How do men interpret respect?

[Paige]

I believe in parents supporting each other in front of children as long as there is nothing abusive or otherwise harmful going on. If DH calls for a consequence that I feel is inappropriate, I try my best to not directly contradict him. I will speak to him after the fact and say that such and such will not be happening or that I will have no part in supporting it, and then we will discuss what to do. I would expect that most of the time if DH was being a jerk that he'd recognize it once he'd had some space and then he'd go to the child and explain that he had been a jerk and the consequence will be different. If I'm being a jerk, I want DH to do the same for me. Nothing would make me madder (or likely to act more of a jerk) than to be contradicted directly in front of the kids.

 

I think the problem some people are having is that their experience of a united front was not healthy. Someone did not step in to prevent abuse, and so they see united fronts as disheartening to kids and hurtful. Being an occasional jerk is not abusive. If a parent is constantly being a jerk to the kids, that could be abusive and is not a situation that I think united front people would support.

 

As for the rest, I find my DH is less tolerant of disagreement than me. I think it comes from his mother who also cannot understand that you can have a discussion and disagree without arguing. He has little experience with this. In my family, we had lots of discussions and debates and we could be heated about our opinions without anyone being personally offended or upset. DH (and his mother) do not get this at all. I don't think this is a male/female issue but more of a family culture thing. Some people don't like to discuss the differences and w/ my DH, I find it is better to agree to disagree early in the conversation rather than to pursue what would have been an enjoyable debate w/ my father.

[goldberry]

My experience is similar to Paige.  We don't contradict in front of DD.

 

DD occasionally sees the one parent over-reacting a bit.  Private conversation between parents.  Over-reacting parent usually goes in to address/apologize.  She therefore knows that Mom and Dad respect each other enough not to contradict or demean each other in front of her.  But she knows Mom and Dad value her as well.

 

We had a time when she was younger that she would be constantly correcting me or dad when we were with other people.  I explained to her then that it's somewhat disrespectful to do that unless it's absolutely necessary.  Why?  Because we are a family unit and we support each other.  There are other times correction can be given without making each other feel bad.  But she knows I treat her the same way, and have always avoiding embarassing or correcting her in front of others.

 

We are all due respect, not just parents.

 

Now, if the issue is simply disagreeing, rather than disagreeing publicly, that's a separate issue.

[albeto.]

I am so confused. You end by saying:
 

You know, I hope you do, but I'm not so sure because you are making this out to be an issue of "Submission/Authority" when it is no such thing. This thread is about respect!

But the first comment you make is,
 

It is a question - "What authority/source is she basing her judgement on?"  would have been a better way to word it.

How are you reconciling the idea respect has nothing to do with authority if the better question would have been to ask what authority is she basing her judgement on?

Her authority as the parent has been granted to her by the State, as the legal guardian of her children. She shares this authority with her husband. What does this have to do with respect?

[TechWife]

I am so confused. You end by saying:

 

But the first comment you make is,

 

How are you reconciling the idea respect has nothing to do with authority if the better question would have been to ask what authority is she basing her judgement on?

 

Her authority as the parent has been granted to her by the State, as the legal guardian of her children. She shares this authority with her husband. What does this have to do with respect?

 

 

There are two different types of authority. I think I am referring to one and you the other. This may very well be the root of the confusion. 

 

Mirriam-Webster definition of authority:

 

1   

    a (1) :  a citation (as from a book or file) used in defense or support (2) :  the source from which the citation is

    drawn

b (1) :  a conclusive statement or set of statements (as an official decision of a court) (2) :  a decision taken as a precedent (3) :  testimony

c :  an individual cited or appealed to as an expert

2

a :  power to influence or command thought, opinion, or behavior

 

b :  freedom granted by one in authority :  right

3

a :  persons in command; specifically :  government

 

b :  a governmental agency or corporation to administer a revenue-producing public enterprise <the transit authority>

4

a :  grounds, warrant <had excellent authority for believing the claim>

 

b :  convincing force <lent authority to the performance>

 

I am using 1a - something that is used in defense or support. So in the context of our conversation - "What is the authority  (source?) that is being used as the basis for making a decision?" It could be a parenting book, talk show host, advice of a friend, previous discussion with a spouse, basically anything than can inform a decision. 

 

I think you are referring to 3a - someone who is in command. 

 

Is that correct? If so, then we are talking about two entirely different things, hence the confusion.  

 

So in regards to respect, harkening back to my first post (I think), my question is what resource are you basing your concept of right and wrong upon? Because the difficulty might be that the couple might be basing their concept of right and wrong on different things. She on Oprah's advice, he on Dr. Laura's advice, for example. If they are using a different authority (resource), or if they don't know what each other is using for an authority (resource), then there is a lot of conversation that needs to take place. 

 

Then, in the second quote you cited here - I am saying that you seem to be making this out to be an issue of a husband having command over his wife and his wife submitting to that command, while I see respect as the issue, which is shown by considering other's opinions (in this particular situation) and being knowledgeable of why they think that way (in other words, what resource are you using to decide that? What resource am I using? Can we respect each other's resource? If not, how do we reach a compromise?). 

 

I am hoping I haven't muddled it further - but I do think the different definitions is probably the key to our disconnect. 

 

 

 

 

[mytwomonkeys]

Techwife, I understand what your point is and agree. It's not about blindly submitting to your spouse or letting your kids be the subject of one parent power tripping. To me it's a matter of feeling supported and respected by your partner. If I tell my son he's grounded and my husband starts to argue with me right then, saying I'm being too hard on him and I'm reacting punitively (or fill in the blank - I have no idea what the original poster's scenario looks like), and it happens frequently I'm going to feel unsupported. Not to mention, the issue would be much bigger than how we discipline our kids. The lack of communication, lack of trust, perceived judgement, and the overall message it sends my kids, etc. -- all of that would be problematic and create a fracture in our relationship. Unless my husband is having a knee jerk reaction and responding like a nut, I can wait until we are alone to discuss it and want the same from him. My kids already see us sort through issues all of the time, so I'm not of the mindset that disagreeing in front of children is unhealthy,

 

But maybe I'm visualizing this thread all wrong? I'm picturing one parent trying to do right by their kids and the other one feeling the need to take control. It reminds me of Nels Oleson from Little House trying to do his part while his wife dismisses his efforts & the kids have no respect for anything he says. They never stood united, and the wife never supported him for the "sake of the children".

[Catwoman]

There are two different types of authority. I think I am referring to one and you the other. This may very well be the root of the confusion.

 

Mirriam-Webster definition of authority:

 

1

a (1) : a citation (as from a book or file) used in defense or support (2) : the source from which the citation is

drawn

 

b (1) : a conclusive statement or set of statements (as an official decision of a court) (2) : a decision taken as a precedent (3) : testimony

c : an individual cited or appealed to as an expert

2

a : power to influence or command thought, opinion, or behavior

b : freedom granted by one in authority : right

3

a : persons in command; specifically : government

b : a governmental agency or corporation to administer a revenue-producing public enterprise <the transit authority>

4

a : grounds, warrant <had excellent authority for believing the claim>

b : convincing force <lent authority to the performance>

 

I am using 1a - something that is used in defense or support. So in the context of our conversation - "What is the authority (source?) that is being used as the basis for making a decision?" It could be a parenting book, talk show host, advice of a friend, previous discussion with a spouse, basically anything than can inform a decision.

 

I think you are referring to 3a - someone who is in command.

 

Is that correct? If so, then we are talking about two entirely different things, hence the confusion.

 

So in regards to respect, harkening back to my first post (I think), my question is what resource are you basing your concept of right and wrong upon? Because the difficulty might be that the couple might be basing their concept of right and wrong on different things. She on Oprah's advice, he on Dr. Laura's advice, for example. If they are using a different authority (resource), or if they don't know what each other is using for an authority (resource), then there is a lot of conversation that needs to take place.

 

Then, in the second quote you cited here - I am saying that you seem to be making this out to be an issue of a husband having command over his wife and his wife submitting to that command, while I see respect as the issue, which is shown by considering other's opinions (in this particular situation) and being knowledgeable of why they think that way (in other words, what resource are you using to decide that? What resource am I using? Can we respect each other's resource? If not, how do we reach a compromise?).

 

I am hoping I haven't muddled it further - but I do think the different definitions is probably the key to our disconnect.

Not for anything, but I think you have explained yourself perfectly well in every single one of your posts, and see no need for you to have to continue to justify that you actually said what you said.

[TechWife]

Not for anything, but I think you have explained yourself perfectly well in every single one of your posts, and see no need for you to have to continue to justify that you actually said what you said.

 

Thanks! I think you're totally right and I'm done. 

[albeto.]

I am hoping I haven't muddled it further - but I do think the different definitions is probably the key to our disconnect. 

 

You didn't muddle it at all. I finally understand. Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

 

:)

[Mom-ninja.]

I just wanted to point out that you can be a united front AND disagree in front of the kids.

 

DH and I only have private disagreements/discussions about things that are:

 

a) none of the kids' business

 

B) including elements that we do not want to discuss with the kids yet

 

c) issues that DH and I know will be deeply contentious for us

 

Other than that, we are very open with the fact that we do not see eye to eye on every issue. The positive of this is that the kids get to see us disagree in a respectful way and work together to find a solution.

 

The key though is respectful disagreement; we don't name call, (other than pet, fun, family names), and we don't engage in temper tantrums. Also, we have each other's back and the kids know it. On the rare occasion one child tries to do an end run around one of us we both lower the boom.

:iagree:   I don't see a reason to try and hide the fact that parents disagree. I think a better life lesson is to model to kids *how* to discuss disagreements and come to an acceptable resolution.

 

No code phrase here. If I don't agree with my dh I say so right then. I'll give my reasons and we discuss. The kids sometimes give their point of view as well.

 

I just don't see the value of always presenting "a united front" to kids. I'm not talking about screaming and fighting in front of kids.