now hired like crazy 10-15 years ago because they had a new, large academic building , and ironically some of those programs are almost nothing now.  It was an exciting time because we were developing new programs and courses from scratch.  And frankly sometimes we were way off base with our best estimates.  I went from being a half-time professor in a department with 30-40 sections to an adjunct teaching one section out of nine.  So what their programs look like now may be very different after they get some years behind them.

[Lady Florida.]

I saw your post this morning Katie, and it was killing me that I couldn't respond or read replies (we were out with friends all day). Ds is interested in this too, and he's just 3 years away. I didn't realize they wouldn't be accredited right away. The school will be part of the state university system, so I thought accreditation was a given. Aren't state schools required to be accredited? I don't know much about the process, but maybe they have to have a few years behind them so there's something to show the accreditation team? I don't know for sure, but I don't think Bright Futures will pay for an unaccredited school. Not all accrediting agencies are created equal of course, but I don't know if employers look at the agency or just whether or not a school is accredited. I do know it matters for grad school.

 

We went to a college fair hosted by our public school system in October and there was a rep from the university there. The rep wasn't very knowledgeable, but he did say we could come to the info session even though ds is a few years away from graduation. They are pushing "If you have kids into gaming, come check us out". It's an hour and a half from us, but we have family in Lakeland (dh's brother and sil, plus an adult cousin though the cousin has little ones). 

 

Mamajudy, please do check back in this thread and let us know what you found out (and how you felt about it).

[G5052]

I saw your post this morning Katie, and it was killing me that I couldn't respond or read replies (we were out with friends all day). Ds is interested in this too, and he's just 3 years away. I didn't realize they wouldn't be accredited right away. The school will be part of the state university system, so I thought accreditation was a given. Aren't state schools required to be accredited? I don't know much about the process, but maybe they have to have a few years behind them so there's something to show the accreditation team? I don't know for sure, but I don't think Bright Futures will pay for an unaccredited school. Not all accrediting agencies are created equal of course, but I don't know if employers look at the agency or just whether or not a school is accredited. I do know it matters for grad school.

 

 

Because the school is in Florida, likely it will be accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS).  This is a regional organization. Getting accredited (or reaccredited) is a long, difficult process.  There will be potentially multiple visits by the team looking at every aspect of their operations, with return visits if documentation is incomplete and/or if problems were found.  In the U.S. there is no national or state accrediting process, it is done regionally for institutional accreditation, and then professional organizations will accredit individual programs upon request.

 

This is one reason why many states start new branches of their institutions when they expand versus entirely new schools like this one.  The accrediting process makes it very difficult to start from the beginning.  It is much easier to show that the new branch is following the same procedures as the accredited "parent."

[Lady Florida.]

Because the school is in Florida, likely it will be accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS).  This is a regional organization. Getting accredited (or reaccredited) is a long, difficult process.  There will be potentially multiple visits by the team looking at every aspect of their operations, with return visits if documentation is incomplete and/or if problems were found.  In the U.S. there is no national or state accrediting process, it is done regionally for institutional accreditation, and then professional organizations will accredit individual programs upon request.

 

 

 

I knew all of the above.  I taught high school in Florida and "lived" through a SACS re-accreditation, but since we were already accredited I'm not aware of how the process is done with a new school. What I didn't realize is that a university would start out unaccredited. I can see how it would be easier to just add a branch to an existing school.

I'd have to look at the particular university in pretty close detail, but this one raises a lot of red flags.  As of now, it seems they have hired one full time professor (who hasn't been employed as a professor before), and one adjunct.  If you go to the "Staff directory" under "about" on their web page, they seem to have lots of business people, but very few academics.  I don't see anyone who looks like a Dean or department head.  If they want to start classes next fall, I would think that you'd need these people to do academic planning.

 

The list of academic subjects looks trendy and flashy, but the information about each one is awfully shallow.  For example, under academics, there's "Magnetics", which apparently one can get either a BS or MS in, and is in the department of Electrical Engineering.  No professors are listed who might specialize in "Magnetics", nor are any courses listed for this major, or degree requirements, or prerequisites, or sample class schedules that freshmen might take. I don't see any courses mentioned at all on the webpage, which seems like something an incoming student might like to see.   Seems to me like the first few years at least will be shaky.

[G5052]

I'd have to look at the particular university in pretty close detail, but this one raises a lot of red flags.  As of now, it seems they have hired one full time professor (who hasn't been employed as a professor before), and one adjunct.  If you go to the "Staff directory" under "about" on their web page, they seem to have lots of business people, but very few academics.  I don't see anyone who looks like a Dean or department head.  If they want to start classes next fall, I would think that you'd need these people to do academic planning.

 

Eeeks!  I glanced briefly at the website, but didn't see that.  At any college, the core is always the professors.  If you have good professors (and accreditation IMHO), the facilities and location are not nearly as important.  And I've always benefited immensely from being mentored by more experienced professors and having deans over me with steady, wise advice.  And technical expertise doesn't correlate with teaching expertise, although the two can go together in certain individuals.

[mamajudy]

OK. Reporting back on Florida Poly info session: The session, called "Poly Premier" was held at a local theater on a Sunday beginning at 11:00 a.m. We had church this morning, which included communion. DH and DS were serving communion, and I had to play my flute, so we had to sneak out of church as soon as we were able to get away. We got there about 20 minutes after they started (I don't think we missed too much). The session started with a film about the school, and ended with a question and answer time. The theater was full, so there were lots of questions.

 

Apparently, because the school is a state university, Florida Prepaid and Bright Futures will pay for the school. There is no federal funding available, however, until the school receives accreditation (scheduled to happen in 2016). So FAFSA does not apply, meaning no PELL grants, federal student loans, etc. The first class of students will receive scholarships to cover tuition; they don't know, at this point, what scholarship money will be available for subsequent classes.

 

Housing will be available, with priority given to those students who don't live in the immediate area. Cost is estimated to be $8000-$9000. I am not sure if this includes meals. The dorms will be suites of 4 private bedrooms with a central living area, complete with a flat screen TV. There will be 2 bathrooms per suite, as well as a microwave and refrigerator, and washer and dryer (not coin operated). A dining hall is to be constructed, which will have cafeteria-style dining, as well as commercial vendors.

 

Shuttle service will be available to students into the downtown area, etc. There is still MUCH construction to be done, but they expect it to be ready by August. This is Florida, after all -- no need to wait until the ground thaws!

 

The curriculum is being developed, and they expect to be able to post specific courses, etc in February or March, I believe they said. They are working with industry partners to provide a very hands-on experience, internships, and such. They have some of these partners listed on their website and are adding to the list continually. While I was there today, a woman who works for Citrix, and whose husband works for Motorola was asking how their companies can get involved in partnership with the school.

 

They said they have hired about half of the faculty. There are no tenured positions, which they bill as a positive thing. The fact that it is a STEM school, hands-on, cutting edge, and all that would mean that academics, who spend all their time in a classroom or lecture hall, may not be the best thing. (That's my take on it)

 

Accreditation is expected in 2016, after their first class graduates (they are taking transfer students). Apparently, they need to have a graduating class before they can be accredited. They said that students should be able to transfer credits to state universities in Florida. So if my kid decided to go there (he has been accepted) and after a year at Florida Poly decided to transfer to UCF, for example, he supposedly could. (I am a little dubious, but that's what they told my son).

 

Hope this answers some questions. I have to go out for a while this evening. If you think of anything else that I didn't answer, ask away, and I'll see if I can respond intelligently

[ktgrok]

Thanks! That actually sounds fairly promising, and I will continue to watch them.

[kroe1]

If we move to Lakeland, we will be closer to Disney.

OK. Reporting back on Florida Poly info session: The session, called "Poly Premier" was held at a local theater on a Sunday beginning at 11:00 a.m. We had church this morning, which included communion. DH and DS were serving communion, and I had to play my flute, so we had to sneak out of church as soon as we were able to get away. We got there about 20 minutes after they started (I don't think we missed too much). The session started with a film about the school, and ended with a question and answer time. The theater was full, so there were lots of questions.

 

Apparently, because the school is a state university, Florida Prepaid and Bright Futures will pay for the school. There is no federal funding available, however, until the school receives accreditation (scheduled to happen in 2016). So FAFSA does not apply, meaning no PELL grants, federal student loans, etc. The first class of students will receive scholarships to cover tuition; they don't know, at this point, what scholarship money will be available for subsequent classes.

 

Housing will be available, with priority given to those students who don't live in the immediate area. Cost is estimated to be $8000-$9000. I am not sure if this includes meals. The dorms will be suites of 4 private bedrooms with a central living area, complete with a flat screen TV. There will be 2 bathrooms per suite, as well as a microwave and refrigerator, and washer and dryer (not coin operated). A dining hall is to be constructed, which will have cafeteria-style dining, as well as commercial vendors.

 

Shuttle service will be available to students into the downtown area, etc. There is still MUCH construction to be done, but they expect it to be ready by August. This is Florida, after all -- no need to wait until the ground thaws!

 

The curriculum is being developed, and they expect to be able to post specific courses, etc in February or March, I believe they said. They are working with industry partners to provide a very hands-on experience, internships, and such. They have some of these partners listed on their website and are adding to the list continually. While I was there today, a woman who works for Citrix, and whose husband works for Motorola was asking how their companies can get involved in partnership with the school.

 

They said they have hired about half of the faculty. There are no tenured positions, which they bill as a positive thing. The fact that it is a STEM school, hands-on, cutting edge, and all that would mean that academics, who spend all their time in a classroom or lecture hall, may not be the best thing. (That's my take on it)

 

Accreditation is expected in 2016, after their first class graduates (they are taking transfer students). Apparently, they need to have a graduating class before they can be accredited. They said that students should be able to transfer credits to state universities in Florida. So if my kid decided to go there (he has been accepted) and after a year at Florida Poly decided to transfer to UCF, for example, he supposedly could. (I am a little dubious, but that's what they told my son).

 

Hope this answers some questions. I have to go out for a while this evening. If you think of anything else that I didn't answer, ask away, and I'll see if I can respond intelligently

 

Thanks for the follow up.  I'd be curious who the professors are, and what their backgrounds are.  Oh, and how many professors do they intend to hire?  Obviously, with STEM, you want the professor to be up-to-date, but you also want them to be able to teach. I've certainly come a long way in honing my teaching craft, and just because someone is an expert in any given field, doesn't mean that they will be good at teaching it.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I'd be a little miffed that academics seem to be so low priority here that right now they know for certain that each dorm room will have a flat screen TV, but don't know what Math classes will be offered. 

[mamajudy]

I don't remember if they stated a target number for professors. It sounded like they know what classes they will offer, but have to have everything approved by the state before they can make that information available to the public. I think the key here is to keep checking the website, as they will be updating it regularly.

 

I suppose the decision to have a flat screen TV in every suite of the dorm is less complicated than developing the entire curriculum for a new university.

[Lady Florida.]

Thanks for reporting back mamajudy. It does sound promising. Ds will (I hope) be ready to graduate from homeschooling in 2016, so that gives me hope the school will be accredited by the time he's ready to attend. We will definitely be keeping up with what's happening there.