MFW CtG and above Should we leave HOD. What do you think of this?

[joyfulhomeschooler]

How much of this can be done by the child him/herself? I have two more kids coming up the line and am tempted to go back to MFW (we've done 1st, adv, and ECC). We are using HOD Bigger right now. The only thing that is stopping me is that we really want to do Preparing with HOD and the fact that HOD gets so much more independent in CtC. So I would be able to focus on my two little ones coming up better.

[momto5blessings]

With HOD the child is able to do quite a bit independantly in CTC. Each level increases that independance even more. If you like HOD you certainly could be able to stay with them.

 

I've never used MFW, so I can't speak to that.

HTH

Pamela

[abrightmom]

Well, how is HOD working for you now? Do you love it? Does it fit? How are your kids doing being combined in Bigger? Your DD7 will be 8 in Preparing and 9 in CTC. CTC is reputed to be a big jump in length of school day and overall challenge. Are you okay with your DD9 using that guide at that point and being independent in history and science? CTC really freaks me out because I ready of SO MANY students using at the oldest or in the extension range. Very rarely do I read of a 9yo using CTC.....

 

Spend gobs of time with the CTC samples. Read everything you can get your hands on sample wise. There is a lot there to consider. I tend to under estimate how much time something takes which leads to overdoing it.

 

I'm dealing with this very issue right now. I understand what you are going through. Although, I'm pretty sure MFW is off the table for us...

[cbollin]

I found that when I needed my oldest to work more independently in her MFW stuff.. it was in language arts and math, and she got really good at doing science experiments on her own. I strongly preferred to read the history and Bible with (or to) her so I could teach it. She did book basket on her own. I needed to spend time with my middle and youngest (especially with their special needs). some stuff in CTG and above oldest did more on her own. this year I'm finding middle gal does a lot of her MFW stuff on her own so I can do my paid job (exercise instructor) and still try to work with youngest.

 

You can modify most things.

 

-crystal

[Monarch Room]

Of course you know I (selfishly) want you to stay with HOD, so we can talk and talk about it. You are the one who knows what's best for your family, and it sounds like you still love MFW. There is still always the option of SCM :) There are just too many good choices. How's a girl to stay loyal to one?

[Donna A.]

I found that when I needed my oldest to work more independently in her MFW stuff.. it was in language arts and math, and she got really good at doing science experiments on her own. I strongly preferred to read the history and Bible with (or to) her so I could teach it. She did book basket on her own. I needed to spend time with my middle and youngest (especially with their special needs). some stuff in CTG and above oldest did more on her own. this year I'm finding middle gal does a lot of her MFW stuff on her own so I can do my paid job (exercise instructor) and still try to work with youngest.

 

You can modify most things.

 

-crystal

 

:iagree: Quite honestly, I don't want my elementary children doing Bible and history independently, without either dh or me involved. (I'm not talking about their individual personal devotional time. Of course they do that alone after a certain age/maturity point. I'm talking about the "study" side of it.) I even still talk to my high schoolers quite a bit about what they're learning, even though they're working independently during "school hours". But they're more mature and able to "sift" on their own now than when they were in elementary, too.

 

There are plenty of other areas in which to have a student working independently, as Crystal mentioned. Math, LA, certain electives, chores, working with younger siblings on something..... even science to some extent. And each year they become more and more independent. One year they might jump ahead in their grammar and writing skills, and the next year it might be math. Also, I have often used the family read-aloud time as an opportunity for everyone who can read to practice. This kills two (or three) birds with one stone, so to speak, rather than me trying to get to each individual child throughout the day for every single subject. (Thinking back to when they were all elementary ages here.)

 

It just has never worked here for me to "box" them in to a certain grade level in virtually every subject. I much prefer to have multiple books and resources at different levels, so that each one can get the most out of the book(s) that apply to them.... yes, even while we're all working together. :)

[twoxcell]

Well, do you and the kids enjoy HOD for the most part? Is it working for your family? If so I would say why don't you just stick with it. I'd hate for you to miss Preparing because it is such a wonderful guide. I have not personally used MFW, although I have looked at it many times. HOD is working very well for us and I love the book choices, so at this point I have no plans to change.

[Juliegmom]

If you really want to do Preparing then why not stick with it one more year before starting the 4-year cycle with MFW? I'm considering placing my dd in Preparing when she is in 4th grade. This would also allow us to avoid repeating ECC in grade 8. I know a lot of people love repeating it, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. We will start ECC in the fall so I have a while to think about it. I'm loving MFW and don't know if I will be able pull myself away to try Preparing. I may just be all talk! :) I can see why you are torn between the two.

[Donna A.]

If you really want to do Preparing then why not stick with it one more year before starting the 4-year cycle with MFW? I'm considering placing my dd in Preparing when she is in 4th grade. This would also allow us to avoid repeating ECC in grade 8. I know a lot of people love repeating it, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. We will start ECC in the fall so I have a while to think about it. I'm loving MFW and don't know if I will be able pull myself away to try Preparing. I may just be all talk! :) I can see why you are torn between the two.

 

Perhaps you could read the books from Preparing as "Book Basket" while doing ECC? It's an idea, anyway.... That way, the child would be getting a "world history overview" via living books while doing world geography and missions via ECC.

 

And then if there's some other component(s) from Preparing that you really want to do, such as Art or whatever, you could use those as your "elective" subjects on the grid in ECC.

[Juliegmom]

Donna, I always appreciate the guidance and wisdom you've given to me to directly or to others using or comtemplating using MFW. I'm hoping that MFW will work for us for years to come and am looking forward to ECC next year. Still not sure that I would want to repeat ECC again, but that is years ahead of me. One day, or year, at a time. :) Thank you!!!

[Donna A.]

Donna, I always appreciate the guidance and wisdom you've given to me to directly or to others using or comtemplating using MFW. I'm hoping that MFW will work for us for years to come and am looking forward to ECC next year. Still not sure that I would want to repeat ECC again, but that is years ahead of me. One day, or year, at a time. :) Thank you!!!

 

 

Oh, I hope my last post didn't sound like I was saying you *should* repeat ECC again! I wasn't thinking of that at all. I was only thinking of your current dilemma about whether (or when) to do ECC and/or Preparing, and was offering a way to possibly solve the dilemma. You could even potentially spread it out over two years (using ECC with parts of Preparing).... that way you wouldn't have to "leave" MFW in order to do "only" Preparing for a year, and it would alleviate the empty "gap" year you'd have otherwise.

 

Just tossing some ideas out there. Have fun deciding! :)

[blessedmom3]

Why do you want to switch to MFW? Are you concerned that you wouldn't be able to combine with HOD? For us this is a plus. I have tried MFW before and although I like the idea of combining, it just didn't work,even if my dc are relatively close in age. I have four dc (9yo in preparing,7 and 6 yo in Beyond and a 3 yo in LHTH) and combining them would be a disaster since they are at different skills level. In preparing,my 9 yo is able to work independently most of the boxes with very little help from me,which allows me to work with the little ones. He writes decent narrations with Carrie's prompts.The Bible in preparing is very short so we add a family devotional at night (dad reads it).We also add apologia and Latin since Preparing is so efficient and allows us time for exras. The areas where I'm more involved are exactly the opposites as some pp mentioned : LA( rod&Staff English) and math ( Singapore). I make sure my ds understands grammar ( especially since English is my 3rd language!) and we do the textbook and CWP together before I let him dig in the workbook by himself. In contrast, he does read his Preparing books by himself and follows the instructions in the guide. He does an incredible job! Here are some samples of his work.

http://pinterest.com/dandelion4/heart-of-dakota-preparing-hearts-for-his-glory/

 

 

I think HOD guides from Preparing&up are brilliantly designed so that our ds learn how to work independently and be responsible. I see that in my ds and it is a great skill to prepare him for college and/or work.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Well, how is HOD working for you now? Do you love it? Does it fit? How are your kids doing being combined in Bigger? Your DD7 will be 8 in Preparing and 9 in CTC. CTC is reputed to be a big jump in length of school day and overall challenge. Are you okay with your DD9 using that guide at that point and being independent in history and science? CTC really freaks me out because I ready of SO MANY students using at the oldest or in the extension range. Very rarely do I read of a 9yo using CTC.....

 

Spend gobs of time with the CTC samples. Read everything you can get your hands on sample wise. There is a lot there to consider. I tend to under estimate how much time something takes which leads to overdoing it.

 

I'm dealing with this very issue right now. I understand what you are going through. Although, I'm pretty sure MFW is off the table for us...

 

We do love it! The kids are doing very well with it and it is a good fit. BUUUUUT Combining for more years to come with HOD will prove to be very difficult. I can't imagine my DD9 doing CtC on her own. Although that is a couple years off still and maybe she will mature enough by then. One of my biggest worries with staying with HOD is the length of the day. I have read over and over how long the day can get with HOD.

 

Can I ask why MFW is off the table?

 

I found that when I needed my oldest to work more independently in her MFW stuff.. it was in language arts and math, and she got really good at doing science experiments on her own. I strongly preferred to read the history and Bible with (or to) her so I could teach it. She did book basket on her own. I needed to spend time with my middle and youngest (especially with their special needs). some stuff in CTG and above oldest did more on her own. this year I'm finding middle gal does a lot of her MFW stuff on her own so I can do my paid job (exercise instructor) and still try to work with youngest.

 

You can modify most things.

 

-crystal

 

As always Crystal, thanks for your wise words. It's funny because one of the very reasons that I don't want to stay with HOD is also one of the very reasons I am afraid of going to MFW. :) I want independence for the kids, but also want to learn with them.... there has to be a happy medium in there.

Of course you know I (selfishly) want you to stay with HOD, so we can talk and talk about it. You are the one who knows what's best for your family, and it sounds like you still love MFW. There is still always the option of SCM :) There are just too many good choices. How's a girl to stay loyal to one?

 

Hehehe we do have some great HOD talks. We do still love MFW but I cringe at the thought of not doing Preparing. I keep thinking maybe I should stop trying to plan so far ahead and just do Preparing and take it year by year.

 

 

If you really want to do Preparing then why not stick with it one more year before starting the 4-year cycle with MFW? I'm considering placing my dd in Preparing when she is in 4th grade. This would also allow us to avoid repeating ECC in grade 8. I know a lot of people love repeating it, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. We will start ECC in the fall so I have a while to think about it. I'm loving MFW and don't know if I will be able pull myself away to try Preparing. I may just be all talk! :) I can see why you are torn between the two.

 

That was my plan last year :) My oldest will be in 5th next year. We have already done ECC so if we go back to MFW next year he will be right on schedule to start highschool with MFW in 9th. If we take a year to do preparing he will have to either skip 1850 to Modern times and go on to highschool or be a year behind. Make sense?

[Donna A.]

Why do you want to switch to MFW? Are you concerned that you wouldn't be able to combine with HOD? For us this is a plus. I have tried MFW before and although I like the idea of combining, it just didn't work,even if my dc are relatively close in age. I have four dc (9yo in preparing,7 and 6 yo in Beyond and a 3 yo in LHTH) and combining them would be a disaster since they are at different skills level. In preparing,my 9 yo is able to work independently most of the boxes with very little help from me,which allows me to work with the little ones. He writes decent narrations with Carrie's prompts.The Bible in preparing is very short so we add a family devotional at night (dad reads it).We also add apologia and Latin since Preparing is so efficient and allows us time for exras. The areas where I'm more involved are exactly the opposites as some pp mentioned : LA( rod&Staff English) and math ( Singapore). I make sure my ds understands grammar ( especially since English is my 3rd language!) and we do the textbook and CWP together before I let him dig in the workbook by himself. In contrast, he does read his Preparing books by himself and follows the instructions in the guide. He does an incredible job! Here are some samples of his work.

http://pinterest.com...-for-his-glory/

 

 

I think HOD guides from Preparing&up are brilliantly designed so that our ds learn how to work independently and be responsible. I see that in my ds and it is a great skill to prepare him for college and/or work.

 

Well, I have a question about this.. a sincere question. I often hear this as the reason for going with HOD over MFW: "...and combining them would be a disaster since they are at different skills level." Given the fact that every child will always be at their own level in math and LA anyway, why would this be a determining factor for switching to HOD? (I know some people have other reasons, but I'm just talking about the "skills" concern.) Why wouldn't/couldn't one still do Latin and R&S English and Singapore (MFW recommends and sells Singapore w/lesson plans, btw) and whatever else one wants to do in the 3 R's? Copywork, written and oral narrations, dictation, memory work... these are all scheduled in MFW (and Marie's notes tell you how to apply these skills differently for each child's personal level), so as far as the "main resources" used for the 3 R's, why wouldn't a MFW student be developing in skills just as they would with HOD?

 

As for science, MFW schedules Apologia in some years, and one could certainly switch out the MFW science for Apologia (or just add it to what's already there) in the other years if they wanted to, so how is this different than HOD?

 

Just trying to figure out the "skills" factor.... :001_cool: Does one assume that because the parent isn't handing the TM over to the child to do everything by him or herself, that the child isn't learning how to independent and responsible?

[joyfulhomeschooler]

 

Well, I have a question about this.. a sincere question. I often hear this as the reason for going with HOD over MFW: "...and combining them would be a disaster since they are at different skills level." Given the fact that every child will always be at their own level in math and LA anyway, why would this be a determining factor for switching to HOD? (I know some people have other reasons, but I'm just talking about the "skills" concern.) Why wouldn't/couldn't one still do Latin and R&S English and Singapore (MFW recommends and sells Singapore w/lesson plans, btw) and whatever else one wants to do in the 3 R's? Copywork, written and oral narrations, dictation, memory work... these are all scheduled in MFW (and Marie's notes tell you how to apply these skills differently for each child's personal level), so as far as the "main resources" used for the 3 R's, why wouldn't a MFW student be developing in skills just as they would with HOD?

 

As for science, MFW schedules Apologia in some years, and one could certainly switch out the MFW science for Apologia (or just add it to what's already there) in the other years if they wanted to, so how is this different than HOD?

 

Just trying to figure out the "skills" factor.... :001_cool: Does one assume that because the parent isn't handing the TM over to the child to do everything by him or herself, that the child isn't learning how to independent and responsible?

 

I didn't understand this before doing HOD either. Now that we are over half way through Bigger I understand a little better. One concern for me would be the amount of writing... maybe another would be the book selections. Both of these could very easily be modified with a little extra effort on the parents part. For the writing, if you went into it with an attitude of knowing that you may have to expect less of your younger child it might work. For the book selections, you could maybe read ahead and sumarize or decide if you want to omit the material. This is just with Bigger though, I haven't done any other levels and have just started really digging into Preparing.

 

With MFW the 3 R's really aren't written into the main curriculum in my opinion as they are with HOD. LA is very integrated into HOD. For many that would be a bad thing... for us it has proved to be a good thing. With MFW I wasn't confident enough to know what to expect from my children writing and narration wise. HOD has given me more direction on that. I'm sure others will chime in, but that is my reasons.

[Donna A.]

With MFW the 3 R's really aren't written into the main curriculum in my opinion as they are with HOD. LA is very integrated into HOD. For many that would be a bad thing... for us it has proved to be a good thing. With MFW I wasn't confident enough to know what to expect from my children writing and narration wise. HOD has given me more direction on that. I'm sure others will chime in, but that is my reasons.

 

I think the key difference here is the fact that MFW is written for family use... multiple ages, a la one-room schoolhouse. (And I dare anyone to suggest that Laura Ingalls Wilder didn't receive enough personal attention or a good enough education in her one-room schoolhouse! ;) ) In a multi-age curriculum like MFW or any other unit study, you couldn't write the 3 R's into the lesson plans as specifically, lesson # by lesson #, as HOD does. If you have two or three or six children for which you're teaching the content subjects together, each of those children still has to have their own level 3 R's. I solved this "problem" (which I personally never perceived to be a problem) by photocopying the weekly grid, one for each student, and writing in their English or math lesson #'s on their own copies of the grid, which then went into their own portfolios with all of their other work. So in a way, it ended up being even more personalized than the way HOD does it. It really and truly wasn't a big deal at all.

 

For skills like narrations and copywork (which both MFW and HOD write in the lesson plans), that's Charlotte Mason or WTM. There are a gazillion books and internet sites that explain how to do this. For most "English" curriculums (R&S, Abeka, etc.), instructions are right there in either the student book or TM, so I wouldn't need the author of my curriculum for the content subjects to tell me how much to do. Most writing curriculums are the same way. Carrie just basically schedules "do the next thing" in English and Singapore, anyway. (Though I do like the hands-on ideas she includes for Singapore in the lower levels, but this stops after Bigger.)

 

I guess over the years I've learned how to be the teacher of my own children by consulting resources like TWTM, Ruth Beechick's books, and the myriads of books available on CM teachings, and there is a learning curve in the early years, that's true. So maybe that's why I'm not seeing it as a big deal NOW (in hindsight). Still, I figure we homeschoolers start out teaching only one child at a time, anyway. Well, most of us... I know some don't begin homeschooling until later. But I remember it being somewhat difficult when my second child reached school age and I was trying to figure out how to do the multi-age thing. It wasn't easy at first. In fact, I stumbled a LOT at the very beginning. The first multi-age curriculum we used successfully was MFW Adventures, and I literally just did what it said to do without second guessing it. But by the point, I had read an awful lot of how-to books, so I guess it just made sense to me.

 

I also give a lot of credit to the author of Five in a Row curriculum for teaching me how to teach. LOVE that for the early years! :thumbup:

[blessedmom3]

One certainly could easily combine for the content subjects and I'm sure that MFW works for many families...for us it didn't because my 9 yo comprehends at much higher level than my 7 ( with speech delay) and 6 yo. For ex. if we were doing ECC this year as we were supposed to, my youngers would be left behind again. I felt like they didn't get anything from MFW adventures. They are doing much better with their own guide,focusing on their own needs,in fact its amazing how they have grown in their narration skills, I attribute that to the LHFHG guide wedid last year. Plus, I really LOVE all the other skills integrated throughout HOD, like poetry,writing,literary analysis,comprehension,timeline,projects...etc most of these independently done, unlike MFW. Doing independent work in Preparing,was important for me this year as I was very sick, I'm part time working for home and I have the younger dc that need me. I don't think ECC or the future guides in MFW would allow me this luxury! ( I hadit,looked through itand sold it). Not to mention that I love the schedule in a box style in HOD ( many people hate these) and I like to have all my books in the package vs going to the library or skimming through the appendix, although in the early guides,HOD also has extra books recommended. Also,while you can accommodate MFW to work with a different age group, I do not have the time or desire to adapt it, I prefer instead to work with each child at their level, with their own guide and a schedule already prepared for me. The children enjoy it too, the oldest is eager to tell me his narrations or answer the questions inthe guide and the younger certainly appreciate my time with them only...another plus.

 

 

 

 

Well, I have a question about this.. a sincere question. I often hear this as the reason for going with HOD over MFW: "...and combining them would be a disaster since they are at different skills level." Given the fact that every child will always be at their own level in math and LA anyway, why would this be a determining factor for switching to HOD? (I know some people have other reasons, but I'm just talking about the "skills" concern.) Why wouldn't/couldn't one still do Latin and R&S English and Singapore (MFW recommends and sells Singapore w/lesson plans, btw) and whatever else one wants to do in the 3 R's? Copywork, written and oral narrations, dictation, memory work... these are all scheduled in MFW (and Marie's notes tell you how to apply these skills differently for each child's personal level), so as far as the "main resources" used for the 3 R's, why wouldn't a MFW student be developing in skills just as they would with HOD?

 

As for science, MFW schedules Apologia in some years, and one could certainly switch out the MFW science for Apologia (or just add it to what's already there) in the other years if they wanted to, so how is this different than HOD?

 

Just trying to figure out the "skills" factor.... :001_cool: Does one assume that because the parent isn't handing the TM over to the child to do everything by him or herself, that the child isn't learning how to independent and responsible?

 

[Donna A.]

Working while homeschooling would definitely add another dimension to one's homeschool, that's for sure. I would be sooooo stressed! :crying:

[blessedmom3]

I'm stressed, its a part of life. HOD makes it possible for me to homeschool, I'm very grateful for that especially after trying other curricula.

[twoxcell]

Donna, the difference I see is that MFW schedules the History, Science, and Bible readings and then the skills are tacked on for each child at their level. With HOD the skills are woven into everything and each guide is written specifically for a smaller target age. Does that makes sense? The other problem some people have with MFW is that since their guides are written for a wider target audience the book may either be over or under their kids heads. Since HOD guides are for a smaller audience Carrie can select books more targeted to the ages for the guide. I have not personally used MFW this is just from observation. I have used 5 different HOD guides and we love them. I'm anxiously waiting for CTC to arrive in the mail. I am glad that there are other options like MFW out there and I think it works great for many families. I spent a lot of time looking at MFW and almost bought it myself, but I just preferred the book selections with HOD over MFW and I like that the skills are woven in and planned for me already. ;) Also HOD had more of the CM skills I wanted already in each guide.

[Mommy22alyns]

See, I actually prefer MFW not tying in skill subjects. Part of what throws me off about HOD is them writing in math and grammar for me.

[twoxcell]

See, I actually prefer MFW not tying in skill subjects. Part of what throws me off about HOD is them writing in math and grammar for me.

Well the basic grammar and math are written in the guide but you can really use what you want for those. What I'm talking about is the LA skills that are woven throughout the guide. :)

[Donna A.]

See, I actually prefer MFW not tying in skill subjects. Part of what throws me off about HOD is them writing in math and grammar for me.

 

:iagree: I need to be able to personalize the skill subjects without worrying about what time period of history they're on. Copywork, narrations, and dictation are "universal", so to speak, and can be done with any books, any curriculum. But with the other... the tools that we use (and amount done each day) can vary soooooo much from one child to the next.

[Donna A.]

Well the basic grammar and math are written in the guide but you can really use what you want for those. What I'm talking about is the LA skills that are woven throughout the guide. :)

 

But see, those are in MFW, too.... those CM skills of copywork, narrations (oral and written), dictation, and memory work. It's all there, all across the curriculum. (I've used 11 years' worth of MFW programs, and trust me, it's there!)

 

Besides that, Carrie adds a separate writing curriculum somewhere along the way.... and so does MFW. ;) MFW just leaves room on the grid for the parent to write in any substitutions if we don't want to use what they have recommended for the 3 R's and electives (like art). There isn't room on the HOD daily spread to do that, really.

 

Bottom line is that we each have our own preferences for how we want things implemented. MFW and HOD are both beautiful programs... and both incorporate ALL of the necessary skills (and then some). I guess I just get tired of hearing people say that MFW doesn't incorporate them, when in fact they do. {sigh} Marie's just laid it out differently than Carrie has.

 

Oh, and guess what. My 11th grader (who's not doing MFW this year, but has for the past 8 years) got nearly perfect scores in Reading and English on her ACT last month. (She didn't study for those subjects from the ACT prep book, either.) Surely she's not lacking in LA skills in her education. :lol:

[joyfulhomeschooler]

 

But see, those are in MFW, too.... those CM skills of copywork, narrations (oral and written), dictation, and memory work. It's all there, all across the curriculum. (I've used 11 years' worth of MFW programs, and trust me, it's there!)

I don't think they are as layed out. I only used up to ECC though, so maybe it gets more so in the later guides. Carrie actually writes in what to say to and expect from your child with narrations. With MFW it seemed like that was left up to the parent to do (choosing what books to do it with and how to go about it). Am I wrong on that? For some the less explanation with MFW is a better choice. For me, not being very confident with what to expect and how to even go about it, it wasn't a good fit. Now that I am a little more confident I would do better with it.

Besides that, Carrie adds a separate writing curriculum somewhere along the way.... and so does MFW. ;) MFW just leaves room on the grid for the parent to write in any substitutions if we don't want to use what they have recommended for the 3 R's and electives (like art). There isn't room on the HOD daily spread to do that, really.

There is room to write in what you want with HOD. If I chose to do something different other than R&S I would just write it in next to where she has written do lesson such and such in R&S. With math, we use a different math than HOD recommends and I don't write anything in. I just go to the next lesson. The LA that is woven into HOD is completely seperate from english with R&S. The poetry studies, the narrations, the copywork, research skills, etc. I don't feel like there is any of this added in to MFW at a specific grade/age level. It is much easier to fit it to the child because of that.

 

Bottom line is that we each have our own preferences for how we want things implemented. MFW and HOD are both beautiful programs... and both incorporate ALL of the necessary skills (and then some). I guess I just get tired of hearing people say that MFW doesn't incorporate them, when in fact they do. {sigh} Marie's just laid it out differently than Carrie has.

I agree that they are there, they are just more up to the parent to know what to do. The poetry in MFW is in PLL and ILL and if you don't do that for LA you don't get poetry. The narrations in the levels we did weren't as clearly written into the curriculum. I often found myself forgetting to do things because it wasn't clearly written into the guide. So, yes, it is there it's just harder to work for some of us. I am not putting down MFW. We loved it, and I am very tempted to go back. I just needed that extra guidance for a while. In preparing the narrations on day 4 are extremely layed out for the parent to guide the student. Almost too much so :) Take a look at the examples and let me know if MFW does that. Not to be rude, I am actually interested because I love MFW and wonder if I missed something.

 

Oh, and guess what. My 11th grader (who's not doing MFW this year, but has for the past 8 years) got nearly perfect scores in Reading and English on her ACT last month. (She didn't study for those subjects from the ACT prep book, either.) Surely she's not lacking in LA skills in her education. :lol:

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I guess what I was trying to say was that HOD's LA is more integrated through the program. Where as MFW's LA is mostly from the chosen english book, PLL or ILL. They both offer narrations, copywork, and dictation. MFW's is just easier to fit the the child's skill level where as HOD it's not as easy. I wasn't trying to put either program down.

[twoxcell]

But see, those are in MFW, too.... those CM skills of copywork, narrations (oral and written), dictation, and memory work. It's all there, all across the curriculum. (I've used 11 years' worth of MFW programs, and trust me, it's there!)

That may be so. I haven't used MFW, but from what I have heard and seen MFW is more open in the implementation. As far as MFW having all those things you mentioned, are they actually planned and written within the guide or is it more of a prompt thing? I am unaware of MFW having specific dictation passages etc. within their guides. Most things in HOD are very precise and planned out step by step. I'm sure that MFW is a great curriculum and that many families and kids have and are thriving with it. :)

[twoxcell]

I guess what I was trying to say was that HOD's LA is more integrated through the program. Where as MFW's LA is mostly from the chosen english book, PLL or ILL. They both offer narrations, copywork, and dictation. MFW's is just easier to fit the the child's skill level where as HOD it's not as easy.

 

I haven't found that to be be true with HOD at all. If you place each child correctly into a guide, in general it works well. Also each guide offers a few different levels of each skill subject. Now if you are meaning it is hard to combine more than one kid into a guide than that may be true. That is why I do not combine any of my kids.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

That may be so. I haven't used MFW, but from what I have heard and seen MFW is more open in the implementation. As far as MFW having all those things you mentioned, are they actually planned and written within the guide or is it more of a prompt thing? I am unaware of MFW having specific dictation passages etc. within their guides. Most things in HOD are very precise and planned out step by step. I'm sure that MFW is a great curriculum and that many families and kids have and are thriving with it. :)

MFW's dictation is written out in the guide. It is in the form of a Bible verse/verses weekly. If memory serves me right the first day they copy it, 2nd day it's dictated to them. From my experience MFW is more open in implementation. Most of it is a prompt thing.

[twoxcell]

Oh, and guess what. My 11th grader (who's not doing MFW this year, but has for the past 8 years) got nearly perfect scores in Reading and English on her ACT last month. (She didn't study for those subjects from the ACT prep book, either.) Surely she's not lacking in LA skills in her education. :lol:

:) I don't think anyone here is talking about MFW being lacking in LA skills. I was just trying to explain from my perspective the differences between the two. Since you are the one with MFW experience, you would know more about MFW then me. Also my oldest is only 9. It looks like you have a few more years under your belt with homeschooling. ;)

[Juliegmom]

I think I would enjoy the LA integration in HOD. PLL wasn't a good fit and we already use Rod and Staff and plan to add in Apologia next year. Sometimes I wonder if I'm having a case of "the grass is greener on the other side" or if HOD is something we should really try . My main concern is making sure that the history, science and bible teaching is at my dd's skill level. While I love MFW, sometimes I question if this is the curriculum I should be using since I am only homeschooling one and not having to worry about teaching multiple ages. Honestly, when I read comments like these it's makes me want to give HOD a try...

 

"The other problem some people have with MFW is that since their guides are written for a wider target audience the book may either be over or under their kids heads. Since HOD guides are for a smaller audience Carrie can select books more targeted to the ages for the guide."

 

... I really need to learn how to list a previous post as many of you have done. :001_rolleyes:

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I think I would enjoy the LA integration in HOD. PLL wasn't a good fit and we already use Rod and Staff and plan to add in Apologia next year. Sometimes I wonder if I'm having a case of "the grass is greener on the other side" or if HOD is something we should really try . My main concern is making sure that the history, science and bible teaching is at my dd's skill level. While I love MFW, sometimes I question if this is the curriculum I should be using since I am only homeschooling one and not having to worry about teaching multiple ages. Honestly, when I read comments like these it's makes me want to give HOD a try...

 

"The other problem some people have with MFW is that since their guides are written for a wider target audience the book may either be over or under their kids heads. Since HOD guides are for a smaller audience Carrie can select books more targeted to the ages for the guide."

 

... I really need to learn how to list a previous post as many of you have done. :001_rolleyes:

Ahh the grass is greener on the other side syndrom lol :) I suffer from the same disease. I have to say though, that if I was only teaching one, I would still be drawn to both programs. The only reason HOD works for us is because there is a good gap inbetween my two sets of close aged kids. 9&7 work well together and then we've got the 2&8 month old that will be close in skill level (Lord willing).

[Juliegmom]

That's good to know. Thank you!

[Donna A.]

I agree that they are there, they are just more up to the parent to know what to do. The poetry in MFW is in PLL and ILL and if you don't do that for LA you don't get poetry. The narrations in the levels we did weren't as clearly written into the curriculum. I often found myself forgetting to do things because it wasn't clearly written into the guide. So, yes, it is there it's just harder to work for some of us. I am not putting down MFW. We loved it, and I am very tempted to go back. I just needed that extra guidance for a while. In preparing the narrations on day 4 are extremely layed out for the parent to guide the student. Almost too much so :) Take a look at the examples and let me know if MFW does that. Not to be rude, I am actually interested because I love MFW and wonder if I missed something.

 

I've owned the Preparing manual before, as well as Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, CTC, and RTR. I really and truly tried to use Bigger, Preparing, CTC, and RTR in earnest. (I gave up on Little Hearts and Beyond pretty quickly.) In fact, I still have Bigger in my house and have been using some components of it recently with my youngest. So I do know what all they contain and how they're laid out.

 

I guess I see it this way. The 3 R's, including dictation and poetry, are going to be skill-level specific. I get that, and agree. So regardless of which publisher I'm using for the content subjects -- MFW, HOD, SL, TOG, Ambleside, Abeka, BJU.... -- I'm going to have to have something for the 3 R's, poetry (if I even want poetry... many don't), art, and any other electives. To me, I can (and should) tailor all these skills subjects to my child's own specific level regardless of who we're using for our content subjects. One of the problems I've personally had with every level of HOD that I've tried is the fact that the level my children are on in the 3 R's doesn't match up with the level of comprehension or abstract thinking in the content subjects. I read a post on the HOD board once that said that Carrie says each child should be getting 1/3 "easy" work, 1/3 "on level", and 1/3 challenging. Okay, that makes sense! It makes sense as to why there's so much variance in each manual -- why my DDs (my two DDs that I've tried using HOD with) can do some of it, and not others. When a curriculum is *too* specific, or too targeted to the "average student in the middle" of that grade level, particularly in the skills subjects, it doesn't leave me much flexibility unless I go outside of the "plan" to get what she needs in the areas that are too easy or too hard. I read of a LOT of HOD moms only doing half a guide at a time (right or left side) because doing it all is either too much or not enough, and thus spreading it out over two years. Either that or they're not using half of it at all, or they're using multiple guides for one child because the child doesn't fit neatly within one guide. To me, it's a big headache trying to mess with all that! With MFW, I've got the content subjects right there, with plenty of room on the grid for writing in their 3 R's and electives..... even if some of those electives come from an HOD manual. ;) (If it wasn't HOD, it would be R&S or Abeka or somebody else.) And yet, there are plenty of moms using HOD for the content subjects, but using something else for the right side of the manual. (So the opposite problem.)

 

Yes, you're right, if you want poetry with MFW, you find that within PLL and ILL. Or a separate book of poetry or FLL or whatever one chooses. But keep in mind that poetry is one of those subjects that many families don't ever bother with. They don't want to do poetry. Given that, I don't really see it as a "loss" to not have the poetry laid out right there in the manual. Plus, PLL and ILL include other LA skills besides just poetry. But yes, if you choose to use something more "traditional" for LA (like R&S) instead of PLL and ILL, you'd lose the poetry. One could easily get another book of poetry to add in if they really wanted the poetry, though? I've been reading A Child's Garden of Verses (Stevenson) to my dd at night for a couple of months now. She loves poetry, whether it comes from an HOD manual or a separate book. :)

 

I guess I don't understand the "not knowing what to do" in MFW. Marie gives instruction in the several pages of notes at the front of the manual, as well as the daily notes following the grid each week. Then there's the Archive and Ideas forums with plenty of advice from moms who've BTDT, the main "general" forum, as well as calling the office to just simply ask. PLL and ILL are very CM'ish, and it didn't seem that hard to me to figure how to use them, but I realize that if one isn't used to that type of learning, it could be confusing. I'd been reading up on CM methods for a long time before I even found MFW, though, and had also just read TWTM that summer, so maybe that had something to do with it. I was able to incorporate what I'd already learned before finding MFW, so it was like a breath of fresh air to me.

 

I also like the visual layout of the weekly grid so that I can work the whole week "at a glance" and write in whatever I want. I know the weekly grid overwhelms some folks, though. (Whereas for me, all those boxes filling up a 2-page spread in an HOD guide makes my head hurt. LOL) It's a visual thing.

 

All that said, there are moms happily using TOG which I ruled out a long time ago for the some of the same reasons that some HOD moms have ruled out MFW. :001_rolleyes: TOG is *so* heavily focused on history and lit that they don't even have as many subjects written in as MFW does, so..... To each their own! :001_smile:

[twoxcell]

I read of a LOT of HOD moms only doing half a guide at a time (right or left side) because doing it all is either too much or not enough, and thus spreading it out over two years. Either that or they're not using half of it at all, or they're using multiple guides for one child because the child doesn't fit neatly within one guide. To me, it's a big headache trying to mess with all that! With MFW, I've got the content subjects right there, with plenty of room on the grid for writing in their 3 R's and electives..... even if some of those electives come from an HOD manual. ;) (If it wasn't HOD, it would be R&S or Abeka or somebody else.) And yet, there are plenty of moms using HOD for the content subjects, but using something else for the right side of the manual. (So the opposite problem.)

I haven't had any problem thus far fitting my kids into a HOD guide, or completing a guide within a grade level time frame. Every family is different. I always feel that in the end children will benefit the most from something that actually gets completed rather than jumping around constantly trying to find some imaginary perfect curriculum.

[Donna A.]

That may be so. I haven't used MFW, but from what I have heard and seen MFW is more open in the implementation. As far as MFW having all those things you mentioned, are they actually planned and written within the guide or is it more of a prompt thing? I am unaware of MFW having specific dictation passages etc. within their guides. Most things in HOD are very precise and planned out step by step. I'm sure that MFW is a great curriculum and that many families and kids have and are thriving with it. :)

 

 

MFW does not have a separate section in the manual with dictation passages like HOD does, no. Doing this would make it too difficult to use with children of multiple ages, which MFW is written for. It's a multi-level curriculum.... how could you include skill-specific assignments with *too* much detail for every child in the family? So no, you won't find full length dictation passages targeted just to a 2nd grader or a 5th grader right there in the manual.

 

But there are dictation exercises in PLL (2nd and 3rd gr.) and ILL (4th-6th gr.) (and each of those books is separated into grade level "sections"), and there are also dictation assignments on the weekly grid that go with Bible or other subjects. For example, picking LA assignments from a couple of random weeks in MFW CTG which I have handy here, the grid for Week 6 shows memory work (Bible verse, books of the OT, and beginning to memorize the Ten Commandments), vocabulary, dictionary work, handwriting, dictation of the memory verse, Spelling, English, Writing Strands, Reading, Foreign Language, Book Basket, and the week's family read-aloud. Also, notebooking and mapwork.

 

(Disclaimer: There's quite a bit more Bible reading listed in the teacher notes, too, so Bible is more than just the one verse, the OT books, and the 10 C's. I was just listing the assignments for that week that are specific to language arts, and those three Bible assignments are part of the memory work for the week.)

 

Flipping ahead to another random week... Week 29. The grid shows the memory verse of the week plus review of previously memorized Bible passages (some quite lengthy), review of OT books, vocabulary, dictionary work, Dictation of Bible passage, handwriting, Spelling, English, Writing Strands, family read-aloud, Reading, Foreign Language, and Book Basket. Also, notebooking, mapwork, and timeline.

 

And if one is using PLL/ILL, one is doing additional dictation there, as well. Some other English curriculums include dictation, too... I know FLL does. SCM has several products with dictation in them. Does R&S?

 

You are right, though, in that "MFW is more open in implementation", to some extent. Everything isn't scripted word for word. But in the Teaching Tips at the front of the manual, on the page with directions on how to do "Bible" in CTG, there's a section describing how to do the Dictation exercises. "Dictation is a simple and practical approach....." After a description, there's a step 1, step 2, step 3, and step 4.

 

The next page, after talking about the OT Feasts and Math, Marie talks about Handwriting, Spelling... (two pages later)... and English. She spends two whole pages explaining how "English" in MFW works, including detailed description of how to use PLL and ILL, which include picture study, copywork, dictation, reading, poetry, observation lessons, and oral reproductions (narrations). Then she goes into describing Writing Strands, Vocab, letter-writing, Reading, and Book Basket.

 

There's more, but you get the idea. Instructions are there. It's not scripted word-for-word, subject by subject on a daily basis, but instructions are there. Dictation and all those other CM skills show up in several different places, under multiple subjects, throughout the curriculum.

 

Does that help explain it some? I know it's hard to see from the online samples.... (I would personally show more of the teaching tips from the front of the manual and perhaps a sampling of the Book Basket list, but hey, I don't work for them. :tongue_smilie: ) And when you're looking at a 2-page spread in HOD next to a 2-page spread in MFW, they do look quite different. HOD *looks* a lot fuller. She has a lot more script on the page, kwim?

[Juliegmom]

Donna, I find your comments reassuring that we are on the right path with MFW. :001_smile:

[Juliegmom]

Would anyone be willing to give me some tips on how to insert quotes from previous posts?

[Donna A.]

I think I would enjoy the LA integration in HOD. PLL wasn't a good fit and we already use Rod and Staff and plan to add in Apologia next year. Sometimes I wonder if I'm having a case of "the grass is greener on the other side" or if HOD is something we should really try . My main concern is making sure that the history, science and bible teaching is at my dd's skill level. While I love MFW, sometimes I question if this is the curriculum I should be using since I am only homeschooling one and not having to worry about teaching multiple ages. Honestly, when I read comments like these it's makes me want to give HOD a try...

 

"The other problem some people have with MFW is that since their guides are written for a wider target audience the book may either be over or under their kids heads. Since HOD guides are for a smaller audience Carrie can select books more targeted to the ages for the guide."

 

... I really need to learn how to list a previous post as many of you have done. :001_rolleyes:

 

At the bottom of each post is a button that says "Quote". Just hit that, and the post you're quoting will show up in a new post for you to reply to. :)

 

Yes, Carrie has scheduled books more targeted to the ages for that guide, but MFW has many books for all ages included in each guide (from ECC and up). That's one of the features of MFW that makes it so flexible with multiple ages... but that doesn't mean it can't be used with just one child, either. Julie in MN has been using MFW with one child for many years. She's posted both here and on the MFW forums quite a bit, so maybe you could do a search.

 

In fact, I'm using MFW with just one child now, my youngest. My older two are in high school (dd #2 just started MFW AHL last month), so it's just my little gal now. I've been working through CTG with her. http://www.mfwbooks.com/products/M50/40/15/0/1 We don't read Streams (a high school book). I won't read The Children's Homer to her. (We save that for later in our family.) But I do, or will do, everything else with her except the art. (We do something else for art.) And we read a LOT of books from Book Basket. :) (One could even buy some of the books from HOD CTC -- or Preparing -- to use in lieu of Book Basket/library if they wanted to.)

 

I do use PLL with her, but she also does Climbing to Good English for the phonics work and gentle, incremental lessons because she has LDs in the language arts skills due to a speech disorder. She does both Singapore and R&S for math, at her own level. I pick and choose from the hands-on assignments as we go along. We read poetry both in PLL and in a separate poetry book.

 

If my dd were a middle schooler doing CTG instead of a 4th grader with language arts LDs, I obviously wouldn't have her read The Trojan Horse Step Into Reading. :lol: But she would read The Children's Homer instead, as well as the "advanced" readings assigned from Streams, and I might have her do some of the assignments at the end of each unit in Streams, too. She would also have a lot of choices from Book Basket. She would be doing Apologia science instead of Genesis for Kids. And we'd still be reading the scheduled family read-alouds together as a family. (My dh has even enjoyed those stories! The Patricia St. John books...)

 

Celebrating Biblical Feasts is something we've done together as a family, too, whenever a feast comes up in the lesson plans.

 

So that's how MFW works with just one child. :)

[Donna A.]

Donna, I find your comments reassuring that we are on the right path with MFW. :001_smile:

 

You seem unsure, and I really do understand the dilemma! HOD has many wonderful features about it.... I keep trying it out myself! :001_rolleyes: I just think there's a lot of folks who don't "get" how MFW really works, and some of the comments and questions brought up in this thread seemed to present a good opportunity to explain in more detail. I'm sorry if I sound contentious. I really feel like maybe some moms just need to be taught how to use MFW, kwim?

 

Now MY weakness is math. Let's not talk about how long it took me to figure out how to teach THAT subject, okay? :scared:

[Juliegmom]

Thanks so much, Donna! I'm learning so much and totally enjoying our first year homeschooling! I'm so thankful to all those who are helping me learn the ropes. :001_smile:

[twoxcell]

Thanks for the info Donna. It does make MFW a bit more clear. ;)

[joyfulhomeschooler]

 

At the bottom of each post is a button that says "Quote". Just hit that, and the post you're quoting will show up in a new post for you to reply to. :)

 

Yes, Carrie has scheduled books more targeted to the ages for that guide, but MFW has many books for all ages included in each guide (from ECC and up). That's one of the features of MFW that makes it so flexible with multiple ages... but that doesn't mean it can't be used with just one child, either. Julie in MN has been using MFW with one child for many years. She's posted both here and on the MFW forums quite a bit, so maybe you could do a search.

 

In fact, I'm using MFW with just one child now, my youngest. My older two are in high school (dd #2 just started MFW AHL last month), so it's just my little gal now. I've been working through CTG with her. http://www.mfwbooks....40/15/0/1����We don't read Streams (a high school book). I won't read The Children's Homer to her. (We save that for later in our family.) But I do, or will do, everything else with her except the art. (We do something else for art.) And we read a LOT of books from Book Basket. :) (One could even buy some of the books from HOD CTC -- or Preparing -- to use in lieu of Book Basket/library if they wanted to.)

 

I do use PLL with her, but she also does Climbing to Good English for the phonics work and gentle, incremental lessons because she has LDs in the language arts skills due to a speech disorder. She does both Singapore and R&S for math, at her own level. I pick and choose from the hands-on assignments as we go along. We read poetry both in PLL and in a separate poetry book.

 

If my dd were a middle schooler doing CTG instead of a 4th grader with language arts LDs, I obviously wouldn't have her read The Trojan Horse Step Into Reading. :lol: But she would read The Children's Homer instead, as well as the "advanced" readings assigned from Streams, and I might have her do some of the assignments at the end of each unit in Streams, too. She would also have a lot of choices from Book Basket. She would be doing Apologia science instead of Genesis for Kids. And we'd still be reading the scheduled family read-alouds together as a family. (My dh has even enjoyed those stories! The Patricia St. John books...)

 

 

The above paragraph in my opinion explains the main difference between the two programs. In HOD the books are definately set for a certain age/grade in MFW you have the option to choose for your child.

Celebrating Biblical Feasts is something we've done together as a family, too, whenever a feast comes up in the lesson plans.

 

So that's how MFW works with just one child. :)

 

I have enjoyed reading your posts Donna. It's great to hash this stuff out with other homeschooling moms. Maybe I don't quite understand teaching with MFW as I thought I did. Sometimes I just felt like I needed a little more direction in the CM style teaching and HOD does that for me. Obviously I am not turned off by the lack of that in MFW to keep me away though . I love the program and will continue to learn everything I can about CM's style and am still seriously conisdering switching back to MFW. Maybe you would be willing to give me some pointers if and when that time comes.

 

Thanks for all your time and though on this!

[joyfulhomeschooler]

O.K. after much thought... WAAAY too much thought I have an idea.

 

What do you all think of this?

 

Since DS is technically in 3rd grade (late bday) and will be testing at 3rd grade this year. I think I should be able to fit in preparing (since we really don't want to miss it) and still manage to go back to MFW.

 

So for next year:

4th and 3rd grades do preparing with HOD

 

Then the year after go back to MFW starting with CtG for 5th and 4th grade. We then would be able to complete the MFW four year cycle in time for my eldest to start highschool.

 

Thoughts???? Donna, Crystal??? What do you ladies think?

[Donna A.]

O.K. after much thought... WAAAY too much thought I have an idea.

 

What do you all think of this?

 

Since DS is technically in 3rd grade (late bday) and will be testing at 3rd grade this year. I think I should be able to fit in preparing (since we really don't want to miss it) and still manage to go back to MFW.

 

So for next year:

4th and 3rd grades do preparing with HOD

 

Then the year after go back to MFW starting with CtG for 5th and 4th grade. We then would be able to complete the MFW four year cycle in time for my eldest to start highschool.

 

Thoughts???? Donna, Crystal??? What do you ladies think?

 

Go for it!!! And if you find you like what HOD schedules for grammar, writing, and math, keep it when you go back to MFW. :001_smile:

[Juliegmom]

I agree! Sounds like a great plan!