Thoughts on combining Lials BCM and RightStart Geometry?

[Tonia]

DD is in her last year of RightStart (not counting RS Geometry) and I'm trying to figure out where to go next. I know RS recommends a combo of Videotext and RS Geometry but I'm just not sure about that. I like the looks of Lials BCM - for those who have used it do you think it would work to divided it over 2 years (5th and 6th grades) and use it in conjunction with RS Geometry? If we did that would dd move on to Lials prealgebra after that (for 7th grade)?

[maize]

If your child likes BCM I think combining and using both programs over two years would work just fine. I considered doing something like this, but BCM just looked boring to me. We

decided to stick with MM instead, with RS geometry on the side.

[GailV]

Younger dd did RightStart geometry (the old version) followed by Lial's BCM.  When I asked what she thought about combining them over the course of 2 years, she pointed out that BCM has a chapter on geometry in it.  The Lial's version of geometry is much more concise, obviously -- they assume you already know the basics. 

 

While she was doing the RS geometry, she sometimes worked on Key to Fractions or Key to Decimals.  Both of my dds have needed more work on fractions and decimals than RS gave them.  It could be that BCM would cover that for you.

 

Also, we consider BCM to actually *be* pre-algebra.  After she completed it, she started Jacob's Algebra.  I know we've had numerous discussions here about whether to do BCM instead of/in addition to pre-algebra.  It probably depends on how much the repetition would benefit your child vs. driving them nuts. 

[Soror]

We will be in the same boat next year and I am really undecided what to do. I wish I could preview it first.

[Tonia]

While she was doing the RS geometry, she sometimes worked on Key to Fractions or Key to Decimals.  Both of my dds have needed more work on fractions and decimals than RS gave them.  It could be that BCM would cover that for you.

 

Also, we consider BCM to actually *be* pre-algebra.  After she completed it, she started Jacob's Algebra.  I know we've had numerous discussions here about whether to do BCM instead of/in addition to pre-algebra.  It probably depends on how much the repetition would benefit your child vs. driving them nuts. 

 

I forsee that we'll have the same issue - dd will need more work with fractions, decimals, and perhaps long division. (I'm making it a point to schedule in more game time this year so we can really work through all the fraction games - hoping that will help). That's why I was considering Lial's - to basically review concepts already covered and to firm up any places dd needs the extra help.

 

Age and experience-wise I'm not sure she'll be ready for algebra in 7th. Old editions of Lial's are pretty cheap so I could always pick up a used copy of pre-A and if it's too easy then switch to algebra.

 

Did your dd like the Key to... series?  I am basically looking for some sort of "in-between" program - something to review the basic operations and shore up any issues before moving on to the high school math sequence.  Hence the reason for looking at Lial's.

[Tonia]

I was just looking at the Lial's series and saw there is an Essential Mathematics book that covers whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratios and percents. Would that be more appropriate for a 5-6th grader than BCM? And then follow up with Lial's Pre-A in 7th?

[Tonia]

We will be in the same boat next year and I am really undecided what to do. I wish I could preview it first.

 

Soror - found this online after searching - BCM sample

[Soror]

I actually have a copy of BCM :), thank you though, I meant that I wish I could review RS Geo. I've heard great things about the Key to series as well and would like to review them. Then of course there is the option to do MM, picking and choosing which sections need more work. I think BCM would be a bit wordy for ds (from what I recall of it, although I haven't looked it over in a while). I'm not in a rush to get ds to Algebra either but don't want to waste his time. I wish that BA was further along as I wanted him to finish it before starting pre-A.

[Mom0012]

My dd used RS A - C and then we moved on to CLE.  I remembered how much she had enjoyed the drawing lessons in RS C, so we added in RS G last year as a supplement in 5th grade.  Honestly, it did not seem to be well done, IMO.  While geometry is a real strength for my dd, she just didn't get the point of many of the lessons.  Neither did I.  We quit at about lesson 30.  I was really disappointed because I thought this would be a perfect supplement for her.

[Aloha2U]

DD is in her last year of RightStart (not counting RS Geometry) and I'm trying to figure out where to go next. I know RS recommends a combo of Videotext and RS Geometry but I'm just not sure about that. I like the looks of Lials BCM - for those who have used it do you think it would work to divided it over 2 years (5th and 6th grades) and use it in conjunction with RS Geometry? If we did that would dd move on to Lials prealgebra after that (for 7th grade)?

 

Just out of curiosity, what makes you unsure about using VT alongside RS G?  

 

I'll share some of my thoughts with you that led me to decide on combining RS G and VideoText (Modules A, B, & C) for a two year program—finishing VT (Modules D, E, & F) in a third year.  First of all, it is my understanding that any concerns I may have about my little man needing more practice with decimals, fractions, and such are covered in Module A, which we will be begin after Lesson 81 in RS—halfway through it.  At that time, we will do RS G 2x per week and VT A 2x per week.  Meanwhile, after each current RS G lesson—1 lesson per day, 4x per week—he works on a daily multivide, and then we play games on the fifth day. Mind you, he is getting practice with fractions, decimals, multiplication, and division in the actual RS lessons, which (in my opinion) is a sufficient amount of math at this point.

 

Also, being that my little man has begun RS G as a 4th grader, it's a comfort to know that even if at the end of our 5th grade year I feel that he needs additional reinforcement or even remediation, there's still plenty of time. We're not behind or in any rush, so no worries. If your daughter were to begin it next year, I believe she would be in the same boat.

 

Lastly, Dr. Cotter's notes in the RS Yahoo group—What is RS Geometry—spoke to me, and I can't see us doing math any other way right now. Just some food for thought.

[Mom-ninja.]

We do RS Geometry along with MM as a pp mentioned.

[Tonia]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you unsure about using VT alongside RS G?  

 

For one, I'm not sure how much practice there is with all the basic operations and things before you actually get to the algebra portion of VT. My dd is going to need a year or two to really solidify all that before moving on to algebra. Second, the price. It's really more than I want to spend.

 

I'm still considering my options. Right now I'm leaning towards doing a combination of Lial's Essential Mathematics and RS G spread out over 2 years and then Lial's PreA in 7th.

[Tonia]

My dd used RS A - C and then we moved on to CLE.  I remembered how much she had enjoyed the drawing lessons in RS C, so we added in RS G last year as a supplement in 5th grade.  Honestly, it did not seem to be well done, IMO.  While geometry is a real strength for my dd, she just didn't get the point of many of the lessons.  Neither did I.  We quit at about lesson 30.  I was really disappointed because I thought this would be a perfect supplement for her.

 

Thanks for mentioning that, Pastel. Guess I'll be googling to read some reviews :)

[Aloha2U]

I was just looking at the Lial's series and saw there is an Essential Mathematics book that covers whole numbers, fractions, decimals, ratios and percents. Would that be more appropriate for a 5-6th grader than BCM? And then follow up with Lial's Pre-A in 7th?

 

Viewing the samples of both, the content and problems appear to be almost identical on the shared topics (Chapters 1-6), but BCM goes beyond that to include Measurement, Geometry, Basic Algebra, and Statistics (Chapters 7-10).

 

Lial's EM:  Table of Contents, Sample

Lial's BCM: Table of Contents, Sample

Lial's Prealgebra:  Table of Contents, Sample

 

I agree that EM (instead of BCM) seems the better way to go with what you want to accomplish.  Fwiw, I'd like to have a textbook on hand alongside VT anyway, so I think you may have inspired me to pick up a used copy of Lial's, perhaps both EM and PreA—for backup, just... in case  :D.  Thanks for the thread! 

 

ETA: I forgot I have AoPS PreAlgebra on the shelf, so I think I'll just keep that for later and find EM or BCM for now.

[Tonia]

I agree that EM (instead of BCM) seems the better way to go with what you want to accomplish.  Fwiw, I'd like to have a textbook on hand alongside VT anyway, so I think you may have inspired me to pick up a used copy of Lial's, perhaps both EM and PreA—for backup, just... in case  :D.  Thanks for the thread! 

 

LOL... always happy to help someone else buy more books! (Never thought I'd be the inspiration for someone purchasing a math book, though! :) ) Thanks for the discussion - this has helped clarify some things for me. You (and everyone else) have been very helpful!

[Catherine]

I have combined RS G, VT module A, and Lial's for my young math-hater. LOL. He's actually doing fine with math and not hating nearly as much as he used to. We are close to the end of RS G, lesson 130, and I think it's been good. I have used their call in help line several times and IMO the lessons could stand to make some points far more explicit, particularly to th teacher. For me using the help line has opened my eyes to many subtleties in some lessons that completely went by ds and me.

 

Last year, sixth grade, I started VT with him and also Lial's BCM, and I also spent weeks doing fraction, decimal, and percent games daily. There was far too little fraction practice for ds in RS but the games have addressed that, plus some problems from BCM and some old Singapore books I had lying around. I just purchased Lial's pre-algebra and I'm using it also for extra practice and word problems. Lial's spends more time on ratio, rate and proportion than RS does and I think this is important. I also find VT to be not very detailed or challenging so I'm not sure I will stay with it or move to Foerster's Algebra, which I used with my older ds very successfully.

 

I don't have a plan but have simply mixed it up weekly so that he does 2-3 lessons from RS, 1 from VT and 1 from Lial's roughly each week, with practice days thrown in too. This child needs lots of drill when it comes to math.

[Tonia]

Thanks for responding, Catherine... reading your thoughts has been very helpful.

 

Last year, sixth grade, I started VT with him and also Lial's BCM, and I also spent weeks doing fraction, decimal, and percent games daily. There was far too little fraction practice for ds in RS but the games have addressed that, plus some problems from BCM and some old Singapore books I had lying around. I just purchased Lial's pre-algebra and I'm using it also for extra practice and word problems. Lial's spends more time on ratio, rate and proportion than RS does and I think this is important. I also find VT to be not very detailed or challenging so I'm not sure I will stay with it or move to Foerster's Algebra, which I used with my older ds very successfully.

I don't have a plan but have simply mixed it up weekly so that he does 2-3 lessons from RS, 1 from VT and 1 from Lial's roughly each week, with practice days thrown in too. This child needs lots of drill when it comes to math.

 

My daughter is the type who needs the extra drill too. That's something that we've always supplemented with RightStart. I love the way they teach different concepts but, for my daughter, there isn't enough daily practice to really cement those concepts. We've been adding in extra games this year - really working on multiplication and fractions.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Aloha2U]

I have combined RS G, VT module A, and Lial's for my young math-hater. LOL. He's actually doing fine with math and not hating nearly as much as he used to. We are close to the end of RS G, lesson 130, and I think it's been good. I have used their call in help line several times and IMO the lessons could stand to make some points far more explicit, particularly to th teacher. For me using the help line has opened my eyes to many subtleties in some lessons that completely went by ds and me.

 

Last year, sixth grade, I started VT with him and also Lial's BCM, and I also spent weeks doing fraction, decimal, and percent games daily. There was far too little fraction practice for ds in RS but the games have addressed that, plus some problems from BCM and some old Singapore books I had lying around. I just purchased Lial's pre-algebra and I'm using it also for extra practice and word problems. Lial's spends more time on ratio, rate and proportion than RS does and I think this is important. I also find VT to be not very detailed or challenging so I'm not sure I will stay with it or move to Foerster's Algebra, which I used with my older ds very successfully.

 

I don't have a plan but have simply mixed it up weekly so that he does 2-3 lessons from RS, 1 from VT and 1 from Lial's roughly each week, with practice days thrown in too. This child needs lots of drill when it comes to math.

 

When I recently spoke to someone at RightStart and mentioned Lial's, I was cautioned to be aware of the methodology taught by other programs—not all are created equal to RS.  So, in your opinion, does VT... 'use the same philosophy as RightStart Mathematics'... in that... 'students are taught to think mathematically and, consequently, develop an excellent understanding of algebra and geometry'?  Does Lial's share any of this philosophy, or did you like it strictly for the extra practice, and possibly the quick reference it may offer? 

 

Also, being that Tom Clark; creator of VT says, "When a RightStart Level G student wants to begin Module A, we suggest a 1-lesson-per-week approach:

 

Monday - View the lesson and do the odd problems.

Tuesday - Take for A of the quiz (if there is one).

Wednesday - "You know how it is when you watch a movie the second time..." View the lesson again, and do the even problems.

Thursday - Take Form B of the quiz (if there is one).

Friday - Relax! Play some Math games!" (Want to read more about teaching VideoText?)

 

My question is, do you combine most/all the activities listed above (for one lesson) into the one day that you do VT?  If not, what do you cover in your one day lesson with VT?  

 

 

ETA: Just to clarify my previous statement (below, in red) in case anyone is curious...

 

Just out of curiosity, what makes you unsure about using VT alongside RS G?  

 

I'll share some of my thoughts with you that led me to decide on combining RS G and VideoText (Modules A, B, & C) for a two year program—finishing VT (Modules D, E, & F) in a third year.  First of all, it is my understanding that any concerns I may have about my little man needing more practice with decimals, fractions, and such are covered in Module A, which we will be begin after Lesson 81 in RS—halfway through it.  At that time, we will do RS G 2x per week and VT A 2x per week.  Meanwhile, after each current RS G lesson—1 lesson per day, 4x per week—he works on a daily multivide, and then we play games on the fifth day. Mind you, he is getting practice with fractions, decimals, multiplication, and division in the actual RS lessons, which (in my opinion) is a sufficient amount of math at this point.

 

My plan is for us to RS G 2x per week—2 lessons per week, and VT A 2x per week—1 lesson per week (completing Monday-Tuesday activities on Day 1 and Wednesday-Thursday activities on Day 2). I'm wondering if that will be enough to learn and review new concepts with VT—the RS way, but then perhaps take the them deeper with Lial's or AoPS... if needed?