WWE and WWS1

[Murphy101]

I'm hoping to get some questions answered from the btdt crowd.

 

For WWE, there is ONE teacher guide that is used for all 4 student books, correct? Do I need the student books? Anyone not use them and care to share how that looks for them? How much time is the teacher spending for each lesson?

 

For WWS1, there is one guide for the one student book. Again, how necessary is the student book and how much teacher time is necessary per lesson? If you buy the student book, how much coping do they have to do out of it so that it is not consumable?

 

I know it can vary, but I'm looking at what would seem to be a reasonable expectation.

 

I was thinking of having my 5th grader start with WWE4, grammar and so forth would be from Seton.

 

And having my 7th - 10th graders start with WWS1. Or would it be reasonable to have my high schoolers go straight to WWS2?

 

They all write "okay" and are decent about using some logic in their ordering of papers. The high schoolers need some considerable work on their organization and sourcing of longer papers.

 

I've been doing okay doing my own thing, so I feel fairly confident of etching writing. I'm just needing a break from all the planning time. Having something rigorous and completely layer out sounds lovely and rare. I'm hoping WWE and WWS1 and maybe 2 will fit my criteria and needs.

 

Would you share your pros and cons of the program, please?

 

Thanks.

[Colleen in NS]

I'm hoping to get some questions answered from the btdt crowd.

 

For WWE, there is ONE teacher guide that is used for all 4 student books, correct? No. You have two options. The first is to use the thin, hardcover instructor guide that covers four years of teaching. With this, you'd find sample weeks of how to teach, and then pick your own reading on which to practice the skills learned. The second option is the workbook. Do I need the student books? Not if you use the thin instructor guide; yes if you use the student/teacher workbook. Anyone not use them and care to share how that looks for them? I used the thin instructor guide, so that I could pick our own reading selections. How much time is the teacher spending for each lesson?

 

For WWS1, there is one guide for the one student book. Again, how necessary is the student book Very - you need both. and how much teacher time is necessary per lesson? Sometimes just a quick glance at the day's work (the program talks to the student and gives as much independence as possible), and sometimes sitting down and reading through a paper and comparing it to the rubric. Sometimes a literature discussion. But, you don't really have to prep for a lesson - it's all in there - the instructor guide is wonderful. If you buy the student book, how much coping do they have to do out of it so that it is not consumable?

 

I know it can vary, but I'm looking at what would seem to be a reasonable expectation.

 

I was thinking of having my 5th grader start with WWE4, grammar and so forth would be from Seton. If you are looking at saving yourself some time, I'd go with the workbook route with WWE 4, not the thin, hardcover book route (that will take more thinking on your part).

 

And having my 7th - 10th graders start with WWS1. Or would it be reasonable to have my high schoolers go straight to WWS2? I wouldn't. I'd have them start (and double up lessons if possible) with WWS 1. WWS 2 very much depends on the background of WWS 1.

 

They all write "okay" and are decent about using some logic in their ordering of papers. The high schoolers need some considerable work on their organization and sourcing of longer papers.

 

WWS will definitely show the student how to do this! It is very precise in how it gets the student to think about what he's doing.

[Murphy101]

Okay. So the thin hardback book is by itself, otherwise there is a teacher guide and a workbook for each level. Okay, thanks.

 

Is there a booklist for the book excerpts she uses?

 

Did you have them write in the WWS student book? Do you think it would be a pain if they didn't?

 

So for my needs I'd need to purchase:

 

WWE4 teacher guide and student book

 

WWS1 teacher book and 3 student books. Or hopefully just one bc it doesn't have to be consumable and thus they can share it?

[Colleen in NS]

Okay. So the thin hardback book is by itself, otherwise there is a teacher guide and a workbook for each level. Okay, thanks.

 

Is there a booklist for the book excerpts she uses? I don't know about the WWE workbooks, but the hardcover guide has a list in the back.

 

Did you have them write in the WWS student book? Do you think it would be a pain if they didn't? Most of the work is done on separate paper.

 

So for my needs I'd need to purchase:

 

WWE4 teacher guide and student book yes, the one book that combines these

 

WWS1 teacher book and 3 student books. yes Or hopefully just one bc it doesn't have to be consumable and thus they can share it?

 

 

Most of the work is done on separate paper, but there are parts where the student needs to mark up a passage in some way (circling, underlining, marking patterns in poems, etc.) or write an answer into a blank.

 

I saw your note on the other thread about time. The 30 or so minutes for the student is not all teacher-intensive. Occasionally, yes, but mostly no.

[texasmama]

Did you have them write in the WWS student book? Do you think it would be a pain if they didn't? The WWS1 student book contains instructions, but (so far, two weeks into it) my son is writing his work on notebook paper and putting it in a three ring binder, organized as instructed in the student book.

 

So for my needs I'd need to purchase:

 

WWE4 teacher guide and student book

 

WWS1 teacher book and 3 student books. Or hopefully just one bc it doesn't have to be consumable and thus they can share it? I think you just need one student book. Your kids can share it. We plan to use the student book as a non consumable. I also used the WWE books as a non consumable.

 

I accidentally bought two instructor books for WWS1 so pm me if you are interested in my extra book for a good price.

[Murphy101]

Hmmm. I don't mind some copying, but I sure don't want to copy half the book times 3. If you could ballpark a percentage of writing in the book, would it be less than 20% or so?

[TarynB]

Is there a booklist for the book excerpts she uses? I have WWE4, and, yes, there is a list of the book selections by week in the front.

 

So for my needs I'd need to purchase:

 

WWE4 teacher guide and student book No. WWE4 is the teacher guide and student pages all in one book. So you don't need to buy two separate books, just the one. (The teacher pages are approx. the first 140 or so pages; the student pages are another 300 or so pages.)

 

A few more tidbits added above in red. HTH!

[Murphy101]

Okay so if I get the WWE4 student book, that includes the teacher guide and I do not need to buy the hardback foundations book?

[JennyCook]

I have sort of the same line of questions. I bought one student workbook for both my 4th and 5th graders. We are just starting homeschool. They are only 16 months apart and I thought it would be convenient to have them in the same book. I got the WWE4 workbook. But it sounds like I need the teacher book as well? I was planning on having them just use their own paper to write but using the examples etc from the workbook so my younger kids can use it as well. Will this work?

 

Is it a good idea to start both of them in this book? We haven't done anything like this before. Can they just jump in? My fifth grader writes better than my 4th grader. Both are on grade level if not slightly above....any thoughts?

 

 

[TarynB]

Okay so if I get the WWE4 student book, that includes the teacher guide and I do not need to buy the hardback foundations book?

 

 

That is correct, with WWE4 (or any of the numbered WWE workbooks) you do not need the hardback book. However, I want to point out that WWE4 is not a "student book". It is called a workbook but it includes both the teacher guide and the student pages in two separate sections of the same book. The workbooks have space for the student to write in them if you choose to have them do so - hence the "workbook" name.

 

I might be mistaken, but I think that SWB came out with the hardback book first, then wrote the numbered WWE workbooks because some homeschool parents (like me) wanted/needed even more guidance than the hardback book provides. But other homeschool parents, I'm sure, do just fine teaching writing on their own with "just" the hardback book.

 

As Colleen said above, you have two options for using the Writing With Ease program. Option #1, "use the thin, hardcover instructor guide that covers four years of teaching. With this, you'd find sample weeks of how to teach, and then pick your own reading on which to practice the skills learned." Option #2 is buying the workbooks. Each numbered level of workbook (i.e, WWE4) includes the relevant scripted teacher section in the same physical book as the student pages.

 

(Edited to clarify.)

[happypamama]

Okay so if I get the WWE4 student book, that includes the teacher guide and I do not need to buy the hardback foundations book?

 

Correct. We just have the WWE2 and WWE4 student books and don't need the small hardback book. I originally thought I'd just get the hardback book instead of WWE2 for my second grader, and then I realized that it would take me a lot of time to find, copy, etc. the passages, and it was worth the few extra dollars for the full student book.

 

Also, I don't have my kids write in the student books; they write on paper that's appropriate for their skill level. For the second grader, I copy the copywork passage for him onto his paper. You can also just buy a copy of the student pages if you do want to write in the books and reuse them from year to year.

 

I'm getting WWS for my next-year sixth grader, and I think I'll just buy the e-books for both of them (student book and teacher book) and possibly for WWE3 for the next-year third grader, unless I find a really good deal on the paper books.

[Colleen in NS]

Oh Martha, I made a mistake in my explanation! I edited my posts. Also see below. Sorry about that!

 

If you could ballpark a percentage of writing in the book, would it be less than 20% or so?

 

Probably.

 

Okay so if I get the WWE4 student book, that includes the teacher guide and I do not need to buy the hardback foundations book?

 

That is correct. WWE4 is not a "student book". It is called a workbook but it includes both the teacher guide and the student pages in two separate sections of the same book.

 

Sorry about that, Martha! TarynB is correct in all she said!

 

I never used the WWE workbooks, so I keep forgetting that they are two-in-one for each level.

 

I have sort of the same line of questions. I bought one student workbook for both my 4th and 5th graders. We are just starting homeschool. They are only 16 months apart and I thought it would be convenient to have them in the same book. I got the WWE4 workbook. But it sounds like I need the teacher book as well? No, I made a mistake in my explanation! :) You choose either the (one, combined) workbook (where each day's work is laid out) or the thin hardcover book (where you get sample weeks and then make up your own lessons with your own reading). I was planning on having them just use their own paper to write but using the examples etc from the workbook so my younger kids can use it as well. Will this work? (someone correct me again if I'm wrong) I think the WWE workbooks require the students to write in the workbook fairly often? So you might need two of them, or buy a set of extra pages for each additional student or something like that.

 

Is it a good idea to start both of them in this book? We haven't done anything like this before. Can they just jump in? My fifth grader writes better than my 4th grader. Both are on grade level if not slightly above....any thoughts?

 

If they've never done anything like this before, you can always try WWE 4. If it's too difficult, you can back up to WWE 3, 2, or 1; depending on what they need, and then go forward again. I think there are diagnostic tests available somewhere - I know they are in the thin hardcover book, but you wouldn't want to buy that just to diagnose. Maybe someone else knows where these tests can be found...

 

Also, if they end up needing to begin in WWE 3, 2, or 1; you can double up on lessons to move faster, and once the 4th and 5th grader are through WWE 3, they can skip WWE 4 and move into WWS 1. WWE 4 is a bridge for younger kids (4th graders who've done 3, 2, and 1, but need an extra year before getting into WWS).

 

EDIT: Martha, I just realized you might have been wondering about an appropriate WWE level in your OP. If so, hopefully this answers it.

[Murphy101]

We already have classically catholic for copy work. They have composition books that they copy all the memory work into and draw pictures and and so forth to go with those memory sections.

 

Is there copy work in the WWE4 and would it be necessary if they already have copy work in another subject?

 

I'm somewhat assuming middle schoolers are not expected to have copy work any longer?

[Colleen in NS]

Correct. We just have the WWE2 and WWE4 student books and don't need the small hardback book.

 

And I just want to reiterate what TarynB said. They aren't "student" books; they are student/teacher combo books. The small hardback book has nothing to do with them.

 

Sigh. I'm sorry if I've confused anyone.

[Colleen in NS]

Is there copy work in the WWE4 and would it be necessary if they already have copy work in another subject?

 

I'm somewhat assuming middle schoolers are not expected to have copy work any longer?

 

Copywork gives way to dictation somewhere in WWE 2, I think.

[Murphy101]

 

 

And I just want to reiterate what TarynB said. They aren't "student" books; they are student/teacher combo books. The small hardback book has nothing to do with them.

 

Sigh. I'm sorry if I've confused anyone.

 

No problem. I got it. They are like the story of the world activity guides. Teacher stuff up front, student stuff for the rest.

[Colleen in NS]

No problem. I got it. They are like the story of the world activity guides. Teacher stuff up front, student stuff for the rest.

Yup.

 

And I just edited my post #12 - a note for you at the bottom. sigh again. :D

[Murphy101]

I looked at the diagnostic thing and I'm pretty confident that WWE4 will be the right fit for that child.

 

I've already purchased the WWS1 teacher book and I think I'm only going to buy 1 of the student books. Possibly 2 for ease of sharing. But certainly not 3.

[TarynB]

I went looking for the WWE placement tests on the Peace Hill Press website and found them labeled "diagnostic evaluations", linked here.

 

Also, I found something I didn't know existed: you CAN buy just the student pages of each WWE workbook. This is the same student pages in the back of the WWE workbook. So if you already own a WWE workbook, use it as a consumable, and want to have another set of student pages for another student, here you go! I never needed this, since I'm just teaching one, but others may find it very useful. Available from PHP as hardcopy or PDF. I've never seen just the student pages at other sources like Amazon, though.

 

But bottom line, the WWE workbooks do contain both the teacher and student pages. :)

[happypamama]

We already have classically catholic for copy work. They have composition books that they copy all the memory work into and draw pictures and and so forth to go with those memory sections.

 

Is there copy work in the WWE4 and would it be necessary if they already have copy work in another subject?

 

I'm somewhat assuming middle schoolers are not expected to have copy work any longer?

 

My DD is a 5th grader, using WWE4, and there's no copywork, at least as far as I can tell (she's not finished many weeks of it, 7 or so). There IS dictation of several sentences. My second grader's WWE2 does have copywork one a day a week; he's on about week 10. The first day is a reading, and the student narrates (but doesn't write anything). The second day is a line of copywork from the reading; the third day, the parent dictates that same line to the student. The fourth day is another reading, narration, and dictation of part of the narration.

[PeterPan]

I can address your WWS1 questions. As WWS2 isn't even AVAILABLE (except in beta) and isn't slated to be in-print on amazon till Aug, meaning through PHP slightly earlier, I think you'd be happier if you started with WWS1. With an older student, I would double up lessons. We do, and my dd has typically been extremely pencil-phobic. This year she has finally blossomed. I think an older student can definitely handle cranking up the pace. We typically double up days 1 and 2. Day 3 is usually separate, but it's typically been kind of short. Day 4 is typically longer. That means I can schedule 5 days of work on her checklist, knowing if she has an off-day (the wind is blowing, flowers needed to be picked, whatever) she can still double up and get the assignments done. The copia exercises that start in the middle of the book are, well I can't say much nice about them. I like the theory, but they're redundant if you're doing certain grammar programs (like BJU) and just so rambly. (like my posts aren't, haha) So in the interest of expediency, I've given up on the copia. If you do that, again you are getting through it just a little bit faster.

 

I see no benefit to SKIPPING the WWS1 level. Instead I would give them that gentle ramp-up via level 1, let them get used to it, and just accelerate where it fits. Then everyone is happy. This week I actually had my dd doing *double* our double WWS1 assignments, because the child turned into Mary Poppins last week and kept talking about the wind blowing and needing to be outside instead of getting it done. No problem, so this week she had double. (Cruel and ruthless Mother.) She blinked and did it. That tells me that, when they grow into it, these older students can knock this stuff out. She's more confident and blossoming, so starting at the beginning and working faster has worked out well for us.

[Colleen in NS]

The copia exercises that start in the middle of the book are, well I can't say much nice about them. I like the theory, but they're redundant if you're doing certain grammar programs (like BJU) and just so rambly. (like my posts aren't, haha) So in the interest of expediency, I've given up on the copia. If you do that, again you are getting through it just a little bit faster.

 

And I can't imagine giving up the copia lessons. To me, they are another tool for the student to learn to add variety to her writing. They are all about manipulating grammar. It's like when I learned about subjunctive mood a few months ago - I thought, "How COOL is that, to have yet another way of expressing your thoughts!!!" I think of copia in the same way.

[brownie]

We've used all three levels of WWE across 3 kids. I bought the teacher's guide, hardback. I found it too much work. Then I picked up all the workbooks. It is much easier to let them write in these because of the copy work once a week. However, with the older children I just copied the sentence onto appropriate paper. Now we are in week 3 of WWS and I used bits of it here and there with my older son last year. I see nowhere that you would write in the book yet. It's all done on other paper but I do need the teacher's guide to teach effectively.

[Kendall]

All of what I say is related to WWS. I usually try to get by without teacher's guides, but I would not give up this Instructor Guide for anything! You definitely need a student text but I am buying only one and it is possible that I will have 3 in this book at once.

 

The first 10 Weeks of WWS1 are on the Peacehill press website (this fact sold me on WWS1-I could try it for free long enough to really fall in love with it!). So you can print what the students need to write on for the first 10 Weeks. You can also look at the kinds of writing in the book that are needed and the frequency though I'll address that some below.

 

I have one student text. My girls use a blank overhead projector sheet and a wet erase fine point marker. Many times the writing in the student book is underlining such as finding similes, etc. They don't need to refer back to it after the day's work is finished. Sometimes it is marking on a list of notes which notes the students wants to use in their writing. They could do that in pencil and erase, since it isn't a giving-away-answers type thing, or use the above method. This is working very well. Static electricity and the binding keep the clear sheet firmly in place, and they like having something different to do rather than always just using a pencil. You could use dry erase also, but it will tend to rub off more if you are storing the page in the book. You could probably use a page protector sheet somehow, as I'm not sure of the availability of overhead projector sheets. If this doesn't continue to work well then I'll buy another one, but it is such a big book and so much of what they do is done on the computer(their writings) or lined paper(their outlines).

 

This probably isn't best, but I am using WWS 2 beta version with a 9th grader who did not do WWS1. We are in week 18 and so far it is working. But he is a very strong student. And I have WWS 1 to refer to as needed (and I have a few times). With a high school student, I think you could do WWS 1 at a 2 week per week pace for a while. Maybe even 1 week in 2 days pace at the beginning.

 

HTH,

Kendall

[MomsintheGarden]

Martha - I have five children who are/will be using WWS. I ended up buying the print student book, the print Instructor's book, and a pdf of the student book. This has worked out very well for us. My children usually use the pdf, but sometimes they prefer the print book. I am old school and like the print instructor's book. And making printouts of the few things they need for marking is so easy from the pdf.

 

In the end, I can feel aboveboard in selling the print copies because we have a pdf of the consumable workbook.

[Mom0012]

I looked at the diagnostic thing and I'm pretty confident that WWE4 will be the right fit for that child.

 

I've already purchased the WWS1 teacher book and I think I'm only going to buy 1 of the student books. Possibly 2 for ease of sharing. But certainly not 3.

 

 

We're halfway through WWS1 right now and so far, my ds hasn't written in it at all because I want my dd to use it in the future. There is very little we have come across that would require you to write in the book. When we have had that situation, I've just made a quick copy of that page or just had ds use a blank sheet of paper.