How do you know God exists?

[Parrothead]

How can one ask a question like that and preface it with "take away scripture". That's like saying how do you know there's space, but remove the scientific means we have/had to find out.

 

Faith. And creation.

 

Let me ask, how do you know he doesn't?

 

 

Humans knew of God's existence long before there was Scripture. I think Juniper had a valid question.

 

 

Okay- I read further.

[DianeW88]

See I read this and it seems like it's a plan for regular people living regular,typical lives but where is the plan for those who suffer things we can't comprehend. Why are my three children given a fairly safe life with love and food and warm beds and other children are given a life in a Russian orphanage where they live in a crib and are never spoken too and weigh 10 pounds at 6 years old. Where is their chance to "to learn and grow and serve and find happiness ? What about a 2 yo who is abused all their life and then finally beaten to death. Why wasn't that child sent to a home of an infertile couple who would have loved it? I have plenty of room here for a few extra children who might otherwise be born into horrible circumstances -except I'm sub-fertile and only ended up with my three.

 

It seems like the LDS plan is only for those with middle class lives. What is the loss of a home or a job or a spouse compared to being tortured to death or blown to bits like the people of Syria. I was watching a documentary the other day where a 10 yo boy was weeping because his friend had just been shot to death and he kept crying out "Where is the world, when are they coming to help us" and yet the world is not coming to help him and he continues to suffer and suffer. Where is this kids plan of happiness? How does he get to find joy and meaning when all he sees is pointless deaths.

 

It seems to me that God is very selective of who he answers and cares about.

 

You know, I wish I had a perfect, easy answer for that question, but I don't. I do think that a lot of our problems on earth come from man's inhumanity to man. And I think people will be held accountable for that. I think perfect happiness won't be found on earth. I think that all we can do is our best, and that the Atonement of Jesus Christ will make up for all we (and our lives) are lacking (obviously I'm reflecting a Christian belief system that I understand not everybody accepts). I feel that God's justice and mercy are perfect, and that those who have suffered on earth will somehow have it made right in the afterlife. I believe our earth life is but a small part of our existence, and that the best is yet to come. I also believe that we do have a charge on earth to minister to others. To strengthen those who are weak, to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked. I take that responsibility seriously, and I try to do all I can within my sphere and abilities. Sometimes I can give my time and talents, sometimes I donate my money to others who can provide that help. Even Christ said, "The poor will always be with you." I think suffering is a condition of an imperfect world with even less perfect people inhabiting it. As far as a child in a war-torn country goes, he is the unfortunate victim of government and abuse of power. Of maniacal despots who value their own lives, wealth and comfort more than that of those around them. And I believe they will be held responsible for every ounce of suffering that occurs at their hands or because of their lack of compassion and their sins. I would add more, but I can't paragraph with Windows 8, so I don't want to make this completely unreadable.

[Parrothead]

 

I know there is a God because He has shown himself to me.

 

 

That is beautiful.

[Juniper]

 

Dancer, I don't mind giving a shot at replying to those questions, but I'm worried the thread will take a turn the OP does not desire. If you want to start a thread about these things, I will reply. I have no brilliant answers you've never heard before, but I do have thoughts about those questions. :)

 

 

Feel free! I have gotten some really good nuggets out of this thread already and have no issues with someone else benefiting in a way that is more customized to their present situation. :)

[VeritasMama]

'' 'Cause I prayed for strength

And I got pain that made me strong

I prayed for courage

And got fear to overcome

When I prayed for faith

My empty heart brought me to my knees

I don't always get what I want

I get what I need"

 

Some may find it hokey, but these lyrics are really moving to me. God has always answered my prayers, just not always in the way I would have liked, but always in a way that made me grow as a person. I've felt God's hand in my life, and I've experienced miracles in my life and so have other members of my family. I don't have proof of this, some could call the miracles we've expereienced coincidences, but I've felt God's presence enough times to believe in miracles. These types of experiences get me through the hard times, when doubt might start to creep in.

[gardenmom5]

It seems to me that God is very selective of who he answers and cares about.

No, that is not what we believe. we don't know why people have vastly different experiences. why does someone have the opportunity to live an affluent lifestyle with many opportunties for education and why someone else lives in the amazon jungle in a tribe little changed from how it lived 500 years ago. some of it is becasue of the free will of people and the corruption of those in power to distribute resources. - but not all.

 

We do believe we are judged according to our opportunties, - where much is given, much is *required*. some of those in the jungle who live ordinary lives of simply hunting and gathering and feeding their families may do a better job of what is actually important in life than those who have many opportunties for learning and creature comforts.

 

we also believe that mortality is very short in the grand scheme of things and what matters is the next life, when it *really* matters, everyone will receive what they are capable of receiving. some of those who lived a simple life of caring for their families, and the sick will probably receive more than those who lived a hedonistic lifestyle - no matter how many creature comforts they had in mortality.

 

I hope some of that makes sense.

[Guest]

I think the site was down all day yesterday(maybe it was just me?) So I am just now getting to all the answers. But, I would still like to know about the Bible.? How do we know that it isn't something just make up? Take away scripture and???????(Or not just the Bible, but any form of the Bible). How do we really know that was written by disciples? The answers given are interesting. As far as creation, why does there need to be a "creator"? How do we know that all of this has not been here for billions of years, and life just happened. As in scientific, not creator. And doesn't anyone find it strange that we think we are the only ones who exist on earth, with ALL the galaxies around us? We cannot be the only life forms. Can we? When we die, does anyone think it is like before we are born? Just nothing. Try to remember before you were born. You can't. I am struggling with that. I would hate to think that it is like it is before we are born. And do any of you think we only have lived once? In the billions of years, we have only had ONE chance at living? I have so many questions I could fill up a whole page. (Sorry to hijack the OP questions)

 

 

Feel free! I have gotten some really good nuggets out of this thread already and have no issues with someone else benefiting in a way that is more customized to their present situation. :)

 

Ok - don't blame me if it goes in some bizarre direction! :p

 

About the Bible - take my answer with a grain of salt, because I don't believe in the "inerrant, complete, inspired Word of God" view of the Bible. Historically, the Bible has stood up to many studies of authentication and comparison with ancient original manuscripts. Instinctively, there is something unique about the Bible. I have experienced some pretty remarkable understandings from studying and meditating on scripture. Countless others have as well. The Bible is unique among literary works for it's enduring popularity and extremely wide-reaching distribution. I do not personally discount the likelihood that some of the Bible is made up of traditional stories that may have no "holy purpose." I don't subscribe to the belief that the Bible has been specially protected from error or the error of it's authors and compilers. Still, I do believe there is something remarkable about the Bible and one does well to apply the teaching of Jesus.

 

About "creation" - To me it would be harder to believe that all the incredible excellence and processes of the natural world just happened to arise without a guiding designer. If someone does not wish to believe in a designer, that is their prerogative, but to me, it seems more likely and easier to believe in a designer than a lucky shot. If you had a boxful of tiny alphabetical letters, thousands of them, and you poured the box of letters on the floor, would they fall into an order and write a poem? That is how probable I think it is that chromosomes "figured out" that they should randomly mix genetic codes and assort themselves so that each human will have a unique genetic blueprint. How could such wonders possibly happen by chance? And that is just one teensy detail of a miraculous natural process that is occurring all the time, everywhere in the world.

 

About galaxies - I never rule out the possibility that there are other developed intelligent societies. The universe is pretty big, I've heard, so it isn't hard for me to imagine that intelligent life exists elsewhere. I'm not SURE that it does, but I don't discount the possibility.

 

About the afterlife - I personally do not believe the afterlife is "nothing." I fervently hope for a heaven because I have a baby girl that I hope is there. I don't think heaven is like earth, though and I think the parameters we are accustomed to have no meaning in the afterlife. Before you were born, you didn't have language and words to script memories, so I believe that is why we don't remember our lives before we had language. I think in the afterlife, there will be similar parameters. So, perhaps my soul will know that this is the soul of my daughter, but it's not like she'll be a baby, waiting for her mommy. I don't rule out the possibility that one essence may take physical form in more than one lifetime. I don't have a solid concept of that. Christian tradition teaches only one life, but I don't see any reason why that would be a necessity.

[Pod's mum]

We have some good friends who arrived as refugees and were children during the Rwanda massacas. Over the last couple of years I have gradually heard a fair bit of their stories. The faith in their families is very strong.

Personally it has been when things were bleakest and went on and on being bleak that I came to rely on God.

I have wondered if I can continue to 'walk with God' if things start to get easy? Is it something about being in extemis that strengthens that tie?

 

I mean that maybe those who are doing it so tough, particularly 3rd world type tough, really are God's chosen, rather than the 'have every-thing' people. They aren't demanding He fix things, but trust Him, whatever occurs, and continue trusting him during bad outcomes and after.

 

Does this make sense?

[Juniper]

We have some good friends who arrived as refugees and were children during the Rwanda massacas. Over the last couple of years I have gradually heard a fair bit of their stories. The faith in their families is very strong.

Personally it has been when things were bleakest and went on and on being bleak that I came to rely on God.

I have wondered if I can continue to 'walk with God' if things start to get easy? Is it something about being in extemis that strengthens that tie?

 

I mean that maybe those who are doing it so tough, particularly 3rd world type tough, really are God's chosen, rather than the 'have every-thing' people. They aren't demanding He fix things, but trust Him, whatever occurs, and continue trusting him during bad outcomes and after.

 

Does this make sense?

 

Yes, it does make sense, even if there is something inherently uncomfortable with the notion. Hmmmmmm.....something to ruminate on. Ugh, now I am going to have to think a bit, :D

[Juniper]

How is this for randomn detail that takes my breathe away. I am struggling with feeling like God doesn't hear me. Alone, afraid that my prayers go no where. I am struggling as our family is facing a change and change scares me. I worry that God will drop me, or that he is n't there at all. I have shared this here and a private FB group, that is all.

 

This article just came through my FB feed. If you have moment please read it is about a 5th century Icon. http://www.soundingblog.com/index.php/art-literature/iconography/looking-at-birds.html

 

The really interesting part. The Iconographer, is a member of my church. Sunday we exchanged smiles as he trailed his grandaughter through the narthex. Sometimes it is in the details. :)

[Pod's mum]

How is this for randomn detail that takes my breathe away. I am struggling with feeling like God doesn't hear me. Alone, afraid that my prayers go no where. I am struggling as our family is facing a change and change scares me. I worry that God will drop me, or that he is n't there at all. I have shared this here and a private FB group, that is all.

 

This article just came through my FB feed. If you have moment please read it is about a 5th century Icon. http://www.soundingb...g-at-birds.html

 

The really interesting part. The Iconographer, is a member of my church. Sunday we exchanged smiles as he trailed his grandaughter through the narthex. Sometimes it is in the details. :)

 

 

Wow.

What a beautiful blog entry and yes, just right.

 

Peace be with you.

[Juniper]

This was my favorite line and I am a bit stunned. It was as if someone was reading my heart and thoughts. And not some unknown person. Someone I chat with regularly. We talk art and Icons. This week we didn't, but wow! Just wow. From the article, " It is a How-To Gospel for knowing God is with us and God is in control and God will care for us."

[besroma]

Juniper, that is amazing.

[Elizabeth in MN]

I don't *know* that G-s exists, I just plain believe it.

[milovany]

This article just came through my FB feed. If you have moment please read it is about a 5th century Icon. http://www.soundingb...g-at-birds.html

 

 

Juniper, I loved this, thank you. We named our homeschool "Holy Ascension Preparatory School" because the message of Christ's ascension is such a powerful one. One of our priests spoke once about how Christ ascended ("left us") so that the Holy Spirit could come to us and be with us. Which makes me smile, when it comes to the blog post you shared -- how is the Holy Spirit usually depicted? As a bird.

 

:)

[Briva]

We have some good friends who arrived as refugees and were children during the Rwanda massacas. Over the last couple of years I have gradually heard a fair bit of their stories. The faith in their families is very strong.

Personally it has been when things were bleakest and went on and on being bleak that I came to rely on God.

I have wondered if I can continue to 'walk with God' if things start to get easy? Is it something about being in extemis that strengthens that tie?

 

I mean that maybe those who are doing it so tough, particularly 3rd world type tough, really are God's chosen, rather than the 'have every-thing' people. They aren't demanding He fix things, but trust Him, whatever occurs, and continue trusting him during bad outcomes and after.

 

Does this make sense?

 

 

Let me explain a circle of life I am seeing. As a daughter of a refugee, and living among our refugee family, I understand perfectly what causes someone to flee their homeland and leave everything behind. Sadly almost all of my refugee family left God behind, too; but I believe they had begun to leave God before communism hit. They were enjoying the 20th century innovations: electricity, cars, industry, etc. When communism hit they could not face hardship, so they left the country. You mentioned that 3rd world types are really God's chosen. When America faces similar 3rd world status, with our impending socialist agendas, who will be able to face the hardships? True Christians? I feel that God has turned his face away and this country has to answer for the over 50 million martyred unborn babies, the holy innocents, who have cried to God when their life was snuffed out. A harvest is coming to America, the chaff will be blown away. What you see in other countries like Rwanda, will happen here and only the strong in Christ will 'survive'.

[dancer67]

Thank you Juniper for allowing me to ask some questions and have others respond. It has given me more to think about, and make sense out of it. I also have a baby girl who died, and hope she is in Heaven with other family members. I would hate to think she is alone. I have checked out the book "A Case for Christ" and will be reading that. Thank you to all.

[acsnmama]

I know he's real because he has been at work in my life, all my life even though I pushed tried running away from him at times.

 

I have cried out to God before, but it was when it was good for me. God isn't a Sunday/Wednesday God, or a Easter/Christmas God. He should be worshipped daily, in everything. He's not a, "there when you need him" God. He should be first in everything.

 

I only say these things because only a Great and mighty God could have set me straight in my wrong paths of life. The Holy Spirit has literally changed my way of thinking even overnight. So, he has always answered my prayers, but like a few others said, not always in the way I wanted! Homeschooling is one of them. I am learning through him that I should "never say never." As God blesses me with the things I've always said I'd never do, like Homeschool, and drive a Minivan. Yet both of these things couldn't have been any clearer, short of being hit in the face with a brick. It was clear as day what I was supposed to do, and through following God, we have been greatly blessed.

 

I'm still learning how to know what God wants. "Martha, Martha, you are anxious about many things" describes me perfectly. Mary was sitting at Jesus' feet, listening intently to every word he spoke, while Martha was running around anxious, and frustrated that Mary wasn't helping her. Sometimes we're so anxious to do things on our own, that we cannot see the forest through the trees, answers to prayers could very well be right in front of us, yet we created our own fog in panic.

 

One thing I cannot dispute is God's word. Growing up, in a "Christian" home didn't do much for me. Church was my Christianity. I didn't read my Bible on my own time, etc. I may as well not have been a Christian at all, as I really didn't act like one. So as I've read the Bible in the last few months, I'm amazed. Absolutely amazed! Who would've knew that people back then experienced the SAME things I do? Who would've knew that the verses literally relate to me. I know it's "God's Living Word" but that has taken on a whole new meaning to me now. I had no idea how much the Bible related to me. And through his word, I know he is real!