Credits and foreign language trip

[ariana01]

Hello, I was wondering if you give can give credit for a trip my daughter will be taking. She will be staying in France with a french family for three and a half weeks. Learning the french language and rituals. Can you give credit for this and if so how much? Thanks!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Has she already been taking French? It is hard to learn enough in 3 weeks to come up to what is typically covered in a one year course. But it sounds like it could be an incredible jumpstart or capstone to a full year course.

[ariana01]

Yes she has been taking french for a couple of years now.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This is just me, but I tend to be rather conservative on granting credit. I'd rather have 5-7 credits per year in courses that are clearly substantial and challenging than 10-12 that seem fluffy because there only so much time in the week. My concern is that if I list too many credits, college admissions counselors will look warily at the entire transcript.

 

There are lots of kids who travel and are foreign exchange students. It often helps their language ability and is a great learning experience. That doesn't mean every such experience needs to be considered as academic credit.

 

YMMV.

[regentrude]

If she is taking French, I would count the immersion stay as part of her French language credit. I would mention it specifically in the course description, but not award any separate credit.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If she is taking French, I would count the immersion stay as part of her French language credit. I would mention it specifically in the course description, but not award any separate credit.

 

 

That could be a great way of noting deeper language study.

[susankhan]

I personally think that traveling to a country and having to speak the language alone is more than you can learn from a text book. My daughter went to Italy for one month and learned more Italian by speaking it DAILY than she did taking 3 years of a language from a book. She also traveled to many parts of Italy and learned so much HISTORY as well. Sometimes the idea that learning a language is ONLY from a text book or a professional teacher however I do not agree . This is just my opinion :)

 

Susan Khan

[lmrich]

We are listing our as foreign study abroad under extra curriculars.

[Julie in MN]

I might wait and see what she gets out of it. We had French students here, and the majority never spoke much English if they could avoid it. However, if your dd ends up taking leaps forward in her abilities, I'd think language credit was a definite option.

 

There is a dual-credit (college credit) in our area called Intercultural Studies. Some semesters a trip is definitely part of the credit. Students also have to create and give a presentation, do some research in advance, etc. Here is the program it is through (not the whole major, but just one intro course).

http://www.nwc.edu/w...ultural-studies

 

I also took quite a few cross-cultural courses when I was at the U of M, so that can be a credit at a secular college, as well. I didn't travel, but was given credit for internships in various settings.

 

So that's another option.

Julie

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I personally think that traveling to a country and having to speak the language alone is more than you can learn from a text book. My daughter went to Italy for one month and learned more Italian by speaking it DAILY than she did taking 3 years of a language from a book. She also traveled to many parts of Italy and learned so much HISTORY as well. Sometimes the idea that learning a language is ONLY from a text book or a professional teacher however I do not agree . This is just my opinion :)

 

Susan Khan

 

I do agree with this. I went to Germany for 10 weeks after three years of high school German. I came back with a significant boost to my German ability, since few of my family members could speak English.

 

The exchange student who lived with the family on the neighboring farm had not studied any German and learned little.

 

So much depends on the situation and the motivation of the student. I'm not advocating that a language is only or even best learned from a formal instructional setting. But I've been around too many people who lived for significant periods of time overseas with minimal language acquisition to think that presence alone brings language skills.

[regentrude]

But I've been around too many people who lived for significant periods of time overseas with minimal language acquisition to think that presence alone brings language skills.

 

This.

[susankhan]

 

I do agree with this. I went to Germany for 10 weeks after three years of high school German. I came back with a significant boost to my German ability, since few of my family members could speak English.

 

The exchange student who lived with the family on the neighboring farm had not studied any German and learned little.

 

So much depends on the situation and the motivation of the student. I'm not advocating that a language is only or even best learned from a formal instructional setting. But I've been around too many people who lived for significant periods of time overseas with minimal language acquisition to think that presence alone brings language skills.

 

 

I agree it does depend upon the student. My daughter WANTED to learn Italian and put all the effort in learning it while in Italy.

[PeterPan]

 

I do agree with this. I went to Germany for 10 weeks after three years of high school German. I came back with a significant boost to my German ability, since few of my family members could speak English.

 

The exchange student who lived with the family on the neighboring farm had not studied any German and learned little.

 

So much depends on the situation and the motivation of the student. I'm not advocating that a language is only or even best learned from a formal instructional setting. But I've been around too many people who lived for significant periods of time overseas with minimal language acquisition to think that presence alone brings language skills.

 

This is really interesting. I went to a Pudewa talk on grammar at the convention last week where he suggested everyone do latin in high school, hang the modern language, and bank on learning it by immersion. Of course people who have STUDIED modern languages know some can be learned via immersion and some aren't learned so well that way. Russian, anything where you get into cases, more complex verb structures, etc., will be really hard to learn via immersion (alone). They have to go back and get the grammar.

 

As far as the op, you might suggest she keep a daily diary in the target language while she's there. It will let you see the improvement in her skills and push her to learn to spell the new words she's hearing. Also give her a small notebook to carry around (you know, the little dime store memo books) to jot down new vocabulary she hears. That way she can look up things later.

[Joan in GE]

While I agree that living in a real immersion situation can really boost the level of acquisition, 3 1/2 weeks doesn't seem very long.

 

Questions are - what did you require for your other language credits? where will your dd apply?

 

I would do as others have done, count it as part of a credit already given or to be given with other work. My dd has lots of immersion situations. I count the hours that she does but I do not give her a French credit based on hours but on testing (she's tested at the local school and will also do the AP this year).

 

For credits I've given, the immersion hours were part of what I described for exposure in the course description but I didn't give credit per se for it as there is also some grammar, vocabulary, literary analysis, ability to give presentations, etc...(it was just part of the package).

 

You could give some of the exams for different levels of acquisition and see if it is equivalent to (not sure of her level so just postulating) II, III, or IV? (A while ago there was at least one or more threads about testing in foreign languages but I think the links tended to be for the European levels, though can't remember clearly)

 

ETA - I wasn't thinking of testing just for this experience alone but in relation to all that your dd is learning - as a credit should have components of interpretation and expression...The directions for the AP syllabus can give you ideas of aspects to work on for developing credits for foreign languages and the European guidelines can also give lots of ideas...AP roughly breaks interpretation into understanding written and spoken communications and expression into being able to express oneself orally and in writing. The CB doesn't hold perfect grammar as a goal any more - it's much more about cultural understanding...

 

In addition - immersion settings have very different dynamics depending on the person and the people around them....People who are more shy tend to take longer to be able to express themselves...If the family setting is warm and supportive and the people are natural teachers, it might go really well...

 

Joan

[PeterPan]

If you give her credit, you'd call it a conversation credit, require the extra work I described, and label it 1/2.

[Nan in Mass]

I've done short (as in several weeks) immersion things and so have my children. If she is in an immersion situation where she has to USE her French, rather than reading and taking long walks by herself, letting the family dinner time conversation wash over her, and using sign language occasionally, the three and a half weeks will be really good for her. I would hesitate to use testing to assess whether she learned enough for some credit because of my own immersion experiences. They improved my French greatly but not necessarily in a way that would show up when tested. I did learn a little vocabulary but it wasn't necessarily common vocabulary. Mostly, what happened was that my French solidified. My speaking sped up and became easier. Some of the verb endings began to come naturally without my having to think about it. I got better at using the right preposition or conjunction rather than using the direct translation from English. I learned some common conversational phrases, making it easier for me to participate in conversations even though I couldn't really contribute. The biggest change was in how much I could understand when people were speaking to me. My listening sped up so that if people spoke slowly, directly to me, I could get the gist of what they were saying, even if I didn't understand every word. That was miles better than only being able to understand if I saw it in writing. I would expect that in three and a half weeks, these are the sorts of improvements you will see, not drastic improvements in vocabulary, spelling, and grammatical correctness. In fact, that last is likely to go backwards, since your daughter will have to communicate whether she can figure out the correct grammar or not. Those gains are wonderful, nothing to be sneered at, but I doubt they would really show on a before and afterwards test.

 

If she were going for about twice that amount of time, I would probably give her half a credit and call it French Immersion on her transcript. For that amount of time, I think I would either put it under the extra credit section, or I would relabel whatever French she did this year (say, three) and call it French 3 with Immersion or French 3/Immersion. Either that, or I would add to the immersion experience and give her half a credit. I would require that she read some books and do book reports (in French) (Le Petit Prince and Le Petit Nicole, if she hasn't read them before, might be about right), keep a journal, in French, while she is there, and try to find a way for her to skype weekly in French for a few months afterwards. As she read the books, I would require her to write a summary of each chapter and keep a vocabulary list of words she had to look up in the dictionary. Basically, I would try to find a way to extend those three and a half weeks into a something that lasted a semester. This would be a good idea just from the point of view of taking full advantage of the immersion experience. If she comes back and reads French every day for a certain amount of time and has to converse every week, she will continue to improve rather than losing what gains she has made. The reading might even build her vocabulary better than the immersion experience.

 

No matter what you decide to do, there are things you can do that will make her immersion experience work better. One is to make sure she understands that the goal is to have as many conversations each day as possible. Count up how many you have at home, in English. If you are like our family, you will discover that it can be amazingly few. She can try to find young children to talk to, to play games with, to tell her stories. They have more time than busy adults. She can volunteer to help people do whatever they are doing. Tell her to follow them around asking questions. The idea is to start talking when you wake up and not stop until you go to sleep. If she brings a book, in French, with her, it will help increase the amount of French she is getting while still giving her a break from being with strangers. If she reads a book before she goes, she will increase her vocabulary and get herself working in French. She can also listen to as much French as possible before she goes, setting movies to French with subtitles, watching youtube videos about how to do something that interests her, doing Brain Pop in French (think I got the name right), listening to French online radio, learning songs, etc. I agree with the previous posters who said that how much one improves depends on the person. You can make suggestions, though, and increase the chances that she will be one of the ones who benefits greatly.

 

Just some ideas,

Nan

[Candid]

This is just me, but I tend to be rather conservative on granting credit. I'd rather have 5-7 credits per year in courses that are clearly substantial and challenging than 10-12 that seem fluffy because there only so much time in the week. My concern is that if I list too many credits, college admissions counselors will look warily at the entire transcript.

 

There are lots of kids who travel and are foreign exchange students. It often helps their language ability and is a great learning experience. That doesn't mean every such experience needs to be considered as academic credit.

 

YMMV.

If she is taking French, I would count the immersion stay as part of her French language credit. I would mention it specifically in the course description, but not award any separate credit.

 

:iagree:

 

There is a real danger that you lower the value of your whole transcript by including too much fluff. My general inclination with this and other summer sort of events is to put them as extra curricular like a brick and mortar student would. Only award credit if the program arranging things does so automatically.