Am I being too hard, or do I need to try a different approach?

[Forgiven]

My 4th-grade dd is working on angles and drawing different shapes. When I ask her questions about angles (ie: how many degrees in a triangle, difference between obtuse and acute angles/triangles, etc) she gets them correct, but when she has to actually draw a shape, she doesn't take the time to measure out any angles, and her lines aren't straight. I look over her math as soon as it's finished and then have her redo. It comes back redone, but still not good. Some will be correct while others, though definitely erased and redone, are still crooked with wrong degrees in the angles.

 

I've even asked her, "Does this look like a square to you?", and she answers, "no." I want to shake her and say, "Then why did you give this to me and tell me you're done?"

 

She's on her third redo of the day. Again, she understands the concepts, it's just that she's too lazy to take the time to do the work correctly, which, of course, is causing her more time. It's been like this since we started the geometry portion of her math work a few weeks ago. Her math is taking hours each day now, and all because she's too lazy to take the time to do it correctly the first time.

 

I'm not sure if maybe I should take a different approach, or if I'm being too strict and anal about it.

 

Thoughts? Advice? Recommendations for a great glass of wine?

[Ellie]

Here's a glass of wine. :-)

 

I'm not sure you need a different approach, but you might want to put a limit on how much time you'll allow her to spend on math. After an hour, put it away, and start the next day where you left off.

 

I also think you might not want to refer to her as "lazy." It could be that she is, but if she's been doing the same thing for a few weeks, there could be other things going on in her head.

 

Honestly, I can't get worked up over geometry for a 9yo.

[mom2bee]

Do you have any of those duplo or lego blocks? I would let her trace something that is clearly a square. (Build a square out of legos or if you have any duplo then use those.)

 

Maybe you want to limit the number of problems she's expected to do and give her a time frame:

15 minutes to do 5 high quality geometric shapes and that is it. If she gets the wrong, have her redo them again a little later but don't be so distressed.

 

Tell her to not turn in sloppy work, but I'd also limit the amount of shapes she has to do each day. It could be a stamina thing...

:grouphug: .

[Kuovonne]

Is this the geometry in Math Mammoth 4? My DD had a horrible time with the drawing and measuring. I gave up. When we got to the stuff with a compass I flatly refused to let her use the compass. She knows the concepts and can recognize the shapes; she just cannot think through all the steps to draw them. When I discovered that I had to teach her how to draw a straight line with a ruler, I knew that the drawing was too much for her. Since my current goal is understanding rather than drafting skills, I moved on.

[Forgiven]

mom2bee: I think you're right about the stamina thing. Maybe if I did ask for fewer problems with higher quality it would work. I'm going to try that tomorrow. Thanks!

 

Kuovonne: Yes, it's MM4B. I'm glad I'm not the ony one with a kid who isn't doing well at drawing of the shapes and angles in MM4B. I haven't looked ahead in her math yet, but using a compass! Ugh. Yeah, I may have to be leanient on that one too. She actually plays with her compass a lot, but will have the pencil too far in, so it doesn't make an accurate sized circle, ec. LOL Normally, math comes naturally to her. She's always been a wiz at it, so it just frustrates me with this geometry. I was beginning to think she got so used to things coming so easily that she didn't have to give it her all to do.

 

Which brings me to your comments, Ellie. You've made me look inside myself on the lazy comment. I do believe she is just doing whatever to get by, but I should never call her that. I need to apologize to all of you, and to her. I just know that she can do better. I've seen her do better. I think that doing what Mom2bee said will work--less problems, higher quality work. Oh, and thanks for that glass of wine. I needed it. ;)

 

Thanks, ladies!

[Ellie]

Kuovonne: Yes, it's MM4B. I'm glad I'm not the ony one with a kid who isn't doing well at drawing of the shapes and angles in MM4B. I haven't looked ahead in her math yet, but using a compass! Ugh. Yeah, I may have to be leanient on that one too. She actually plays with her compass a lot, but will have the pencil too far in, so it doesn't make an accurate sized circle, ec. LOL Normally, math comes naturally to her. She's always been a wiz at it, so it just frustrates me with this geometry. I was beginning to think she got so used to things coming so easily that she didn't have to give it her all to do.

 

Don't you think children can be good at math and have difficulty drawing angles and whatnot when they are just 9yo? :-)

 

Which brings me to your comments, Ellie. You've made me look inside myself on the lazy comment. I do believe she is just doing whatever to get by, but I should never call her that. I need to apologize to all of you, and to her. I just know that she can do better. I've seen her do better. I think that doing what Mom2bee said will work--less problems, higher quality work. Oh, and thanks for that glass of wine. I needed it. ;)

 

 

I was accused of being lazy, more than once. That's why I'm so sensitive to it. :-)

 

Maybe she's doing as little as possible because she just hates geometry. Maybe she's doing as little as possible because she's just 9 and having to do all those things is just not in her brain yet. Could be any number of reasons. Again, I don't think that having to do compass and protractors at 9 is just not all that important.

[Laura Corin]

How are her fine motors skills and how is her spatial perception? Calvin had a very hard time with the activities you mention: he understood in the abstract but could neither 'see' what he should be producing nor come out with accurate representations. We just took it very slowly and patiently, and tried not to make it a burden.

 

Laura

[wapiti]

My kids had a hard time drawing angles and measuring and such - they have fine motor issues - and yes, in MM 4B. I would not be looking for much there. If she understands the concepts, I would simply move on. There is plenty more geometry in 5B (and even there, I assign only a portion of the problems, nowhere near all!!).

[weederberries]

Drawing triangles with specific angles and leg lengths is difficult. I'd try tracing, measuring actual items or something less taxing on the fine motor skills.

[Paige]

I had the same complaint with my DS with the angles in MM4. IMO, he was just plain sloppy and there was absolutely no reason he couldn't turn in a better effort. In his opinion, it didn't matter and I was being nitpicky. I can see that he was not creating buildings which would collapse due to sloppy angle drawing, but I wanted him to develop the habit of accuracy. So- I don't think you are being too hard on her! I think that telling her to do it and walking away and expecting it to happen may not be the way to get things done happily, however. If I were to do it again, I'd sit next to DS and watch him make the angles. I would make sure he was using the correct tools and I would help him improve his technique. One thing I noticed when I actually did sit with DS was that he needed to learn that if he put the straight edge on the line, then his pencil mark would be past that line and the angle would be off. I had to show him to move the edge back so that he had room to write on the angle he needed. I think we may expect kids to intuitively know how to do things that are so simple to us and so we may not know the directions they need unless we sit and watch them struggle.

[TarynB]

Agreeing with Ellie and other PPs. Also, my DS struggled with the geometry output in MM4 (i.e., sloppy), but by the time we re-visited geometry in MM5, his output was MUCH better. More maturity and improved fine motor skills were the biggest things, I think. So don't stress too much! :coolgleamA:

[TranquilMind]

Here's a glass of wine. :-)

 

I'm not sure you need a different approach, but you might want to put a limit on how much time you'll allow her to spend on math. After an hour, put it away, and start the next day where you left off.

 

I also think you might not want to refer to her as "lazy." It could be that she is, but if she's been doing the same thing for a few weeks, there could be other things going on in her head.

 

Honestly, I can't get worked up over geometry for a 9yo.

 

 

Sorry, OP. I'm with Ellie on this, and we both have older kids (I think hers are grown).

 

Just relax. Start again...it will come to her.

[Marylou]

I need to apologize to all of you, and to her. I just know that she can do better. I've seen her do better. I think that doing what Mom2bee said will work--less problems, higher quality work. Oh, and thanks for that glass of wine. I needed it. ;)

 

Thanks, ladies!

 

 

You're Forgiven :tongue_smilie:

[Tanikit]

If you are using protractors or compasses then go for BIG ones - they are a lot easier to use than the tiny ones normally sold in math sets. And yes, you do really have to teach them how to use these instruments before setting them out on an assignment - starting with straight lines and measuring before going on to angles and finally circles. Fewer problems are always good too :)

[Haiku]

My dd does very well in math and uses MM. She has had trouble with the drawing parts in MM4 and 5. I think they are difficult. I would cut your dd some slack.

 

Tara

[Forgiven]

Thank you, everyone. I feel so much better and have definitely cut her slack. She was supposed to redo everything again this evening for homework, but I told her she was free--no extra work. I do sit with her, as in I'm right next to her, but I work with my K'er at the same time that she does her math, so it's hard to watch her. Tomorrow we will do fewer problems and I'm going to sit down with her beforehand and show her how I would do it. I do assume that she knows what to do because she is my "easy" one. The one that learning comes naturally too. I need to give her more time from me and I also need to realize that it's okay if it's not perfect at this age. She does understand the concepts and that is what matters.

 

I really appreciate all the feedback and support. You all have talked me down from a ledge of sorts. Thanks!

[boscopup]

I didn't worry too much about the drawing part when we did geometry at that level. My son is 8, and his fine motor skills just aren't there to hold the thing perfectly still while drawing a line at the correct angle. That is HARD for him. It truly is. He understands the geometry fully and LOVES geometry, but when his normal drawings are still stick figures much of the time, I can't really expect high school level angle drawing. ;) I figure by time we get to high school level geometry, he'll probably have the fine motor skills to match. In the meantime, I sit with him and teach him each little step, helping him place his hands in the proper spot and figure out what he needs to do. It is a lot more complex when you're 9 than when you're an adult. ;)

 

You said she'll redo it 3 times or so? I don't think that's being lazy. Who wants to keep erasing and redoing? That really sounds like a child that physically isn't able to do it - either doesn't know how or doesn't have the motor skills yet. Yes, she'll need to practice it, but sending her off on her own won't help. Watch her and see where she's going wrong, and help her out.

 

And when you get to the compass section, don't expect anything near perfection there either. :lol: My son couldn't use a compass to save his life. I even have a *good* one (the cheap ones in the store are near impossible to make a circle even with good fine motor skills and plenty of experience). Again, he's 8. I just don't expect good compass usage yet. When he's 12, maybe he'll be more ready for it physically.