College Board - new PSAT for *8th* grade

[readwithem]

http://www.latimes.com/news/education/la-me-test8-2008aug08,0,7851692.story

 

But critics questioned whether the College Board, whose SAT test is coming under increasing scrutiny from universities, is pushing the admissions frenzy into middle school simply to boost its revenue.

 

 

Ya think? :glare:

[Beth in SW WA]

Thanks for the link. I think its great news.

[Murphy101]

I have to say as the mother of a 8th grader...

 

I agree with the notion that an 8th grade SAT would be good. Frankly, a 6th grade SAT would be nice.

 

Why?

 

Well because the goal of this proposed 8th grade "SAT" (they haven't named the test yet - so I don't think it's right to even call it a "SAT"?) is to see the weaknesses of students early enough to correct them in time to still be on track for college.

 

For example, it wasn't until I wrote down all the courses I felt they needed that it hit me what exactly that meant for him RIGHT NOW. If a parent sees that their student isn't ready for to take alg I next year 9th grade, they can really focus on math while still in 8th grade. Same goes for other subjects.

 

Frankly, after just getting my feet wet in this whole thing for the first time with my oldest this year, I've really taken a HARD look at what my current 5th grader is doing this year. 8th grade is going to be VERY hard for my first born because it just suddenly seemed to come out of nowhere that he needs algebra and much stronger essay and research writing skills to do truely upper level academics next year.

 

Yes, I still want them to explore the world and their personal interests, but I'm going to insist on more from them academicly in middle school.

 

Why? Because I rememeber speaking to MY high school lack of guidance counselor in 9th and 10th grade and learning I was pretty much up creek for college already. Didn't even bother meeting with them the last 2 years. Not much point discussing the dozens of options I did NOT have, kwim? Or going to college and having to pay a fortune in time and money to take all the classes I should have taken in highschool, but didn't get to take because I didn't have the middle school foundation neccessary. It's hard enough to send a kid to college as it is, who can afford to pay for all that before even getting to the actual college level courses for the degree?

 

Now the REAL question is not whether such a test could be good or not, but whether the actual test does what it says it will do. I'm far more leery of THAT than the notion of the test itself.

[Laurie4b]

Standardized tests already exist to meet the need to see where a student's weaknesses are in whatever grade. Having a high school student now wading through ACT, SAT, SATII, and AP, it's really clear that the testing racket is big business. Yes, he's playing the game, but it is, indeed, a game.

[CAMom]

 

I agree with the notion that an 8th grade SAT would be good. Frankly, a 6th grade SAT would be nice.

 

Why?

 

Well because the goal of this proposed 8th grade "SAT" (they haven't named the test yet - so I don't think it's right to even call it a "SAT"?) is to see the weaknesses of students early enough to correct them in time to still be on track for college.

 

 

 

Hmmm....but the SAT is an aptitude test, not an achievement test so it wouldn't really point out weaknesses would it?

 

My understanding is that even if a high schooler takes the SAT a second time to improve scores, his scores will generally stay the same give or take 30-50 points even if he "studied" after the first test. It's more like an IQ test.

 

Am I wrong on that?

[Murphy101]

Hmmm....but the SAT is an aptitude test, not an achievement test so it wouldn't really point out weaknesses would it?

 

My understanding is that even if a high schooler takes the SAT a second time to improve scores, his scores will generally stay the same give or take 30-50 points even if he "studied" after the first test. It's more like an IQ test.

 

Am I wrong on that?

 

I have no idea! I'm a newbie to this whole testing thing!:bigear:

 

I would be interested to know if others find the IOWA test a good indicator of preparedness for the next grade level?

 

However, from the description in the article, I think this test is meant to be more of an achievement test. They even say they haven't named the test yet, which hints to me that they don't want it called a SAT whatever - and have people thinking it's the same type of test for younger grades? *I* coudl be totally and completely off on all of that though.

 

And as I said, regardless of how nice such a thing might be, it's still no where near clear that it would be a quality test.

 

Frankly, I don't believe in aptitude tests. I think it's just another way for "the man" to justify pigeon holing people.:lol:

 

Seriously though. How can an unknown 3rd party gage aptitude for expereinces another has never had?:confused:

 

Hey IS the SAT an aptitude/IQ test? I have a "thing" against those. I don't think they test anything other than a person's ability to think like everyone else. What good is that? Do we really need more parrots that look like humans walking around?:lurk5:

[Maverick]

My kids have taken the Iowa from about 2nd to 8th grade. I have found it somewhat reassuring to know that they are on track, and I have found it fairly accurate in pointing out weaknesses (ie when ds was struggling with spelling, I was unsurprised to see a low score in that area).

 

From reading the article, I think the new "PSAT" for 8th sounds like an aptitude test, as it is supposed to help them identify students that are ready for advanced classes. That readiness could have to do with achievement, if students have been taught skills in advance of their grade level already (at home? in a gifted program?) but I think it is mostly going to identify kids who are naturally "quick" as ready for advanced work. It seems like there are enough tests going on in middle school to do that already--between No Child Left Behind assessments, state assessments, etc. The College Board really is in the business of making $$$. It doesn't seem like a good use of school district time & $ to add another assessment. Whether it is good for individual students and homeschoolers is another question.

 

The SAT was originally called the "Scholastic Aptitude test" and it was designed to let colleges know how well kids were likely to do in college based on their abilities. In fact, I recently read that on the old SAT, back when it was math and verbal, you could add your two scores together, take off a zero, and that was an estimate of your IQ! Since it has become non-PC to talk about some kids having more inborn "ability" than others they have taken out the word aptitude from their name and changed the test a bit--I still consider it an aptitude test even though I teach prep classes at Sylvan Learning Center and have seen kids raise their scores significantly after studying. I'd say it is more of a hybrid than a straight aptitude test as it used to be.

[yslek]

Hmmm....but the SAT is an aptitude test, not an achievement test so it wouldn't really point out weaknesses would it?

 

My understanding is that even if a high schooler takes the SAT a second time to improve scores, his scores will generally stay the same give or take 30-50 points even if he "studied" after the first test. It's more like an IQ test.

 

Am I wrong on that?

 

Unless the test has changed significantly since I took it. To me it seems that improving your vocabulary would greatly boost your verbal score, and learning more math, the math score.

 

I took the SAT in 7th grade and scored 480 verbal, 450 math. Three years later, when I took it in High School, I scored 540 and 630 (don't currently remember which section each score was for) which is a pretty significant difference. I had studied quite a bit more math and language by the second time I took the test.

 

Kelsy

[Renee in NC]

Hmmm....but the SAT is an aptitude test, not an achievement test so it wouldn't really point out weaknesses would it?

 

My understanding is that even if a high schooler takes the SAT a second time to improve scores, his scores will generally stay the same give or take 30-50 points even if he "studied" after the first test. It's more like an IQ test.

 

Am I wrong on that?

 

I increased mine 190 points, so I don't think so.

[FloridaLisa]

Thanks for the interesting link. I cannot imagine that students today need more diagostic testing. What our 8th graders (and high schoolers) need is TIME to read, think, explore, discover, pursue.

 

So much of the teaching in schools is already so engineered and calibrated to generate students that will perform well on THE TEST. Forget having thoughtful discourse and sometimes even straight common sense (needed change at the grocery store lately?). Having just joined the discussion group for AP US Government and Politics, I've been struck with the pressure these teachers face to produce test scores. One teacher recently indicated she wouldn't be teaching the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers given they weren't "on the test." Nevermind that they are fundamental primary sources for understanding the history and context for our Constitution and much of its early interpretation.

 

This new test is clearly profit driven. And while it's voluntary now, it will likely become a standard in the not-too-distant future. I'm not sure that will affect my dc, as homeschoolers, but it will continue to pressure cook those kids navigating the public school system.

 

Lisa

[Kimberleigh]

Schools are already testing the kids beyond distraction, and adding yet another high-stakes test to the mix is going to take more time and money away from actual learning. One of the biggest cuts nation-wide under NCLB has been to gifted ed. There aren't enough resources to care about the top 10% when they're held accountable for raising the test scores (notice I didn't say "improving the education," since that's a very separate issue and not one that NCLB successfully addresses) of the lowest 33%. So even if this new PSAT identifies kids who are ready for higher-level classes or more challenging work, that doesn't mean the district can/will provide it.

 

This whole testing situation has become a giant racket. Taking the SATs used to be enough to get into college. Now you need SATs and AP exams and SAT Subject tests (for some colleges, you need SAT Subject Tests even if you've scored a 5 on AP exams for the same subjects). Interesting how those are all run by the same company, no? And after all that, colleges are saying none of those tests are a true indicator of college ability, professors are still complaining that even kids who ceiling out on these tests still can't write a coherent paper, and fewer colleges are offering credit for APs. So students are required to provide more (at a not-insigificant expense) while getting less in return.