Discipline or school work?

[BusyMum]

Mr6 has been getting increasingly defiant, obnoxious and downright naughty over the last three weeks (since the last vacation). He dithers over his school work and vanishes every time I turn my back. His handwriting has suddenly become almost illegible and he won't try any harder. He annoys his brothers and yells at me. He is disrespectful and I can honestly say that he is currently not that pleasant to have around.

 

This in turn has disrupted Mr2 who is taking it out on all of us! He yells, he screams, he climbs over the bench and gets into the bicardi! :eek:

 

And in the meantime the baby's reflux is getting worse and he is now scheduled for a gastroscopy in September. :001_huh:

 

Then this morning my darling husband observed the chaos that ensued when I tried to get away to feed the baby and loftily pronounced "You don't have ANY control over those kids!"

 

I was amazing. I didn't throw the baby at him - just glared. He beat a hasty retreat with the two older ones and as I reflected on what he said I did have to acknowledge that he had a point - my discipline consistency rating has plunged downwards recently so I decided today to draw a line in the sand.

 

For English we drew up a set of family rules couched in the positive eg: In our family we use polite and respectful words when we talk to each other. Mr6 really enjoyed typing these up. Sadly, this was the only school work he did today as immediately after that he started back on his old behaviour.

 

So I sat him up at the table to copy out some lines about doing what he is told right away. That was at 9:30am. It is now 5:16pm. He is still there.:banghead: His dad came home for lunch and and reiterated how proud he is when mr6 listens to Mum and does as he is told.

 

However Mr6 has obtained his stubborness genes from both side of the family and not being of the age of reason doesn't seem to have internalised the fact that it is a lot quicker to write the dang things than procrastinate, protest, beg, plead, yell, scream and fuss all day.

 

I am feeling a little frazzled but pleased that we have drawn the line. I am really hoping that tomorrow will be better. But even if it isn't I am telling myself that it is far more important to set the groundrules and make sure they are followed than to coax, plead and bribe him through a reluctant day's school work.

 

Please tell this newbie homeschooler that getting the discipline right will make a difference.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Getting the discipline right will make a difference. It may be taking all day now (and may for the next week even) but it would take a lot longer if he continues to dawdle and give you backtalk etc. If you have been inconsistent you will have to be especially consistent and he will test you over and over until he gets that the rules have changed - not just for right now but for good. Does that mean you will never slip up again - if you are like the rest of us, probably not. But you do need to be 99% consistent for your ds's sake.

[Amy in Orlando]

Mr6 has been getting increasingly defiant, obnoxious and downright naughty over the last three weeks (since the last vacation). He dithers over his school work and vanishes every time I turn my back. His handwriting has suddenly become almost illegible and he won't try any harder. He annoys his brothers and yells at me. He is disrespectful and I can honestly say that he is currently not that pleasant to have around.

 

This in turn has disrupted Mr2 who is taking it out on all of us! He yells, he screams, he climbs over the bench and gets into the bicardi! :eek:

 

And in the meantime the baby's reflux is getting worse and he is now scheduled for a gastroscopy in September. :001_huh:

 

Then this morning my darling husband observed the chaos that ensued when I tried to get away to feed the baby and loftily pronounced "You don't have ANY control over those kids!"

 

I was amazing. I didn't throw the baby at him - just glared. He beat a hasty retreat with the two older ones and as I reflected on what he said I did have to acknowledge that he had a point - my discipline consistency rating has plunged downwards recently so I decided today to draw a line in the sand.

 

For English we drew up a set of family rules couched in the positive eg: In our family we use polite and respectful words when we talk to each other. Mr6 really enjoyed typing these up. Sadly, this was the only school work he did today as immediately after that he started back on his old behaviour.

 

So I sat him up at the table to copy out some lines about doing what he is told right away. That was at 9:30am. It is now 5:16pm. He is still there.:banghead: His dad came home for lunch and and reiterated how proud he is when mr6 listens to Mum and does as he is told.

 

However Mr6 has obtained his stubborness genes from both side of the family and not being of the age of reason doesn't seem to have internalised the fact that it is a lot quicker to write the dang things than procrastinate, protest, beg, plead, yell, scream and fuss all day.

 

I am feeling a little frazzled but pleased that we have drawn the line. I am really hoping that tomorrow will be better. But even if it isn't I am telling myself that it is far more important to set the groundrules and make sure they are followed than to coax, plead and bribe him through a reluctant day's school work.

 

Please tell this newbie homeschooler that getting the discipline right will make a difference.

 

Discipline goes a long way. So does understanding what is "normal" behavior for an age. I highly recommend the series of books Your __ Year Old. I'm sorry, I don't remember the author. But, even our puny library carries them. Google.

 

Six year olds are notorious for rebelling and testing limits. It's a good and normal thing. You do not have to let him take charge of the house, but you also do not have to make this a HUGE power struggle. I've btdt, you really don't want this.

 

How old is the baby? Do you have help with the reflux? Is this the only other sibling? No matter how grown up your 6 yo seems to you, he's a little, little boy. He's most likely jealous of the time you're spending with the baby and at the same time feeling a need to grow up and away from you (not far away, just a little bit). My guess is you have a very conflicted little boy on your hands. He wants to be the "big" boy you think he is, but he's not.

 

I feel like I'm saying this a lot lately, but I wouldn't keep saying it if it weren't true. For a 6 yo (K or 1) school should not last longer than 2 hours a day, in my experience - even with a VERY advanced kid. What in the WORLD could be so important that he had to sit for that long today?

 

This is a family issue, not a power issue. Please don't make it about who's in charge. You'll be very unhappy if you do. Break the subjects down into 15 minute lessons (you can continue a lesson but break at 15 minutes). Let him run around, be active. If you can stand it, do hands-on things (I know this is not for everyone). At the very least let him pick the next subject you move on to.

 

I PROMISE you (cross my heart and all of that) he will learn. It doesn't have to happen THIS year. You don't need to have him able to do "party tricks" for anyone. It will come together. The baby will get through the refulx, you'll get some sleep, it might take a year or two, but it WILL happen.

 

Read aloud. Take long walks. Do simple experiments at home. Do messy art projects in the yard while the weather is good. Again, I PROMISE he will learn.

 

Cut yourself some slack. I'm glad your dh left before he could say anything else. Maybe take a weekend of and give him a taste of full-time mothering?

 

(((()))) I'm on your side. I've been where you are. I really want you to succeed. BUT, you have to slack up a bit.

[BusyMum]

LOL! If I slack up anymore I'll be horizontal! He can complete everything in 90 minutes with a bit of dither time factored in. No activity lasts more than 15 minutes and I give him a list of what I want him to work through in a day and he chooses which order he does it in. We have a long walk early every day otherwise the tot climbs the walls - usually at least 45 mins of walking with time at the park etc.

 

He will be seven at the end of this month. He has a two year old brother and a 7.5 month old baby. We don't have any family or friends nearby to assist.

 

I very much appreciate your advice and will take the time to assimilate it all.

[brehon]

Mr6 has been getting increasingly defiant, obnoxious and downright naughty over the last three weeks (since the last vacation). He dithers over his school work and vanishes every time I turn my back. His handwriting has suddenly become almost illegible and he won't try any harder. He annoys his brothers and yells at me. He is disrespectful and I can honestly say that he is currently not that pleasant to have around.

 

<snip>

 

So I sat him up at the table to copy out some lines about doing what he is told right away. That was at 9:30am. It is now 5:16pm. He is still there.:banghead: His dad came home for lunch and and reiterated how proud he is when mr6 listens to Mum and does as he is told.

 

However Mr6 has obtained his stubborness genes from both side of the family and not being of the age of reason doesn't seem to have internalised the fact that it is a lot quicker to write the dang things than procrastinate, protest, beg, plead, yell, scream and fuss all day.

 

<snip>

 

Please tell this newbie homeschooler that getting the discipline right will make a difference.

 

I agree with everything Amy wrote. Has something changed or is something different which might account for this behavior? Did his attitude change start when you started school? When you started having to focus on the wee one and the upcoming surgery? Don't limit your thinking to things which might stress an adult. As you know kids can strongly react to things we grown-ups believe just isn't that big a deal. Is this behavior which occurs only when he's doing his lessons? Or does he exhibit this behavior all the time?

 

He is six. I know it's a hard age. My eldest (now 7) was a bear to be around at six. Six was a hard year for us. Have you read The Five Love Languages of Children? This book has helped me identify ways of showing my love for my kids in ways which resonate with them.

 

I might suggest dropping formal school right now. He won't be "behind". Focus on him as much as you can and work on repairing your relationship with him. There is nothing he has to learn today or this year which he won't learn next year or even later this year. Just have fun with him.

 

I have 4 kids; I know it's hard to give each one individual time. I've had 2 with very serious reflux as infants (fortunately, no surgical intervention was needed). You're very stressed; your ds is very stressed; your family is stressed. One of the things I took away from the Love Languages book is that there can be no discipline without there first being unconditional love for the child. What the authors mean is that we parents can discipline (or punish - they don't use those terms interchangeably) all we want; but, if the child isn't convinced that we love them first, the discipline will simply engender anger, hurt, and ill-feelings. I'm by no means saying you don't love your child or that your love is conditional. Sometimes, though, especially when we're in a rut, the child thinks that maybe Mama doesn't love him or may not love him when he's bad. So, he tests the "limits" of your love. See, there's that funky kid-view again.

 

Find informal times to learn -- nature walks, drawing, puzzles, reading together, active play outside. Please don't worry about the formal academics; they'll come in time. Good Luck with your son and I hope your youngest's surgery goes well.

[Parrothead]

Could he be reacting to what he perceives as not enough positive attention from you because the baby is sick? If you think that might be the case then work on fixing that.

 

If it isn't a case of jealousy then it is time for you and your dh to put your collective feet down. I say your dh too because of his remark about you having no control over the kids. He was there at that particular time why didn't he hand out appropriate discipline?

 

You and dh have to regain control of your household. That means constant and consistent behavior from the both of you. You're going to have to talk about what you both want from the kids. These goals must be within reason for their ages, personalities and tastes. And discipline must be a joint effort. Decide what punishment is warrented together ahead of time so you can back each other up.

 

If ds ends up with his nose in the corner 10 times in a day he will have to be with you when you tell dh about the incidents so that dh can talk to him about what happened and give him the "If I come home tomorrow and find you have done the samething again then I'll have to give _________" which ever punishment you find appropriate. And make sure dh reminds ds why he is getting _____________. "I'm not happy to do this but since you don't want to listen to your mom then you will have to get_____________." The blank is going to have to be up to you and your dh to decide.

 

If you almost 7 year old doesn't do well with handwriting realize that a lot of boys are still developing fine muscle skills. A handwriting program such as Handwriting without Tears comes to mind as something that might be a match for him. The lessons are short and there is a minimum of writing involved. I was reading the intros to Writing with Ease. SWB recommended that if your boy isn't doing handwriting well by 3rd or 4th grade to teach him to type so he can complete assignments. But at the same time keep up with handwriting lessons. I'll have to get the book and see exactly what age she said.

 

School work for such a young child can be mostly oral well up to 4th grade. Reading and narration can be oral with you doing journal keeping of his progress. Math facts can be done with manipulative and oral answers with you keeping a journal of progress, handwriting practice can be kept a minimum and completed over the course of several years. If he is finally getting legible handwriting in sixth grade that is fine. He can learn cursive in middle school. History can be coloring sheets and projects with you reading orally and him giving narrations. Same with science - oral reading with experiments. He can just sit in with the older kids lessons.

 

If sitting still and paying attention while you are doing read alouds is an issue or helping one of the older children with school or tending the baby, you should find something for him to do during that time. If he can't sit still during read aloud time give him some washable markers and a picture to color while you are reading. I still have to give dd soemthing to do with her hands while I'm doing read alouds. If you need to help the other kids with something give the boy buttons or beans to sort, a very important job to do or an apple to eat.

 

If you feel like he is just causing havoc to be causing havoc then a discipline is required that you and dh can back each other up on. That might be anything from time out, to a swat or two on the butt to saving it (schoolwork) for when dh comes home from work and he has to do it for his father or no TV for the evening. I can't stress enough how much your dh's involvment is needed with your boy(s).

 

Realize that if you tell him that he needs to sit there for two minutes while you take care of whatever that he should be able to wait two minutes. Not waiting two minutes may be a sign of either immaturity which you'll have to wait out, willful disobedience which you'll have to take care of consistently or possibly ADHD which you'll have to get professional help for. I'd rule out everything else before going for an evaluation.

 

Just make sure that when your ds tests the boundries that you give consistent and immediate correction measures. But also don't expect perfection from the outset. Work on praising his positive behavior and correcting his negative behavior.

 

Oh, one more thing I though of. Has he eaten anything new in the last three weeks? I'm asking because if he has it may be a food allergy. I've heard of children that begin to act out because of a food allergy. Once the food was removed from the diet the child went back to normal.

[WTMindy]

OK, this is just my 2 cents worth, but I would not let it take that long to copy the lines. I would sit with him until it is done. I think that this type of stubborness does need to be delt with if you are to have success in homeschooling. I actually think 9 is much more difficult than 6 and so it is important to set patterns early and not just wait.

 

Personally, I don't like using copywork as punishment because I don't want my kids to associate it with discipline. So, I would choose another method of discipline. I am of the mind that a discipline must be a bit painful to the child in order to be an effective deterent (and I don't necessarily mean physical pain). My son LOVES his dessert and so taking away his dessert after dinner is a big punishment for him. But, you have to find out what it is that works for your son.

 

Best of luck to you. It sounds like you are dealing with a strong-willed child and I applaud you for wanting to take control of the situation now!

[Ellie]

but more than that, relationship, because you want him to be the best he can be, inside and out; discipline alone can result on his sitting down on the outside but standing up on the inside :-)

 

Have you ever heard of tomato staking? It's something to consider.

[Adrianne]

Please tell this newbie homeschooler that getting the discipline right will make a difference.

 

:grouphug:

 

Discipline makes a BIG difference in your ability to homeschool. I always put discipline and character development first.

 

When life gets crazy like that, and it does for all of us not just the newbies, I also try to connect with my kids by doing fun things. Play games, color, read, cook, bake, go outside, whatever you enjoy doing together. Build on your relationship with them as a mother. Love them as a mother.

 

Once you connect with them and build on your relationship, especially the younger ones, you will find that the discipline problems will become easier to handle.

 

Good luck!

[BusyMum]

This is all great advice and I am saving this to favourites so when I have a moment i can go through and give the advice the consideration it deserves. Thank you.

[lighthouseacademy]

My 6 yr old and every other 6 yr old boy I know is behaving in this manner right now. I have been tomato staking, spending extra time with my ds reading and doing legos, and requiring him to rephrase things in a nicer tone of voice. I am also speaking in calm tones and telling him, "I am not yelling at you, please don't yell at me." When a consequence is issued it is always done in the form of, "When you make the choice to ____________ you are making the choice to __(consequence)__________." Then, when he tells me to "stop doing that mean thing" I can calmly remind him that I have not done anything TO him, he made a choice. Slowly things are beginning to get better, but you may remember my thread about the 6 yr old who was testing angry disrespectful words. The book The Power of Positive Parenting is very helpful. Also, I received this excerpt from an article from a parenting email group I belong to:

Six-year olds have to be right. The early self is fragile when it begins to recognize the perspective of others. Six doesn't accept criticism or blame with composure. Instead, he argues or even lies to avoid blame. He also hates losing and will blatantly cheat, or change the rules, to win in a competition.

 

This difficult period can be a learning opportunity when parents approach these behaviors with gentle firmness. Don't push competition on your six-year old. Instead, provide opportunities for non-competitive games and activities this year.

 

Six-year olds need encouragement and praise. They need to know that it's okay to make mistakes and how to be a gracious loser. Too much pressure for perfect grades and model behavior increases six's tension and is not appropriate at this stage of development. Focus on being attentive and accepting to help him feel good about being who he is at age six.

 

Six-year olds go through a period of noncompliance and opposition to parents' instructions. They may act like they don't hear you or dawdle before complying. This period passes rather quickly and is an expression of the developing self. Don't panic. Use effective strategies for giving instructions, i.e. call them to come to you, make direct eye contact, give the instruction and pay attention to ensure that she complies.

 

You may notice signs of tension in your six-year old. Twirling hair, foot tapping, scratching or picking sores may be common, along with irritability and crying easily. Help your six-year old cope with tension through talk time to identify feelings and talk about fears. Physical activity helps tension in a positive way; cupcakes don't.

 

Finally, don't offer your six-year old choices that he can't handle. He's more comfortable with clear rules and prescribed routines. Keep choices very simple; for example, let him choose between the red shirt and the blue shirt. Don't make him responsible for choosing his entire outfit for school in the morning.

[CLHCO]

I have certainly had days like that! My son was a really hard to handle 6-year-old.

 

I can always tell when my son is just out to assert his control over the universe, vs. when he's simply having an off day and needs a bit of grace. So, going on the assumption that you know this as well, stick it out. Then when you win the battle and things go smoothly for a bit, be ready for another counter attack when you least expect it. :D

 

I think you are absolutely correct to draw the line, just use caution to not make it knee-jerk. For example, make sure that you are giving just a bit less work than you believe your son capable of during this time of testing so you can more readily manage success. Certainly assign school but make it something cheesy if you need to because the first goal really isn't the learning, it's the behavior. Get the character in line and the expectations can go up without the drama.

 

Character is first in my homeschooling book. If you have self-discipline, a work ethic, obedience where required, calm and careful consideration of events, etc., you will be able to learn just about anything in a fraction of the time.

[Peela]

So I sat him up at the table to copy out some lines about doing what he is told right away. That was at 9:30am. It is now 5:16pm. He is still there.:banghead:

 

The problem is, you are allowing him to sit there being defiant for a total of 7 hours- that's more likely to feed stubborness than quell it. And, you are not connecting with your child in a healthy way- all that time, you are not cuddling, praising or visibly loving him- you are his adversary- way,way too long a time for a discipline issue for a 6yo (or any children, except for perhaps rare cases, IMO).

 

Perhaps you are going from one extreme to the other? A baby is of course a significant part of the equation- for you, and for the other children. Compassion is needed all round.

I agree with the others who said you need to realise what behaviours are normal at what age- your son is not unusual or way off. He just needs some consistent and loving boundaries. I believe your relationship with your son will suffer if you treat him like that- his heart will harden against you. I have always felt immediate consequences are best, and then over with. I also wouldn't use writing as a punishment for a boy, especially.

 

When I realise I have been inconsistent it is very easy for me to then crack down really heavily, but then I look at my beautiful children and realise it wasn't just their fault I let things go too far, it was also mine for my inconsistent parenting- and it's not fair to take all of that out on them. Balance is called for and it has to start with me. I try to keep my relationship with them foremost, and not alienate them with extreme punishments/ disciplines- the aim is to get the behaviour to change, surely, not to punish for it's own sake. If the behaviour hasn't changed in 7 hours- well, I don't think your approach is working.

 

Perhaps ask your husband what he suggests- I find mine is always willing to give me advice, and sometimes its really worth listening to, because he is one step removed from the situation :)

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Yesterday my dd7 was still doing schoolwork at 4:30. This was her choice. She chose to not start until 9:30, then took forever to do her work because she was messing around and kept taking "breaks". Her not finishing by 2-3 o'clock was her doing. She got less free time in the afternoon because she took so much in the morning.

 

But no way would I allow a child to sit there and work on ONE assignment from 9:30-5:16. At 10:30, if something significant hadn't been done, I would have just sent mine to her room for the rest of the day.

 

One thing I do is make sure I reward diligence and attention to task. Like when dd bangs out her schoolwork by 2:00, I pull out a board game, or we shop, bake something, or might watch a movie. See all the great and wonderful things we have time for when we finish our work on time.