Am I doing enough with my 2nd grader?

[PeacefulChaos]

...and while I'm at it, I'll probably ask about my 4th grader, too.  But it's the 2nd grader I'm the most... not *concerned* about, per se... just curious, I guess?  

 

Ok, so Astro... he'll be 8 in November.  He just started 2nd grade the beginning of August.  We've gotten a total of 8 weeks of school done since then - yeah, we've been taking a fair amount of time off.  So first off, do you think not being strict with a schedule could be why I feel like maybe he's not doing enough?  Just because it hasn't been day in and day out for the last few months straight?  

 

Anyway, his subjects:

Reading - I don't assign reading to Astro, but he has to read aloud to me daily.  He's still not a great reader.  He isn't super-fluent... there is a lot of one. word. at. a. time. reading - ok, that's pretty much all it is.  Some days he can sound out longer words that he'd normally have problems with (excellent, thousand, nothing real hard but those are what come to mind) but most days he's still sounding out shorter stuff.  He doesn't regularly remember the 'rules' - how to pronounce 'igh' in high, fight; the 'ou' sound in couch or mouse; how to pronounce could, should, would; even what 'short' and 'long' vowel sounds are.  But I REALLY don't want to go back to the beginning with him because it was horrible the first time around and I don't think it would be any better to go back to the book we started in Kindergarten!  But overall, I'm not happy with his reading level.  I feel like we've been here forever, and I have no idea how to get past this and on to the next thing.   :(

 

Grammar - he's handling grammar fine.  I don't know how much he knows - he seems to know what nouns and verbs are, etc, but he isn't big on answering questions if he's asked.  He'll just stare off somewhere else and 'hmm' or 'uhh' until I can't wait any longer for the answer so I prompt him, until I prompt him so much he's pretty much got the answer.  I have NO idea if he knows the stuff or not.  But he can pick up stuff like separating the subject and predicate of a sentence in NO time, and have it down - and I really know that he's got it.  It just sort of varies, and he's always been the type of kid that I don't really always know what all he knows, kwim?

 

He still does Explode the Code and Beyond the Code.  I'm not sure which books he's in, but he does ok on that stuff.

 

Spelling - he's a terrible speller.  It's not unusual for him to get 3/10 on a weekly spelling test.  On a good week, 5-6/10, and on a bad week, 1/10.  I don't know if switching programs (currently use spelling workout because it's easy and cheap, with reviewing the words each day on top of a workbook page per day) would help?  Sort of related to that...

 

Writing - we have stayed away from writing programs thus far.  I had him do copy work last year, but he has a hard time with it and takes forever because he does one letter at a time.  His handwriting isn't pretty, he doesn't know how to spell words and can't sound them out well - making dictation impossible, and he often forgets things like capitalization, punctuation, and spacing.  He does handwriting daily, and often does well enough on that - it isn't beautiful, but it's not bad, either.  But anything else tends to be a mess.

 

That covers LA.

 

Really, math doesn't worry me - he seems to do well and catch on.  We use Math U See.

For science and history (and art and geography), I'm not worried either.  It's just the LA part that I'm not 100% sure about.  

 

So?  Is it enough?  Should I switch stuff?  Change programs?  Start over?  Get him tested for learning disabilities? Tell me what to do!!   :lol:

 

 

As far as Link... I *think* he does enough.  I just see on here sometimes how people say their 4th grader takes 4-5 hours to do work and I'm like : :sad: because he doesn't take that long.  On a regular day it's maybe 3 hours or so?  He does:

Latin - Latin for Children A (totally not worried about this one - it's what takes him the longest of all his subjects)

Grammar - It's an easy-ish program, but we didn't like the one we started with.  I wanted something that was independent so we went with GWG.  Please don't reply with how bad you think the program is (or how bad you know it is) - it's what we have, and I like it, at least for this year, so we'll be sticking with it, at least for this year.  I'll welcome other suggestions for programs you like for future years - ftr, we don't like R&S or FLL.  I'd like something that doesn't require a ton from me, too.  

Spelling - he does spelling workout.  It's fine.  He doesn't really need a spelling program that is super hard core, because he's a natural speller, so I don't worry about that.

Writing - we don't do a formal writing program.  I hadn't bought one because I was under the impression we wouldn't need one with R&S this year.  He still didn't do much writing with R&S, so Idk why I was under that impression, but we switched anyway so that's moot.  I'll probably do a formal writing program with him next year, which I had a whole other thread about.  He does do handwriting daily still.

Reading - I do assign reading (this month it's Little Men), and on top of that he can read as much as/whatever he wants.  His assigned reading is 30 minutes/day, but he has to meet the deadline at the end of the month for the book, too, so if he can't do that, he has to read outside of that daily allotment as well.  His reading is of NO concern to me whatsoever - he reads great.

He just started Dance Mat typing to start learning that.  No complaints there.

Math - He's in Math U See, finishing up Gamma.  We switched from Singapore last year and because of the different sequence, we are a little behind there.  No biggie.

He does geography daily, and we are fine in that area.  We do science and history together once a week, and he does well in art.

So really I guess I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing?  Anything super-duper important?  

 

Anyway, thanks for reading all my questions and I'd LOVE to hear some replies!!  Thanks so much!

 

 

 

[Mommy22alyns]

I could be totally off base here, so feel free to disregard this if other more  experienced posters say otherwise.  I'm thinking that if reading is still a struggle for your 2nd grader, then drop the other LA and focus on that.  Delay spelling.  Delay grammar (I know for sure that this can be done; we use R&S and the 2nd grade book is completely optional).  Keep ETC.  You might want to  try something like MCP Phonics - this will go over the rules.  We used C in second grade, but I would suggest B for Astro.  It's not very expensive and you can skip the TMs.   I would have him do small bits of handwriting daily too.  You could make up your own sheets.

 

Link - it looks good to me.  I would probably find a formal writing program for him - personally.  Again, if other posters say it's not so important, disregard!  Some kids are a little more focused than others.  Sylvia can get through her work in record time and has nothing but minor mistakes, whereas Rebecca can dawdle with the best of them.  And that's my whole other thread!

 

 

[The Way of My People]

I agree that now is the time to really focus on reading and not worry about other language arts. No, don't start all over with another phonics program (sounds like you've already completed one), but review a rule each time you notice he's struggling to apply it.

 

I would do two reading sessions with him each day, make sure he also had silent reading time, and do lots if fun read alouds with him.

 

Perhaps something like the Victory Drill Book would increase his speed/fluency and give him some confidence? It only takes a couple of minutes a day...

[Chris in VA]

Agreeing with other posters re reading.

I'd say the cure for many reading problems is simply practice. I definitely am pro-phonics, but I think sometimes we go too quickly thru the rules--some kids need more time in the CVC stage, or weeks with just CVC/silent e/blends before they hit the other rules. It doesn't sound like he's really reached fluency with the earlier stages. I'd find as much as I could at his level of comfort (after discerning where that is, exactly) and have him read that for a while to up his confidence and really cement skills. If you want to do spelling, make your own list that matches his level of comfort. I'd drop everything else for a bit--and introduce new (well, reintroduce) vowel combos and such very slowly. You can continue to train his ear to higher level vocab by reading to him. 

 

Also, it sounds like he may do well with manipulatives. (I see you use MUS, so that's a tip-off! lol)  Do you have linking cubes or small blocks of some sort? They make great letter cubes. Or use a moveable alphabet (plastic letters or wood, but you need a lot of them) to reinforce your phonics. Do you have placemats or a Twister mat? He could jump to words for spelling/reading, or hop/crawl/tap with a stick or his hand. Look at the Montessori object boxes--there are all kinds of games to use with them which could reinforce phonics in a fun way. Anything concrete could be a way to unlock his ability to retain. The Montessori Farm is also a great way to talk about grammar. I'm not sure why you don't know where he is in ETC, but maybe making that less an independent exercise and more teacher-led would work better for him. 

 

It does sound like verbal evaluation doesn't really work for you guys. Can you think of other ways for him to show you what he knows? For instance, using the Monti farm, a child picks up and hands you the correct object, or finds it for you. They also have symbols for parts of speech, which are so cool! Then they write those symbols above their written exercises. I know you say grammar is working--I just mean maybe you could add a little that's more game-like to reinforce. It would reinforce handwriting, phonics and reading, too. 

[Soror]

I'd be focusing on the reading/spelling/phonics w/ the 2nd grader as well. I don't see much point in trying to get too deep in grammar or writing until he is a fluent reader. I started both w/ds early and won't be w/ dd.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I think switching to All About Spelling could really help both your spelling problem and your reading problem, since it's very good about teaching the rules, but without having to go back to the beginning in the same book that taught to read. If he's doing so poorly with Spelling Workout I would not continue with it.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I was also going to suggest AAS for help with both spelling and reading.  My 7yo has been slower to pick up reading, too.  We have been going through OPGTR very slowly and often take breaks from it, but spend most of our time working on spelling and just reading books.  He's still at a slower pace than normal but he is progressing well and enjoys reading.

 

I agree with just focusing on reading, spelling, and handwriting for now.  Grammar and writing will be much more meaningful once he can read.  Plus those subjects can take away from what truly matters at this age.

[twoxcell]

 

I could be totally off base here, so feel free to disregard this if other more  experienced posters say otherwise.  I'm thinking that if reading is still a struggle for your 2nd grader, then drop the other LA and focus on that.  Delay spelling.  Delay grammar (I know for sure that this can be done; we use R&S and the 2nd grade book is completely optional).  Keep ETC.  You might want to  try something like MCP Phonics - this will go over the rules.  We used C in second grade, but I would suggest B for Astro.  It's not very expensive and you can skip the TMs.   I would have him do small bits of handwriting daily too.  You could make up your own sheets.

I was going to say the exact same thing. I would drop back to focusing on the reading and handwriting for now with you 2nd grader. Your 4th grader sounds fine but you could add in some writing. At least have him doing some written narrations or something. ;)

[PeacefulChaos]

I could be totally off base here, so feel free to disregard this if other more  experienced posters say otherwise.  I'm thinking that if reading is still a struggle for your 2nd grader, then drop the other LA and focus on that.  Delay spelling.  Delay grammar (I know for sure that this can be done; we use R&S and the 2nd grade book is completely optional).  Keep ETC.  You might want to  try something like MCP Phonics - this will go over the rules.  We used C in second grade, but I would suggest B for Astro.  It's not very expensive and you can skip the TMs.   I would have him do small bits of handwriting daily too.  You could make up your own sheets.

 

Link - it looks good to me.  I would probably find a formal writing program for him - personally.  Again, if other posters say it's not so important, disregard!  Some kids are a little more focused than others.  Sylvia can get through her work in record time and has nothing but minor mistakes, whereas Rebecca can dawdle with the best of them.  And that's my whole other thread!

  

I definitely don't mind the idea of focusing mostly on reading as far as la goes - the other posters mentioned aas, and that is starting to sound like the way I should go. I just have to find the funds for it and bite the bullet on spending that much money + juggling things to invest more time to do it with him. I'd love to not have to, but I'd rather him learn what he needs to than worry about that right now. Where is it sold? Do they take PayPal? Lol : D

Agreeing with other posters re reading.

I'd say the cure for many reading problems is simply practice. I definitely am pro-phonics, but I think sometimes we go too quickly thru the rules--some kids need more time in the CVC stage, or weeks with just CVC/silent e/blends before they hit the other rules. It doesn't sound like he's really reached fluency with the earlier stages. I'd find as much as I could at his level of comfort (after discerning where that is, exactly) and have him read that for a while to up his confidence and really cement skills. If you want to do spelling, make your own list that matches his level of comfort. I'd drop everything else for a bit--and introduce new (well, reintroduce) vowel combos and such very slowly. You can continue to train his ear to higher level vocab by reading to him. 

 

Also, it sounds like he may do well with manipulatives. (I see you use MUS, so that's a tip-off! lol)  Do you have linking cubes or small blocks of some sort? They make great letter cubes. Or use a moveable alphabet (plastic letters or wood, but you need a lot of them) to reinforce your phonics. Do you have placemats or a Twister mat? He could jump to words for spelling/reading, or hop/crawl/tap with a stick or his hand. Look at the Montessori object boxes--there are all kinds of games to use with them which could reinforce phonics in a fun way. Anything concrete could be a way to unlock his ability to retain. The Montessori Farm is also a great way to talk about grammar. I'm not sure why you don't know where he is in ETC, but maybe making that less an independent exercise and more teacher-led would work better for him. 

 

It does sound like verbal evaluation doesn't really work for you guys. Can you think of other ways for him to show you what he knows? For instance, using the Monti farm, a child picks up and hands you the correct object, or finds it for you. They also have symbols for parts of speech, which are so cool! Then they write those symbols above their written exercises. I know you say grammar is working--I just mean maybe you could add a little that's more game-like to reinforce. It would reinforce handwriting, phonics and reading, too.

 

I know nothing about Montessori stuff lol... Your post has given me a lot of things to look up! But that's ok :D

I don't know where he is in etc off the top of my head. I went through and marked which pages are to be done which day at the beginning of the school year, and I see him pull the book out, I explain anything he needs help with and sometimes take turns reading sentences with him, but I can't for the life of me remember the number! I think he is past 2...3? Maybe 4? Maybe the beginning of 4. He is doing two syllable words and he has only been in this book for about 2 weeks and a couple days.

I also can't remember the name of their specific math books. :lol: I'm always turning to link going, 'are you in gamma? Or delta? Or what?' Once I get past alpha and beta I just forget what comes next lol, despite seeing the book all the time!!

  

I was going to say the exact same thing. I would drop back to focusing on the reading and handwriting for now with you 2nd grader. Your 4th grader sounds fine but you could add in some writing. At least have him doing some written narrations or something. ;)

He does do narrations every week for history - this kid hates nothing more than a narration! Well, actually, yes he does... The idea of making something up to write! Creative writing - that is something he definitely hates! But I figure creative writing isn't necessary - some people just don't like it, kwim? I think he's too analytical to like something like that - he's all about information, information, information. I saw some things on my writing thread that looked like they might interest him, though. Not sure, again, when I'll have the $$ to go for that, so it may have to wait til next year. I usually buy once a year and then that's it - no homeschool budget for the rest of the year.

[PeacefulChaos]

OH and I forgot to say - THANK YOU SO MUCH for the replies so far!!

[twoxcell]

 

He does do narrations every week for history - this kid hates nothing more than a narration! Well, actually, yes he does... The idea of making something up to write! Creative writing - that is something he definitely hates! But I figure creative writing isn't necessary - some people just don't like it, kwim? I think he's too analytical to like something like that - he's all about information, information, information. I saw some things on my writing thread that looked like they might interest him, though. Not sure, again, when I'll have the $$ to go for that, so it may have to wait til next year. I usually buy once a year and then that's it - no homeschool budget for the rest of the year.

I don't think it will be a disaster if you wait until next year to buy a writing program. My ds is not a big fan of written narration either but he is really improving with weekly practice. He surprisingly is actually somewhat enjoying his writing program this year, but it is his first actual writing program and he is in 5th. He has had some writing previously with R&S and other things built into his HOD guides. I let my ds type up his final draft for writing this year and he really likes that. It seems to be the physical act of writing that he does not enjoy. ;) I totally understand about the homeschool budget we buy curriculum with our tax return and do not have extra money for those kinda of things the rest of the year.