redsquirrel Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Some people are sick of govt bad finances. Be it federal or state. I think those people would see govt filing bankruptcy as a financial start over. I'm not one of those people. Having seen actual people go through bankruptcy, it didn't look much like a financial start over. It looked really hard and sad. And they had to live with the repercussions for years. And they didn't have much left when it was all over. If the government defaults, that means that we, the people of this country have defaulted. We are the government, it is us. If it defaults on its word then so have we. I am wondering what will happen to our (my family) retirement funds if the country goes bankrupt. What happens to the value we(my family) have built up in our house? What happens to our soldiers and veterans? We have had government shutdowns in the past, but I don't think it has happened while we were at war. What happens to our soldiers on active duty if we default? Do we meet our obligations to our veterans if we default? Now a leader of the Republican Party, and a vice presidential candidate, has written an op/ed in the Wall Street Journal and he has linked ending the the shutdown to 'negotiating' all entitlement programs and the tax code. That means Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare. He didn't even mention the ACA in his editorial. So, now it is about tax reform and social security? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomtoCandJ Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Ugh I wish they would quit the freaking bickering, it's like watching 3 year olds fighting over a dead worm. I used to watch CSPAN, I can't stand it now, nothing but a bunch of drama :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Having seen actual people go through bankruptcy, it didn't look much like a financial start over. It looked really hard and sad. And they had to live with the repercussions for years. And they didn't have much left when it was all over. We had to file bankruptcy many many years ago. It was hard and sucked, but it was also the smartest and best decision we ever made. We have no regret over it. None. Well other than that it ever got that bad, much of which was completely beyond our control to avoid. However the govt is not an individual citizen. The many things that protect a citizen that needs to file bankruptcy don't exist for a country as a whole. Just look at Greece for example, stuck between Germany's resentful and limited charity and fascist red dawn uprising by citizens who have decided its time for a new government. No thanks for me and mine if at all possible. If the government defaults, that means that we, the people of this country have defaulted. We are the government, it is us. If it defaults on its word then so have we. I am wondering what will happen to our (my family) retirement funds if the country goes bankrupt. What happens to the value we(my family) have built up in our house? What happens to our soldiers and veterans? We have had government shutdowns in the past, but I don't think it has happened while we were at war. What happens to our soldiers on active duty if we default? Do we meet our obligations to our veterans if we default? Now a leader of the Republican Party, and a vice presidential candidate, has written an op/ed in the Wall Street Journal and he has linked ending the the shutdown to 'negotiating' all entitlement programs and the tax code. That means Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare. He didn't even mention the ACA in his editorial. So, now it is about tax reform and social security? Your worried about retirement funds house values and social security? A government that can't pay it's debt will quickly find itself fighting tooth and nail to stay a country, with even success often being bittersweet. I'd love to see a unique never happened in history exception to that, but I'm sure not placing my odds in favor it being likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Your worried about retirement funds house values and social security? A government that can't pay it's debt will quickly find itself fighting tooth and nail to stay a country, with even success often being bittersweet. I'd love to see a unique never happened in history exception to that, but I'm sure not placing my odds in favor it being likely. What would it look like? The rich people would hire their own armies and we'd very quickly be a third world country except for the wealthy. Vices would be managed by the mob. Just like Russia...or like Russia and Afghanistan had a baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed3x Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 These two links are to Defense.gov and DFAS regarding pay for those furloughed. From this, we will get paid a partial paycheck (through 10/1) next week if you are a civilian federal worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I keep thinking about Greece and Spain So, we get rid of social security, medicare, the ACA, and lower corporate taxes and then we will be allowed to not default? That is the offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Have they done polls like this? I didn't see any listed on RCP. It's more of what I was looking for. I guess my thought was if the people are fairly upset over it, then it would be more easily settled. When the people are divided, it could go on forever as there are essentially as many supporters to how this is working as detractors. I came across a guy today who surprised me. We were eating lunch and in casual conversation the impasse came up. He immediately said he hopes they never settle it, the gov't defaults, and states take over. That ended that conversation as I was at a loss on how to continue it. I had no idea people thought that way... I don't share it. I see mainly bad things coming from a gov't default. What is RCP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 What is RCP? Real Clear Politics Note that they are generally considered to lean conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Real Clear Politics Note that they are generally considered to lean conservative. Thanks, I've heard of it....... just never saw it referred to by initials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Thanks, I've heard of it....... just never saw it referred to by initials. Well . . . I could be wrong. But it's the only polling organization I can think of that matches those initials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 What is RCP? Real Clear Politics is correct, but I never use them for anything other than current polls - of which - as far as I can tell - they list everything (making them a great, unbiased, source) for all things "polling." Here's the site I have under my bookmarks: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/ YMMV, but I've yet to see how reporting poll results (when they do all sources) can be biased. I have never looked at any of their commentary. Except for fact checking sites, I stay away from most commentary. I've yet to find any commentary that is unbiased, so if I do look at one, I try to also look at another, opposite, source for balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Ugh I wish they would quit the freaking bickering, it's like watching 3 year olds fighting over a dead worm. I used to watch CSPAN, I can't stand it now, nothing but a bunch of drama :( I am not watching anymore until they start throwing chairs. I guess it is easy to look at all the fighting and worry over our futures. Do please recall it has been worse >.< (though some may approve of politicians shooting at each other) http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/burr-slays-hamilton-in-duel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Drl8fpWTKo This country was founded on discourse, debate, and free speech. Then everyone starts calling each other names and shooting one another. I don't expect people to get along but they need to get their crap together fast. I don't think the American public has much patience left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 YMMV, but I've yet to see how reporting poll results (when they do all sources) can be biased. Specific poll questions can be biased. They can also use a margin of error that makes a poll look closer than it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomtoCandJ Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I am not watching anymore until they start throwing chairs. I guess it is easy to look at all the fighting and worry over our futures. Do please recall it has been worse >.< (though some may approve of politicians shooting at each other) http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/burr-slays-hamilton-in-duel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Drl8fpWTKo This country was founded on discourse, debate, and free speech. Then everyone starts calling each other names and shooting one another. I don't expect people to get along but they need to get their crap together fast. I don't think the American public has much patience left. Hehe if they start shooting each other, it would make the perfect opportunity to replace them, and make watching CSPAN much more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Hehe if they start shooting each other, it would make the perfect opportunity to replace them, and make watching CSPAN much more interesting. Cspan hasn't gotten an R rating since Clinton was in office, :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Specific poll questions can be biased. They can also use a margin of error that makes a poll look closer than it is. Did you even look at the site??? RCP doesn't "do" any polling that I'm aware of - they report what ALL the polls say - from MSNBC to Fox and everything in between (CBS, NBC, Quinnipiac, newspapers, etc). If they only used certain sources, then I'd say they could be biased, but that's just not the case. They are a superb source for taking a quick glance at what "the polls" say IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Did you even look at the site??? RCP doesn't "do" any polling that I'm aware of - they report what ALL the polls say - from MSNBC to Fox and everything in between (CBS, NBC, Quinnipiac, newspapers, etc). If they only used certain sources, then I'd say they could be biased, but that's just not the case. They are a superb source for taking a quick glance at what "the polls" say IME. I read article about the site a while ago...it was from a statistician complaining about certain methods of averaging poll results? It has been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 I read article about the site a while ago...it was from a statistician complaining about certain methods of averaging poll results? It has been a while. I suspect that would only apply if one were looking for "average" poll results. I don't think there are any on there at the moment, but I could be wrong. As I mentioned before, I was only scanning the results from all recent polls (individually reported) far left, far right, and more middlin'. None had the majority in favor of ACA. (Whether people knew the details of what they were being polled about is a totally different subject, but one would suspect the "pro" sources to have tried to word their questions with as much of a positive spin as possible.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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