S/O How important is Physical Science in Middle School for laying a foundation for high school?

[HappyGrace]

I'm toying w/ BJU Physical Sci for 8th grade this fall. But in one sense it would be nice to "unschool" science for a year to make room for other subjects. Is Physical Sci really important to have to lay a foundation for high school sci?

 

I like that the BJU explains how to measure and all that, plus is some exposure to chem before high school-this all does seem like it would be helpful later on. A lot of the topics in the BJU are things that we have only covered at a very basic level (electricity, magnetism, forces, etc) when she was younger. I would choose the BJU for these reasons and also she has done a ton of earth sci and BJU Physical Sci thankfully for us excludes that.

 

http://www.bjupress....171?path=309766

 

Would someone be so kind as to copy this to the High School board? My cut and paste is NOT working!! :( Thank you!

 

xpost

[regentrude]

Physical science in middle school has no relevance for success in high school sciences. A good math background has much more impact.

I do not consider formal science study necessary prior to high school. We do a mix of interested led studies in science in the middle grades. My DD never had "Physical Science" and started her high school science sequence with algebra/trigonometry based physics without any problem.

Math, OTOH, determines what science sequence and levels are possible for your student in high school - that is where a solid foundation must be laid.

[lewelma]

I completely agree with Regentrude. I would also add that a student must be able to read, understand, interpret, and study scientific textbooks to do well in high school science. I discuss this skill and how to develop it in this thread: http://forums.welltr...reading-skills/

 

Ruth in NZ

[HappyGrace]

Thanks! Regentrude and Ruth, this helps me greatly with my decision-I think I'll forgo the phys sci next yr so math can get done WELL.

 

ETA: Ruth, I had read that thread previously and it was one of my favorites in recent years on these boards. It has changed much of my approach w/ my younger son. Thanks!

[Julie of KY]

My middle school boys know more science than most everyone, and they have never had a text before high school level. I tell them they have to read science of their choosing or else I'll assign something - it's never difficult to get them to choose something sciency to read and they learn much more when following their interests.

[1Togo]

Another perspective. We never did any formal science with last dc until Physical Science in 9th grade. We tried to begin the high school science sequence with Biology, but it wasn't good for dd because she did need the science background from Physical Science and more experience working with textbooks. I wish we had worked through Physical Science in 8th grade. Then, dd would have been able to fit in an advanced science during high school. We use Apologia with Redwagon Tutorials, and the materials have been a good fit for dd -- Cornell notetaking for the textbook material, flashcards for terms or formulas, lectures with notes, etc.

[GailV]

Dd was happy to have taken physical science in 8th grade. She liked having the ideas percolate in her mind for a couple of years before she began high school level physics and chemistry. She said she would've found Physics B much more difficult had she not encountered several of the concepts in 8th grade physical science, for example; I have the impression that Physics B answered some questions she'd been pondering.

 

In conclusion, how important 8th grade physical science will depend somewhat on how your child's mind works. My dd likes to mull over things quietly for several months or years, then return to them for closer examination. Another factor is what science you've used up until this point.

 

She did have a solid math foundation by the time she reached high school, so that wasn't an issue one way or another.

 

I think this is a question that has lots of variables to consider!

[Mandy in TN]

High school biology and earth science will assume some basic background knowledge. High school chemistry and physics sure are easier if there is some background knowledge. Of course, a child may not absolutely need physical science and he doesn't need to use a physical science text to gain that knowledge, but a physical science text does contain background info that will help make high school sciences easier. I can't imagine that it is anymore time efficient to find books that cover that info. Also, if you haven't been using texts, a physical science text is a nice introduction to science textbooks. I wouldn't want to give a family the impression that they could just forego science altogether or be hit-and-miss about science until high school and that they could then skip physical science and begin high school sciences without any struggle. If the background Info isn't in place, the child may well struggle. (I know that no one has said to skip science until high school, but I wanted to be Captain Obvious and point this out.)

 

OTOH, I completely agree that a solid math foundation is necessary for success with standard high school science courses. Regentrude's child had the math background do physics first. I like that sequence. However, if your child doesn't have the math background that will allow him to take physics first, then it is probably worthwhile to cover the topics covered in a basic physical science text before beginning other high school sciences.

 

HTH-

Mandy

 

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Well said, Mandy. I agree that formal, textbook science isn't necessary in the elementary years, but I think that junior high is the perfect time to start learning to work through a textbook (when the stakes aren't so high) and to get some of the fundamental background content knowledge that will help them to succeed in high school science.

 

I depends on your family's context, right? If your home is a science-rich environment, your kids are reading and discussing with you and exploring scientific topics, concepts, ways of approaching the world, they will do fine in high school science no matter what you do before. . . but if 9th grade is the first time they've been introduced to either the content or the textbook-style of presentation, I suspect most kids would struggle.

[HappyGrace]

She is adept at using a textbook, so that's not an issue.

 

From what Mandy and GailV said, it sounds like it might help later to be familiar with the *topics* in Phys. Sci. (We have not covered ANY chem at all, and like I said, the other stuff in phys. sci was covered at a younger age and very briefly.)

[8filltheheart]

but if 9th grade is the first time they've been introduced to either the content or the textbook-style of presentation, I suspect most kids would struggle.

 

While I would never advocate not covering science and would not recommend a student jumping into high school science w/o a background in subject content, I don't necessarily agree with worrying about a textbook being used for the first time in 9th grade. Textbooks are typically much easier to process info from b/c the literally spell everything out and tell them the key pts. So if students have been reading entire books on topics and discerning key info from those as sources, textbooks are really not going to be difficult to use. Our experience is that our kids have no problems using a textbook and that it is not a "skill" that needs to be developed.

 

ETA: Where we have had to help 1 student develop skills is on how to study for tests based on textbook info b/c we do not test prior to high school. She is the only one so far that needed to be taught "study skills." Most of our kids have been able to take the same skill they have used in discerning key info from multiple sources for writing to discern how to create study guides for themselves. (Interestingly, she is also our student that really struggled learning how to write effectively.)

[dereksurfs]

HappyGrace, I am exploring these options for ds11 right now as well. I don't think Ruth is necessarily disagreeing with using a 'phyical science textbook' if you read her post on developing advanced reading skills. I must say that was one of the most thought provoking posts I have come across when considering science and critical thinking for the middle years.

 

The thing I think we are all aiming for is high school science readiness. And that will look different for different families since we all come from different backgrounds. I agree with math being *the* priority. But I also want to develop some science and critical thinking skills prior to HS. I think an introduction to the elements would be very usefully along with more conceptual physics. My wife doesn't have a science background and we don't simply do science naturally during the day. It takes some planning and preparation in advance. Although after reading Ruth's posts I am considering piecing together our set of materials vs. a single formal course.

 

I looked at BJU Phyical Science and it seems to be a more rigorous HS level course. Though if a younger student had a strong math and science background it may be doable. For the science textbooks I like the idea Ruth had about not necessarily having to go through the entire book but that reviewing a part could prove beneficial.

 

So far I am considering these materials for middle school Physical Science:

 

* DK Eyewitness Books: Chemistry

* McHenry's The Elements

* McHenry's Carbon Chemistry

* Chemistry 101: An Overview of God's Chemical World

* Conceptual Physics by Paul Hewitt

* Conceptual Physical Science by Paul Hewitt

* Holt Physical Science - free eBook

* Rainbow Science first year for the experiments - I have the books though not sure the kit is worth the cost.

* Foundations of Science 101 - a free online course from MSU

[74Heaven]

My children averaged a "science" class or study area about every other year of grades K-6. We did Rainbow Science in Gr 7-8 and then Physical Science in gr. 9. For my nonscience-minded 1st and 3rd borns, these years of concentrated science paid off handsomely in high school. We finished with Biology, Chemistry and A&P Biology in gr 10-12.

 

It is kind of like Latin (or many other subjects); if your students starts Latin about 3rd/4th grade and continue on for 4-5 years, their high school Latin study is easier, less confusing, less stressful and includes a lot of review and includes a great knowledge base to build on. But, they can still start Latin in 9th grade and master 2-3-4 years of high school Latin w/o too much trouble.

 

I like making the high school years "easier" (so to speak) by having very solid foundations from the earlier years' studies. Now, as many posters have said, there are numerous ways to establish that foundation - textbook, grade-level, precept upon precept is just one approach.

 

I am very glad we did jr high science studies!

 

Lisa J, mom to 2 graduates, 3 still hsing

 

Lisaj, mom to 5