Moving too fast for her own good

[momma2three]

My 5yo seems to understand math concepts very quickly, and enjoys doing math workbooks/apps/websites. But she's only 5, so she whizzes through something, gets to the next thing, and it's something that she's not developmentally ready for. And then suddenly she hates math and she's not good at it, according to her.

 

We had that problem with Math Mammoth. She did all of book 1A in about 2 months. But the last chapter had place value to 3 digits, and she just couldn't grasp it. Which I think is totally developmentally normal for a 4/5 year old (as she was then: this was last summer). She was so excited about being so close to the end of the book (that chapter is pretty short) that I felt bad putting it away unfinished hand-held her way through it, but the damage was done. In retrospect, I should have put it away. But at the time it seemed like the right choice to be able to finish it and celebrate her accomplishment. But I admit I was wrong.

 

The same thing happened with Dreambox Learning. She was obsessed, and did it every evening while I put the younger two to bed. After maybe 2 months, she got to the 2nd or 3rd grade level of most of the things, and it suddenly got much too hard for her. If you've never seen it, it's a web program that's designed to move at the child's speed, and things are presented as something kids should be able to do, with no grade levels attached or anything. I had to show her the whole "parent portal" where it said that she was doing 3rd grade math to make her feel better, and even so she's still bummed at how hard DreamBox is.

 

 

Has anyone else faced this sort of thing? I don't know if this is the right board, but it is sort of an accelerated learner question. She's such an amazing kid, and so bright and curious about everything. I think that people assume I push her, but really she /begs/ for more workbooks or educational computer stuff or math lessons. And my younger two are much more "high needs" (to put it politely), so it is just so easy to hand her a workbook and tell her to go at it while I deal with them.

 

How do I walk the fine line between letting her work to her level, but not letting her go beyond and face disappointment?

[dbmamaz]

I often took 'living math' breaks, with library books or murderous maths or whatever, and then came back with a different curriculum, and then another living math break, and then a different curriculum . .. occasionally practice worksheets for things that he's ready to actually DO . . .

[momma2three]

I probably need to be better at that. We've done the first LOF, and I was saving the second to do in a few weeks. We went through the first one so quickly, I'm trying to pace them out a bit, doing 2-3 per year.

 

We are doing MEP now, too. When we finish Year 1 of that, I figured we'd try the second Math Mammoth book.

[Greenmama2]

I wouldn't bother trying to pace LoF out so much. My six year old has just started D after starting A only six ish weeks ago. Some chapters are more intense than others & I think once she gets closer to her actual level she will slow down. I imagine the same will happen for your DD. I heartily reccomend living maths too. Do you have the Sir Cumference or the Penrose books?

[momma2three]

I don't have the Sir Cumference books, but I've seen them recommended a lot here! So I'll definitely check them out. Are they for slightly older kids, though?

[Greenmama2]

There are different topics. The place value one is very approachable & definitely helped my DD grasp the concept.

[EKS]

When you say you held her hand through that last section of MM 1A, what do you mean exactly? If she flew through the rest of the book at 2-3 times the intended speed, it's possible that she finally had gotten to a place that was appropriately challenging and that she needed a teacher for. I always thought that if my children didn't need to be taught to some extent, then their placement was too low.

[momma2three]

When you say you held her hand through that last section of MM 1A, what do you mean exactly? If she flew through the rest of the book at 2-3 times the intended speed, it's possible that she finally had gotten to a place that was appropriately challenging and that she needed a teacher for. I always thought that if my children didn't need to be taught to some extent, then their placement was too low.

 

 

I tried to teach it, and we used a few different exercises and games that I found online, but she just didn't understand the idea behind it. She could parrot back "256 is 2 hundreds," but she didn't really understand what that meant, which was obvious when it was time to do the problems. I think that place value is actually one of those "developmental" things that you can't really rush, and she was technically working 2 years above grade level at the time (since it's a first grade program, and it was the summer before kindergarten, and she's a young kindergartener anyway as she has a summer birthday.)

[a27mom]

My summer bday 5 y/o is similar. Loves math. ahead with curriculum but when we hit a hard spot she got really frustrated. I decided to stop scheduled type curriculum altogether for now. (She is well past k math anyway). We have been playing: c-rods, computer games, math apps, cheap workbooks. Some are "easy" for her, but she enjoys them and benefits from the reinforcement of math facts etc... We also do a lot of real life math: fractions in cooking, math from nutrition labels, counting money and so on.

[dbmamaz]

actually, there is a Sir Cumference book on place value - he has armies organized in groups of tens and hundreds iir, so he can count them more easily.

[serendipitous journey]

I tended to pause for however long was necessary to teach the new concept, reviewing old concepts often enough that they weren't forgotten (and also drilling regularly). Now though I'm just slowing down ... the latest hitch is in AoPS PreA with a 7.5 yo, and I'm retreating to SM6A for a while.

 

I happen to like MUS for place value (Alpha), and have found the Kitchen Table books to help in these situations.

 

ETA: If she needs more math, and you have your hands full, have you considered running 2 curricula? Say, Singapore and Galore Park (or MM) -- don't use MEP for this, it is time-intensive and you have high-needs littles. If you are "bad at" the living math, just buy some strategy games and use those to keep things interesting: a learner's version of chess, for instance, or Rush Hour or anything like that. If you keep a couple of these on hand to pull out during doldrums it may help. Or slow her down by making 1 or 2 days each week a game day and don't do her curriculum that day.

 

For the two curricula, it is simple to alternate days. If she's a bit unchallenged in one, just assign only 1/2 the problems; she can probably take it b/c the other program will probably be more challenging at that time. Actually we usually only assign 1/2 the problems anyhow ...

 

ETA #2: during our 5yo-math-summer challenge, we took to doing just 10 or so minutes of the problem math a day. I made fresh orange juice and we each got a bit of chocolate and sat down to work for 10 minutes, then called it good; we did fact drills at a different time. Eventually we got the concepts down and moved on.

[serendipitous journey]

I don't have the Sir Cumference books, but I've seen them recommended a lot here! So I'll definitely check them out. Are they for slightly older kids, though?

 

 

Just saw this -- they are, but my tot likes them pretty well :). The math is over his head for sure, though. We've used them while A. was 6 & 7.

[Arcadia]

I don't have the Sir Cumference books, but I've seen them recommended a lot here! So I'll definitely check them out. Are they for slightly older kids, though?

 

The Crowell Young Math books is another series that you might want to see if your library have. These are out of print. Link to list of books http://www.valerieslivinglibrary.com/math.htm

[Tranquility7]

ETA: If she needs more math, and you have your hands full, have you considered running 2 curricula?

 

This is what I do with DS. Your DD doesn't have to always be making "forward" progress in her math - she can instead be deepening her understanding of what she already knows by having similar concepts presented in different ways (through different currics), and just overall reinforcement of logical thinking skills.

 

With your DD, how about adding in Singapore's Challenging Word Problems and/or Intensive Practice books for the appropriate level? Also maybe LOF, or Beast Academy (BA might be too hard right now, but it depends on your DD).

 

You could also add in some logical thinking puzzles. Ds has really enjoyed Balance Benders and Mind Benders.

 

You might also add in chess. I got Dinosaur Chess for DS last year - not only does he love it, but he has already become quite a formidable opponent!

[freerange]

How do I walk the fine line between letting her work to her level, but not letting her go beyond and face disappointment?

 

I don't. I think one of the most important things I'll help my kids to learn is how to square up to something they can't do. It will happen eventually, and if they hit that stage later on it can be a HUGE blow to their confidence.

 

I try to set the line so they're regularly, though not all the time, coming up against stuff they need to chew over for a while. Sure, sometimes we put things to one side for a bit & come back to them in a week or two. This year my youngest has used AOPS, Primary Math (Singapore), MEP, Elmwood Press & Zaccaro. If you're routinely using more than one resource it's no big deal to switch to using something else when you hit a sticky patch & sometimes they just need a little break of not directly thinking about it for it to percolate through & make sense.

 

And in general terms with an advanced mathsy kids it's often a good idea to go wide. Think of maths like a pyramid - the wider the foundation the higher the pyramid can go & still be stable. So I'm agreeing with Glory - add in as much extra stuff as you can cope with -it all helps build that firm foundation.

[jennynd]

It seems we are in similar boat. My younger just turned 5 about a month or so ago. She is stubborn and determined. My DD too will beg to do work, I actually caught her the other day AGAIN made her own worksheet on the back of a receipt. so I totally understand where you coming from.

Agree with the PP that "get frustrated" is something a gifted children need to learn. When my Older DS read a book in my Pediatrician office when we were there for 2 years old check up, that is what my Pediatrician suggested. Go find something you know this child will not succeed!! Sports or music.. Anything. And that is what we ddi for him.. His soccer team stinks. loss practically every game but boy!! I love it!!

As far as place value, we had those 100 flat/1000 block thing that i thought is very useful. It is visual and she can put her hands on it. You can give her the number and ask her to put the blocks together to represent the value. If she does not understand the place value, I will not move her forward until she does. 2A in SM starts 3 digit add/sub.. If she doesn't have the place value, the operation will be meaningless to her

[Tanikit]

I am not sure it is a developmental thing - but more likely a teaching issue. Do you remember how you taught your daughter tens and units/ones - did you teach it to her at all or did she just seem to know it? If you did teach it to her then use a similar method to teach hundreds. I have also used manipulatives with my DD (hundred blocks are great)

 

I would probably give her lots of teaching time - hard I know when you have two smaller ones (what I do with my youngest is engage her first and do something with her before turning to the older) and deal with concepts that are hard for her, but teaching them rather than expecting her to perform - so introduce the conept and explain it then don't ask her anything. The next day do the same thing, again not questioning her or asking her to solve anything. You can keep doing this til she shows she can do it herself or when you feel she should know it and seems perhaps a little bored with your explanation then start asking her to show you what she knows. These "lessons" should be very short and repeated a lot. Dreambox is a little more difficult as you can't do it with her else she'll progress without knowing how to do it if you do it for her - maybe copy down the types of sums she sticks with and practice those another way before letting her back at the game.

[Incognito]

I don't think your problem is that she is going too fast in math. Any speed is fine (I suppose it could be "too slow", but that's a totally different topic).

 

I think if you approach learning more as exploration and less as box checking/finish the book you'll find whatever pace she is at to be just fine. If things get too hard, you can talk through it like you did, and she can feel like she finished the book (like she did), but you don't need to expect mastery. And if you want to drop it and do something else, do.

 

I try to model to my kids that we are all, always learning. I don't know or understand everything, and neither do they. We're okay with that.

 

We do things that are over their heads all the time. They don't expect to get everything. We enjoy a lot of living math books (libraries tend to have stuff like that - I just discovered Theoni Pappas - yippee!). Sir Cumference is fun. Greg Tang has lots of cute books. We enjoy Life of Fred. We read it together and my oldest writes out the answers to the problems. They both love the story, and they pick up on surprising understandings of math from it (but they don't get some of it too, and that is fine).

 

HTH

 

ETA: I know this could vary by kid, but I do want to say that about place value, I wonder if your DD understands 10's and 1's as well as you think she does, if she is having problems with 100's. It's the same concept. Maybe keep reading in Life of Fred and see if that clears it up for her.

[EKS]

I know this could vary by kid, but I do want to say that about place value, I wonder if your DD understands 10's and 1's as well as you think she does, if she is having problems with 100's. It's the same concept.

 

 

I had the same thought.