Wisdom of Easing into College via CC?

[Second Time Around]

DD, 17 with processing speed issues, was recommended by his evaluator to begin college at CC in order to ease into a college load gradually. Does that make sense, do you think? Pros and cons?

 

Also, would love to hear from other parents or students on how they or their DC transitioned from High school to a college program with some kind of LD.

 

Thanks!

[Tokyomarie]

My son entered a charter school program in 11th grade where he spent one semester in high school classes, then began to transition to CC classes. He was just shy of 17yo when he started. This is his 2nd year in the program. He'll graduate in spring of 2014. It was good for him to transition into college this way, because he is still living at home and I can oversee the process and keep track of what is happening. He needed a lot of assistance at first, navigating the demands of the schedule, keeping track of the syllabus, etc. He also needed a lot of help with his writing and handling his math homework. As time has gone on, he has become more confident and is needing less and less assistance. I still peek over his shoulder, as it were, to make sure he's not missing anything. By the time he gets to his four year college, the next major hurdles will be navigating life away from home and, depending on where he goes, maybe a bump up in academic intensity.

 

One advantage of starting at CC can be that student disability offices tend to be quite friendly towards helping students work out accommodations and other issues. At least the office at our CC is quite amenable to assisting students. Even so, another thing that has been helpful is that schedules tend to be structured in such a way and instructors manage their testing in such a way that ds hasn't actually had to get letters of accommodation for his classes, even though he is approved. Tests are often given untimed in the testing center. Even in class tests are not so difficult to complete because class sessions are longer at the CC and meet less frequently than classes on a residential campus. On test days, students have plenty of time to finish the test. As for note taking, ds is approved to use any assistive device he wishes to capture lecture information. However, because his teachers usually allow laptops as long as the privilege not abused, he hasn't had to ask for a letter of accommodation to be permitted to use one.

 

I should mention that we made our decisions regarding CC classes based on ds's ability to apply later to a four year school in the freshman admission category, rather than as a transfer student. This is the case for the program he is in. Our daughters took CC classes at age 17-18 as dual-enrolled high school students while homeschooling their senior year.

[Greta Lea]

This is what my son, a senior, will be doing in the fall. He has Asperger Syndrome and is 2e. Ask this question again around Thanksgiving and I'll let you know how it's going:)

[Second Time Around]

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences, and good luck to both of them!

[kerenlynne]

This is our plan for DS. I read about this idea in an article at LD.org and I believe it is a good choice for our DS. I am afraid if he went the traditional route, he would flame out and be discouraged. I think many LD kids can function just fine in a 4 year institution, but they are super motivated and leaps and bounds ahead of my kiddo in the executive function skills.

[wapiti]

One angle I'd explore is what types of four-year colleges your ds would be interested in (considering what his future plans are, his SATs, etc.) and how difficult it is or isn't to get admitted to those schools as a transfer student from cc. I'd also call up those schools to find out whether they offer any accommodations or other help.

[PrincessAriel]

My dd has done this. She struggled a lot over the years (low working memory and processing speed) and really didn't think she would ever go to college. As a senior, one of her coop teachers suggested she try dual enrollment at CC, which she did and ended up doing very well in two courses. She went to CC last year, even got on the dean's list. She decided to transfer to a 4 year university this past fall as she found the 2 year degree at CC would not be enough for what she wanted in a career. She was accepted into the program and is doing great. I think the CC experience really gave her the confidence that she can do this and do well at it. No doubt, she works very hard at it, her social life is minimal but she holds a part time job and she is thrilled that she is having success (so am I!). She even made the dean's list there fall semester. I highly recommend this route.

[Second Time Around]

PrincessAriel,

 

That's fantastic! So happy for the both of you! I think any parent finally gets to breathe out once we see our dk starting on the path towards independence!

 

Thanks for your perspective.

[PeterPan]

 

I should mention that we made our decisions regarding CC classes based on ds's ability to apply later to a four year school in the freshman admission category, rather than as a transfer student. This is the case for the program he is in.

 

Can you explain this?

[Tiramisu]

I'll jump in, too. :)

 

There are colleges that will accept CC credits as high school credits, so the student can apply as a freshman and be eligible for the more generous scholarships that are available to freshman. Other colleges would recognize those credits as college credits, and if there are enough of them, whatever the limit is, they would be considered transfer students. Merit aid is harder to get for transfer students.

 

Then there's the program part of it. Some programs require certain classes or a certain sequence which must start freshman year, to be completed in four years. So, to start the program, you'd have to start as a freshman and do four years, regardless of how much time and credits you already accumulated at CC.

 

For us, CC was really not an option. In dd's program the required classes are so sequence dependent, with also the general ed. requirements specific to the program, that it would be completely impossible to get any benefit from CC. Doing too many CC classes as a trial could also jeopardize her scholarships. Jumping right into a four year college is a scary prospect but for us but there didn't seem a practical way around it. That's a big reason I'm trying to investigate disability offices very carefully to find out about accommodations and coaching to help in the transition.

[Tokyomarie]

The question of how colleges handle CC credits really varies. However, it should be the case in almost all colleges that CC credits earned *while a student is still in high school* do not affect their status as a freshman admit. As long as a student has not been declared a high school graduate, they can take CC classes and still apply to colleges for freshman admission. Being able to apply for freshman admission is important to some students for two reasons:

 

a) greater availability of merit scholarships for freshman students than for transfer students (helps bright student from families who do not qualify for financial aid, yet are not rich enough to fund the total sticker price for college)

b)some highly elite schools take almost no transfer students, yet will take students who have CC credits earned while still in high school

 

The question of keeping freshman status for the admission process is separate from the question of how those credits are handled once the student has enrolled. Every school seems to have its own permutation of policies on this count. Many, if not most elite schools, do not accept CC credits to apply toward their degrees. Most in-state schools have some sort of transfer agreement that defines which CC credits they accept and how they apply to specific courses. In this case, the student tends to get more credit applied toward the degree when they are enrolling in an in-state public university and trying to get credit for their CC coursework. There are lots of in between scenarios.

 

Why take CC courses if they won't transfer or apply to the specific degree program? I look at CC coursework in a similar manner to AP coursework. For homeschoolers, it demonstrates to colleges that students have/can make the transition to college classroom style education and can handle college coursework. Even if my son ultimately doesn't get credit toward his degree for a lot of the courses he's taking in the CC (and he may not for many of his IT courses), he is still learning critical skills for managing the college environment.

 

The answer to the question of which students *should* do CC and which ones are better served going directly from homeschooling or traditional high school into a 4 year college ends up being quite individual. The student's personality, the depth of their disability(ies), their personal advocacy skills, the quality of disability services at the four year college, and specific program issues all enter into the equation. What I have observed is that students who have mental health conditions that are not truly stable and students who cannot yet independently advocate for themselves are both at high risk for doing poorly when they go directly into a four year college from homeschooling or traditional high school classrooms. I'm following a couple of stories now (IRL and online) where the student did not have the amount of support on campus that *they* needed to be successful. When they went home and regrouped, getting more support in place, they were able to enter CC and are gradually learning the skills needed for college success.

[hsmamainva]

We are there now with my 18yo son. We just took him to the community college yesterday for his placement tests and we want him to start out slowly. We're planning on 2 courses per semester (this summer, fall, spring, next summer) and then moving up from there.

 

He's pursuing an AAS in Information Systems Technology, so it's a full degree, but it's not meant as a transfer degree. Some AA degrees are meant to transfer (in which case your timeframe may be different and you would want to move a bit faster).

 

But he enjoyed the campus and did well on his placement tests so we're very happy!!

 

(btw...he has high functioning autism / Asperger's)

[3kidswild]

Thank you for posting your experiences! My Aspie is in 9th grade and I've already started to worry about college. It's nice to hear feedback from those of you further down the path. Gives me hope that we can get there too.

[Guest LaraMLl]

Does CC here stand for Classical Conversations or Community College?

[Barbara H]

Yes, community college can the ideal choice for a lot of students - lower cost, smaller size, easier transition. I would strongly encourage you to visit the school with him and take the time to explore the support resources available. Too often parents just assume the community college is small so it will be supportive, but the reality is that in college getting support is really up to your student. They have to be prepared to self advocate and that can be really hard for a lot of students. If you go together and investigate the resources (meet with the disabilities services coordinator, go to the writing center, go to the math tutoring center, etc.) you've really increased the chance that your student will take advantage of these services.

 

Also, I would strongly encourage your student to make sure he's getting good advising on his degree. Communities colleges vary widely in the quality of the academic advising they provide. If he's hoping to go on for a four year degree he needs to plan for that from the time he starts the community college. I've had community college students come to me after two years with a pile of totally disconnected credits, or with progress toward a technical degree that might be good for work, but won't transfer well to a four year school. Before he takes any classes find out about articulation agreements and transfer scholarships and make sure he's on the right path.

[1shortmomto4]

My ds has a severe hearing disability and we were quite concerned about how he would transition in the college setting - especially lectures with all the noise around him. The CC disability counselor was nothing short of an answer to prayer. She sat down with my ds and us (Mom & Dad) and worked through what accommodations our ds would need. We had no idea what would be needed since he's never been in a classroom setting but she was wonderful in making suggestions on what to put on his MOA letter. She also suggested that before the classes started he schedule a meeting with each professor and introduce himself and provide his MOA and they could discuss any questions, etc. That was absolutely perfect because the professors asked him questions on what they could do to help him and to be sure my ds knew that if there were any problems to just let them know - this opened the door for communication. I did go with him during these meetings and before I went in the office he'd ask if it were alright for me to attend. (He wanted to be sure he wasn't missing anything being said in the meetings.) I think this allowed the professor to know that this kid was serious about attending school and had a support system in place to help him make this transition. That first year of college is a challenge - no matter how prepared you think you might be.

 

That first semester was a challenge in finding out what worked and what didn't. I had to help him organize paperwork and be his study partner on occasion for his calculus class but as the semester went on he needed me less and less. He has made friends in most of his classes and he has learned a lot - academically and socially, too. He is very easy going and fits in well - he tends to be the one that takes it all in, evaluated the situation and can be cautious before he takes the next step. This semester has been the most challenging because he had to take a remedial English class (we knew this would happen because I couldn't keep him home another year to finish up those skills (all related to the hearing deficits)). This was probably the first time he was around some other students that had some major disabilities - one student had a deaf intrepreter, and he quickly became a leader. He knew he only wanted to do this class once and move on with the rest of his schoolwork but he saw that some kids lacked motivation and lacked support and I think he, in his own way, helped them like I'd been helping him all along.

 

We still have another year/year and a half before we decide where he'll attend next to finish up a BA/BS (he's still unsure about what direction so got to get through that hurdle first). The counselor has been helpful in considering schools that are more disability friendly - the bigger they are the less they are able to accommodate (no matter what the laws say). I know, without a doubt, that if we had sent him away to a school he would have flunked out by November - there is just no support and think these kids need that extra support as they make this big transition. Call it helicoptering, what ever but my dh worked hard to save the money for him to go to school and I've worked hard not only educating him but helping him accept his disability and to believe in himself and in his future dreams - the key is knowing when to come alongside your child and when to take a step back and let them fly but also making sure they know you're there if they need you - no strings attached.

[Second Time Around]

LaraMLl,

 

 

I can't speak for others, but I assumed CC stood for community college wherever I used it. I don't frequent these boards much these days (although I did in the early years of homeschooling my kids) so I just used the abbreviation for community college I've seen used elsewhere.

 

Classical Conversations - that's the relatively 'new' franchise type group, I believe? I've only encountered that once briefly, a few years ago when we were first looking at high school options, but it hadn't really established itself in our area at the time. So it's not something I ever would have thought about.

[Tiramisu]

Yes, community college can the ideal choice for a lot of students - lower cost, smaller size, easier transition. I would strongly encourage you to visit the school with him and take the time to explore the support resources available. Too often parents just assume the community college is small so it will be supportive, but the reality is that in college getting support is really up to your student. They have to be prepared to self advocate and that can be really hard for a lot of students. If you go together and investigate the resources (meet with the disabilities services coordinator, go to the writing center, go to the math tutoring center, etc.) you've really increased the chance that your student will take advantage of these services.

 

Also, I would strongly encourage your student to make sure he's getting good advising on his degree. Communities colleges vary widely in the quality of the academic advising they provide. If he's hoping to go on for a four year degree he needs to plan for that from the time he starts the community college. I've had community college students come to me after two years with a pile of totally disconnected credits, or with progress toward a technical degree that might be good for work, but won't transfer well to a four year school. Before he takes any classes find out about articulation agreements and transfer scholarships and make sure he's on the right path.

 

I agree with everything here. It think it highlights how important it is to know your CC.

 

Our CC is huge, about three times the size of the college dd will attend with classes spread out on multiple campuses with lots of adjuncts coming in only to teach a class or two. Planning well, it's possible to get the assistance a student will need, but it could take extra work. Given this kind of option, it might possibly be better to choose a small college close to home if it has good support services and full-time profs who will get to know your dc.

[Finnella]

I agree with the other posters about knowing your CC. Ours is generally high quality but has gotten quite large with multiple campuses. My older DS is in a ps magnet program that's on the CC campus. He spends mornings in CC classes and afternoons in ps classes. This is pertinent because I've learned lots about how the credits are handled. Our state colleges will take all the credits (he has been taking only classes that are "college track"); some of the best private colleges in our state won't take any of the credits. The private colleges out of state are all over the map with some (esp. top tier schools) refusing to take any of those credits, while a few (Univ. of Chicago) will consider taking some if he passes their placement tests. I think George Washington U. and American U. were also open to taking some credits; Georgetown will not, but they seem disinterested in any student who needs to ask how much the school costs.

 

He and his best friend took foreign language classes this last semester. I'd really hoped to send my younger son (the one I do HS) to CC for foreign language. My older DS is fluent in 2 languages and his friend is fluent in 3; these are kids who learn language fairly easily. Both of them had horrible experiences in this CC department. So even in a generally well regarded CC, there are going to be weak areas. At least I learned it with Random. My younger DS has already had so many bad foreign language experiences that I shudder to think of his having another.

 

One last thought. I think CC classes can still be valuable for getting our kids used to a college like atmosphere and an opportunity for grades from outside the family. Even if my older DS goes to a school that doesn't take his credits, he's nevertheless had a good opportunity to take some college classes on economics and confirm he's still interested in majoring in it.