If you were going to switch from AoPS...

[GinaPagnato]

Ds is finishing chapter 11 of the Intro to Algebra text. Things have been going pretty well, but as we proceed and the material becomes more challenging, I'm having a harder time helping him when he needs it. We utilize all components: book, videos, Alcumus, etc. He's also done some of their on-line classes. Looking forward, if I were to put him in a more traditional math curriculum that is also challenging (but not as challenging as AoPS),what would it be?

 

He did Saxon for a year or two and was bored. to. tears. Might that be different now for higher math? I don't even know what would be appropriate at this point---Algebra 2?

 

I'm also thinking that at some point in the future I may want him in a co-op for math. If this is the case, the approach will be much more traditional, so which program would help him more easily integrate into a math class?

 

I feel so bummed. I really want AoPS to work for him. And it's not like it's NOT working, it's just that I'm seeing it becoming progressively more difficult, and I'm not sure if ds can maximize his understanding if *I* can't help him. I'm not a math-whiz, although I'm not bad at it, but sometimes there are those times when he needs some real help, and I feel like I'm unable to fully give it to him.

 

Any ideas?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Is chapter 11 the one that introduces quadratics with factoring and completing the square? If so we found that a dip into another book for an intensive on multiplying polynomials gave them a better feel for what amounts to the inverse. We used an old Dolciani.

[Candid]

You could also look at Singapore's materials. I loved how they taught math at the secondary level (more than I did the primary series).

[Julie of KY]

I've thought about switching my second to Forester's Algebra. He sometimes works in Forester's when he gets bogged down in AoPS, but so far AoPS is becoming progressively more of a fit for him.

[Kathy in Richmond]

How about Dolciani?

[GinaPagnato]

I've just begun looking into Foresters and Dolciani. Dolciani is an older text series, correct? So there wouldn't be any video lectures ds could watch, whereas there are with Foresters, I think.

 

Where would I place ds? Algebra 1 or 2?

 

 

[Kathy in Richmond]

A lot of us like the old Dolciani editions from the 60s and 70s. Search for Dolciani threads by Jane in NC, and you should find some valuable info. I've never had to order them, but i do have the old copies that I used in school.

 

Dolciani has a lot of mathematician flavor, while Foerster is more engineer-y (if that makes sense!). I used the old Dolciani alg 1 and 2 to supplement with my kids. Problem sets have three levels, from straightforward to challenging. The level C problems will be similar to AoPS, so he'll still have a challenge available.

 

Doesn't AoPS algebra 1 leave off about where your son is now? He could probably go directly into Dociani algebra 2. There's enough review material in the first few chapters to help him in the transition. Old editions are cheap, though, so it wouldn't hurt to have the algebra 1 text on hand, too, if you can find it for a few dollars.

 

As far as videos go, I don't know of any - maybe someone else does. But the scope & sequence of algebra 1 is pretty standard stuff, so I'd probably just coordinate his lessons to the free online videos already on the AoPS site or Khan Academy.

[GinaPagnato]

Oh my goodness, there are so many editions of the Dolciani books 1 and 2 that I have no idea which ones to order! Links, please, please, please???

 

I think Algebra 1 and 2 would be best. Do the textbooks have the problems the student works out? Are there tests? Solution manuals?

 

Some of the images I'm seeing on Amazon of the older editions don't provide a look inside the book, so I can't figure out what I'm getting.

 

Thanks so much! I'm also thinking maybe we don't have to throw in the AoPS towel completely (actually I think ds would be very sad for that to happen). Maybe I just need to teach out of a different book for a little to make sure we both understand everything.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Oh my goodness, there are so many editions of the Dolciani books 1 and 2 that I have no idea which ones to order! Links, please, please, please???

 

I think Algebra 1 and 2 would be best. Do the textbooks have the problems the student works out? Are there tests? Solution manuals?

 

Some of the images I'm seeing on Amazon of the older editions don't provide a look inside the book, so I can't figure out what I'm getting.

 

Thanks so much! I'm also thinking maybe we don't have to throw in the AoPS towel completely (actually I think ds would be very sad for that to happen). Maybe I just need to teach out of a different book for a little to make sure we both understand everything.

 

I don't think that the particular edition is as important as being able to find a text + TM set that matches up. I've not shopped for them myself, so I have no first-hand advice, but here are a bunch of old Dolciani threads from WTM that might help.

 

The texts have daily problem sets, probably more than you'll need. No worry there. There are TMs and also Solution manuals out there (i have one of each for two different text levels). I don't know about separate tests, but you could use the chapter tests in the book or make up similar problems.

 

Yes, it's an excellent idea to retain the AoPS and use it, too. :001_smile:

[GinaPagnato]

Mwah! I love you.

 

And I'm totally moving next door so ds can be tutored by you, as I threatened in the pm I sent you awhile back. ;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Oh my goodness, there are so many editions of the Dolciani books 1 and 2 that I have no idea which ones to order! Links, please, please, please???

 

I think Algebra 1 and 2 would be best. Do the textbooks have the problems the student works out? Are there tests? Solution manuals?

 

Some of the images I'm seeing on Amazon of the older editions don't provide a look inside the book, so I can't figure out what I'm getting.

 

Thanks so much! I'm also thinking maybe we don't have to throw in the AoPS towel completely (actually I think ds would be very sad for that to happen). Maybe I just need to teach out of a different book for a little to make sure we both understand everything.

 

I was bit by the Dolciani bug last summer when I found three of the 1960s editions of algebra 1 & 2 at a big rummage sale. The best way I can describe the books is patient. They don't seem to assume that the student already knows algebra. Instead the concepts are taught step by step. There is a bit of a discovery method, in that the concept is taught and then the problem sets work that concept to the limits.

 

Several of my books have answers to odd numbered problems in the back. But they are answers only, not solutions. Solution keys are much dearer. What I have done is worked through the chapters ahead of my kids. I tend to do this at swim meets or on long drives. I will end up with a spiral notebook or pad of graph paper that has worked copies of the problems. As I go, I circle problems that I think required demonstration of key concepts. Then I pick test problems from what I'd circled.

[Brenda in MA]

Gina,

 

I've used the slightly newer Dolciani books with my ds (the Classic editions, circa 2000). These seem easier to find TMs for. If you can find the TMs, they have reproducible chapter tests in them, as well as schedules for the course over a 160 day school year. I found those schedules mighty helpful.

 

If you really want something with videos/teaching, I'd suggest Chalkdust. My older son used PreCalc successfully. He's one that does very well with detailed explanations, and he really, really liked the Dana Mosley lectures.

 

My younger son is using Chalkdust's Calc right now (after finished the Dolciani books), and he is finding the lectures very helpful, too.

 

I probably would have tried AoPS with my younger guy if I had been aware of it several years ago. By the time I learned about it, he was already into the Dolciani books and doing well, so I figured I shouldn't fix what wasn't broken.

 

Best wishes, and I hope you find a good fit!

Brenda

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Weird, dolciani left me all cold. I just don't see the hype. We've used AoPS, Lial's and Jacob's here. I do have one Dolciani book, not an old old version, just an old one (from the 80's) with some programming exercises in it.

 

[katilac]

We found it really hard to find a starting point in another book when we switched from AOPS, because they cover each topic in depth right from the get-go. So, if you are switching mid-book, you may have covered linear equations to the Algebra 2 level, but not covered functions at all.

 

We wound up just starting over again, and hoping like mad that the months spend on AOPS pay off in the long run, lol.

 

Speaking of Dolciana, do they have good geometry books as well??

[GinaPagnato]

We found it really hard to find a starting point in another book when we switched from AOPS, because they cover each topic in depth right from the get-go. So, if you are switching mid-book, you may have covered linear equations to the Algebra 2 level, but not covered functions at all.

 

We wound up just starting over again, and hoping like mad that the months spend on AOPS pay off in the long run, lol.

 

Speaking of Dolciana, do they have good geometry books as well??

 

 

Yes, I think we'll start from chapter 1 in Foersters Alg. 1, and just do the end of chapter questions. At whatever point ds has lots of trouble, that's the chapter we'll start with in-depth. I plan to come back to AoPS a little later, perhaps in the fall.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions and help!

[Brenda in MA]

Speaking of Dolciani, do they have good geometry books as well??

 

 

The Geometry book in that series that we used was just called "Geometry". The authors are Jurgensen & Brown.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

The Geometry book in that series that we used was just called "Geometry". The authors are Jurgensen & Brown.

 

HTH,

Brenda

 

Do you remember what edition you used for Jurgensen? I have a really old one, but it seems that teacher editions or solutions manuals are only available for the more recent version. And that version has some really sour reviews on Amazon.

 

Did you find a source for answers or solutions for an older book?

If you used the edition that is currently available, what did you think of it?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Weird, dolciani left me all cold. I just don't see the hype. We've used AoPS, Lial's and Jacob's here. I do have one Dolciani book, not an old old version, just an old one (from the 80's) with some programming exercises in it.

 

I actually agree with you on some of the newer editions. But there is something about the older books that I have that just seem clear and wonderful to me. Like cold, sweet iced tea on a hot muggy day.

[8filltheheart]

 

 

Do you remember what edition you used for Jurgensen? I have a really old one, but it seems that teacher editions or solutions manuals are only available for the more recent version. And that version has some really sour reviews on Amazon.

 

Did you find a source for answers or solutions for an older book?

If you used the edition that is currently available, what did you think of it?

 

Sebastian, I know nothing about this course other than its existence. ;) But, Duke Tip's geo course is based on the Jugensen text and has videos, tests, etc to accompany it. (I think anyone can use these courses at the guest price, but I am not positive.)

http://www.tip.duke.edu/node/159

 

Here is a description of how the course works:

http://www.tip.duke.edu/independent_learning/mathematics/geometry-introduction.pdf

[Brenda in MA]

Do you remember what edition you used for Jurgensen? I have a really old one, but it seems that teacher editions or solutions manuals are only available for the more recent version. And that version has some really sour reviews on Amazon.

 

Did you find a source for answers or solutions for an older book?

If you used the edition that is currently available, what did you think of it?

 

Sebastian,

 

Both of my books (SE & TE) are currently on loan to a friend, but I think this is the edition we used, it's circa 2000:

 

SE 0395977274

TE 0-395-97728-2

 

Here's the publisher's website. I believe they still sell it:

 

http://www.mcdougall...=SEQ_NAME#order

 

You can get a used SE on amazon pretty inexpensively ($15 - 20) if you want to check out the series, but the TEs run from $100 - 150.

 

The TE has the answers, suggested assignments for the course, and reproducible chapter tests. It doesn't contain worked out solutions, but since I have a math/science background, I didn't need them. I was able to work out the problems my student missed pretty quickly, and just look over the proofs and see that they were basically correct. The couple of times I've had issues remembering high school math and been stuck on a problem, the other wonderful ladies here have come to my rescue.

 

I thought the course was well done, and I agree with the first couple of reviews on amazon that say the series is good for developing critical thinking skills. It also has Algebra review sections after most chapters, so it keeps the student's algebra skills pretty fresh. I also liked that there were three levels of problems: A = straight forward, B = requires thinking/analysis, C = really challenging (but time consuming). Most, we used the A & B problems, but threw in a C problem or two every now and then for fun.

 

Truthfully, I have really liked this whole series of books (we've used Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and Advanced Math (their PreCalc)). There is quite a bit of overlap between Algebra 1 & 2, and I thought my son would be bored with that, but what happened is that his skills just got more solid, and the problems in the beginning of Algebra 2 that cover similar content to the end of Algebra 1 are actually a little more difficult/involved, so they really help the student solidify his/her skills.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Sebastian, I know nothing about this course other than its existence. ;) But, Duke Tip's geo course is based on the Jugensen text and has videos, tests, etc to accompany it. (I think anyone can use these courses at the guest price, but I am not positive.)

http://www.tip.duke.edu/node/159

 

Here is a description of how the course works:

http://www.tip.duke....ntroduction.pdf

 

 

Oh, that looks interesting. I will look into that.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Sebastian,

 

Both of my books (SE & TE) are currently on loan to a friend, but I think this is the edition we used, it's circa 2000:

 

SE 0395977274

TE 0-395-97728-2

 

Here's the publisher's website. I believe they still sell it:

 

http://www.mcdougall...=SEQ_NAME#order

 

You can get a used SE on amazon pretty inexpensively ($15 - 20) if you want to check out the series, but the TEs run from $100 - 150.

 

The TE has the answers, suggested assignments for the course, and reproducible chapter tests. It doesn't contain worked out solutions, but since I have a math/science background, I didn't need them. I was able to work out the problems my student missed pretty quickly, and just look over the proofs and see that they were basically correct. The couple of times I've had issues remembering high school math and been stuck on a problem, the other wonderful ladies here have come to my rescue.

 

I thought the course was well done, and I agree with the first couple of reviews on amazon that say the series is good for developing critical thinking skills. It also has Algebra review sections after most chapters, so it keeps the student's algebra skills pretty fresh. I also liked that there were three levels of problems: A = straight forward, B = requires thinking/analysis, C = really challenging (but time consuming). Most, we used the A & B problems, but threw in a C problem or two every now and then for fun.

 

Truthfully, I have really liked this whole series of books (we've used Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and Advanced Math (their PreCalc)). There is quite a bit of overlap between Algebra 1 & 2, and I thought my son would be bored with that, but what happened is that his skills just got more solid, and the problems in the beginning of Algebra 2 that cover similar content to the end of Algebra 1 are actually a little more difficult/involved, so they really help the student solidify his/her skills.

 

HTH,

Brenda

 

 

Thanks, this helps a lot. I've been looking at the publisher website, trying to decide if I wanted to go with this book or with AoPS. I love AoPS, but I'm thinking that my lesson learned for the year is that I have to pick and choose carefully. Wonderful and in depth courses that only get half done because there is too much on the plate isn't a blessing to my kids.

[Brenda in MA]

Thanks, this helps a lot. I've been looking at the publisher website, trying to decide if I wanted to go with this book or with AoPS. I love AoPS, but I'm thinking that my lesson learned for the year is that I have to pick and choose carefully. Wonderful and in depth courses that only get half done because there is too much on the plate isn't a blessing to my kids.

 

I learned this the hard way, too. It's so tempting to want to do the *best* course in everything, but in high school, we've found that there just isn't time. For those of us who just love to learn about and research programs, sigh....

 

Anyway, it is some solace that both of my kids seem to be thriving in their own ways despite my less than stellar curriculum choices sometimes. At least, as hsers, we do have the freedom to make changes when we see that it's best for our kids. :)

 

Brenda

[kiana]

 

 

Yes, I think we'll start from chapter 1 in Foersters Alg. 1, and just do the end of chapter questions. At whatever point ds has lots of trouble, that's the chapter we'll start with in-depth. I plan to come back to AoPS a little later, perhaps in the fall.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions and help!

 

 

This is a great idea and FWIW, Foerster's is a very solid course.