FLL-ds knows definitions for parts of speech but can't identify them

[lea1]

Has anyone else had this problem?  We are very close to finishing FLL2.  My two sons have learned the definitions of the parts of speech and also the various lists, including the list of prepositions.  We just covered a lesson where they were to identify each word in a short paragraph.  They were soooo bad at it.  It is clear they have memorized words but not internalized meaning.  They can identify nouns and action verbs much of the time but that is about it.

 

I'm thinking they probably just need a lot of practice of picking out the various parts of speech from sentences.  We may spend our time doing this for the next month or two, before starting FLL3.  Does anyone know quickie worksheets I could print out for this or a workbook?  Any other suggestions?

[Spy Car]

As an experiment you could download M.L. Nesbitt's "Grammar-land" (it is free from many sources) which deals with parts of speech in a funny story you can read aloud to the children.

 

If "Grammar-land" resonates with your children you might think about using MCT. The MCT approach is very different than the FLL approach. There is no "memorizing" lists, rather there is an emphasis on understanding the function of each word in the sentence, all taught in a rather whimsical way.

 

My best advice is try Grammar-land and see.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

[Miss Tick]

We took a short spin through the Sentence Family after FLL2. It was a cutesy re-introduction to the pats of speech. They will get lots more practice in the next levels. Mine are approaching the end of FLL3 and are getting it.

[StartingOver]

FLL 1 and 2 is about memorizing, FLL 3 & 4 are about putting that to use. My son is on 4 now, and he is getting it.

[fourisenough]

It clicked for my daughter around the end of FLL 3. It seems there is lag time between learning the definition and being able to apply by parsing a sentence. I'd just forge ahead offering as many casual opportunities to practice as possible.

[ByGrace3]

I panicked at that lesson in FLL 2. I thought the same...we're not reay to move into FLL3! I was way over dramatic about it ;) levels 1-2 are just laying the foundation, level 3 starts utilizing that foundation. Definitely don't stress about it. FLL 3 will get them there.

[FairProspects]

Agreeing with the others. It will come once you start to apply it. I had the same thought and after a few weeks the issue had resolved.

[nmoira]

They can identify nouns and action verbs much of the time but that is about it.

I wouldn't worry much beyond this and memorizing "am, is, are, was, were, have (but not "to have"), has, had" as "always verbs." FLL had a longer list IIRC. Mastery isn't expected at that stage.

[Haiku]

I panicked at that lesson in FLL 2. I thought the same...we're not reay to move into FLL3! I was way over dramatic about it ;) levels 1-2 are just laying the foundation, level 3 starts utilizing that foundation. Definitely don't stress about it. FLL 3 will get them there.

 

We had the opposite problem. I felt that my son was ready to go into FLL3 because he knew the definitions of the parts of speech. Even though I knew he couldn't really identify them, I figured FLL3 would fix that. We slogged through it for months, with him getting more and more frustrated and less and less able to keep up, and we finally dumped it when we were trying to learn about adverbs and he still didn't understand the difference between a noun and a verb. I tried several different things but we made no forward progress until this year with Ridgewood Grammar from EPS. I like Ridgewood but I am not convinced that it, as a specific curriculum, made the difference. I just think that it finally clicked for my son. He has made huge developmental leaps in the last six months, and I think he just didn't think abstractly enough before now to really get grammar. Years of memorizing definitions didn't do him any good until he was ready to understand it.

[redsquirrel]

Totally normal. The memorizing in FLL 1&2 is to save you time. You won't have to spend much time on it when you get to FLL3.

 

It's like when I was a kid and they played those 'grammar rock' songs on Saturday morning during the cartoons (back when there were only cartoons on Saturday mornings...) and I could sing all the songs, but had zero clue what they meant. Then, when I was in school in fourth grade we had grammar lessons and suddenly those songs made sense! It was like a light went on in my head. Conjunction? That reminds me of conjunction junction...Eureka!!

[lea1]

Thanks to everyone for the reassurance.  I already have FLL3 so we will definitely move on to it soon.  In the meantime I may download the free version of Grammarland for fun.  Good to know that they will get it soon and this is normal.  thanks!

[Lori D.]

Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar Rock is great; the little jingles have specific examples in them. And then you can have fun with Mad Libs (or Grammar Ad Libs) -- students VERY quickly tell whether or not they got the right part of speech in there when you read back the story. ;)

 

Also, fun free online practice of parts of speech: Grammar Gorillas, Word Invasion, Wacky Web Tales (like Mad Libs), and Grammar Blast (quiz).

 

 

I LOVED the very simple, specific/concrete way Joyce Herzog connects the abstract parts of speech of grammar to concrete learning methods. (See sample in her 6 Weeks to Understanding Grammar -- we used an early variation of this, based on a homeschool convention session with her. :) )

 

We worked together on the whiteboard with very short sentences (2 words), and then would build the sentences by adding other parts of speech. We used Winston Grammar, which is very concrete in seeing how sentences are "built", combined with Joyce Herzog's methods. Example of one of our grammar sessions:

 

 

Every complete sentence has two parts: a subject and a predicate.

For simple sentences, the subject is usually a noun or a prounoun, and the predicate is a verb.

Can you give me a noun (a who or what) and a verb (action), and make a complete sentence?

 

The cat ran.

.  .  . noun verb

 

 

 

How did the cat run?

What kinds of words add on to verbs?

Adverbs!

So each of you give me an adverb that tells me how the cat ran...

 

The cat ran quickly and fearfully.

.  .  . noun verb  adverb .  .  .  . adverb

 

What kind of cat was it -- what did it look like?

What kinds of words add on to nouns?

Adnouns! Just kidding... Adjectives!

So each of you give me an adjective that tell me what the cat looked like... 

 

The small, black cat ran quickly and fearfully.

.  .  .  . adj.  .  . adj.  . noun verb  adverb .  . adverb

 

 

We also worked it the other way, with the complete sentence from the grammar program on the whiteboard, and would start with:

 

- What is this sentence all about? (that's the subject, usually a noun or pronoun)

- So now you know the who/what the sentence is all about, what did the subject DO (the verb) -- that's the predicate.

- That's your simple sentence! Everything else is just adding on in some way to tell us more about that subject and that predicate.

- Start slowly with the easiest words to figure out what they are and label all the parts of speech. As your student becomes stronger at this, then you can have them draw arrows to show what is modifying what.

 

[PeterPan]

We had the opposite problem. I felt that my son was ready to go into FLL3 because he knew the definitions of the parts of speech. Even though I knew he couldn't really identify them, I figured FLL3 would fix that. We slogged through it for months, with him getting more and more frustrated and less and less able to keep up, and we finally dumped it when we were trying to learn about adverbs and he still didn't understand the difference between a noun and a verb. I tried several different things but we made no forward progress until this year with Ridgewood Grammar from EPS. I like Ridgewood but I am not convinced that it, as a specific curriculum, made the difference. I just think that it finally clicked for my son. He has made huge developmental leaps in the last six months, and I think he just didn't think abstractly enough before now to really get grammar. Years of memorizing definitions didn't do him any good until he was ready to understand it.

This.  Also, I think sometimes we approach things with a lot of words that needs to be done more conceptually or kinesthetically.  It's less important that they get the term right than that they get the concept that a word can modify a noun.  I LOVE the Q&A flow of Shurley for grammar strugglers, because it helps them hone in on FUNCTION.  What is modifying what, how does it relate?  

 

My ds is very kinesthetic, and I have started tossing around terms and defs for him to memorize.  I don't expect him to be able to APPLY them though.  That would be totally abstract.  Writing Tales 2 had fabulous games that could be adapted to kinesthetic for boys, so you could play your grammar.