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At what point do you just accept the fact that your child has an LD? My oldest has dyslexia and dysgraphia and he is 14. Long story short I do not see him making any gains, even with the tutor. I don't know that I or anyone else can take him any further as far as reading...writing on the other hand can be improved along with vocab. Spelling is still a disaster and reading is still below grade level. I know he needs to work on study skills. He has been working with someone his whole academic life with only small gains. I don't feel like he is ready for high school next year. I don't want to hold him back though because of his age. I am just so lost as to what to do with this kid. He is finally not fighting me on every little thing. He has really matured the last month as far as attitude so this is good. I think I am going to enroll him in co op next semester for a couple of classes. I think it will be good for him and learning time management. I guess I just need to vent. Thanks for reading!

 

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I think that there is a point where you switch from remediating to accomodating. I am not really sure what it is for every student, but I am thinking that it is somewhere in middle school (maybe later middle school?) And, of course, dyslexic/ dysgraphic students should always be accomodated, but what I am trying to say is that at some point you really have to focus on how the student is just going to get the work done with the skills they do have...and moving to independence/ self-advocacy.

 

So, how will your son do math when he is not secure on multiplication tables? Will he just use a multiplication chart for back-up at all times (my son just gave his up mid-last year at 12 because he had figured out a way that works for him). Will he just use a calculator at all times? These might be the conversations....

 

As far as reading, how will he get that done? Extra time? Text-to-speech? Audio? A human reader? Again, these are the conversations......And what can you put in place to help him? Do you need software? Hire/ have a human available to read? Check for text availability in LearningAlly/ bookshare?

 

Writing. Can he write small amounts by hand? Keyboard/ spellcheck etc for longer assignments?

 

I think if you are pondering sending him to school, it would be really helpful to talk to a counselor/ special ed teacher about how the school accomodates students? IEP/ 504? What plans do you need to be making?

 

:grouphug: These are big conversations.....

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If the LD is "hard wired" it is not going to go away. You can improve in some areas, or you can work around. Working around (accomodations) allow the student to be successful and continue to actually acquire knowledge over trying to imitate what other students can do. I don't abandon hope that DS might remember the times tables some day, but in the meantime we are moving forward with pre-algebra and making accomodations. We did the same with handwriting. If I waited until he could hand write an essay to study a topic, it would never happen. ;) Computer-based learning, scribing for DS, calculators, spellcheck, history and science DVD and online lectures, etc. Use the tools the student needs to succeed and enjoy watching him learn.

 

ETA: It was hard for me to consider accomodations at the outset. I had advice from an educational psychologist. She basically said it's not worth the battle, use a calculator.

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I really like RamonaQ's answer. I don't have anything to add to that, but I did want to share some of my own experience with you. I've never been a numbers gal. I just never understood math. I was hospitalized for 3 or 4 weeks when my class covered multiplication. There was a school strike when fractions began and although the school sent home envelopes of work, I didn't have help and fell behind. I never did catch up. I was a solid C or D student in math from then on. I took grade 9 math 5 times before I barely passed. I took grade 10 math 4 times. Where I lived, that's all you needed for a diploma. So when I failed grade 11 math the second time, something happened. Something triggered in my own mind. Why, oh why was I wasting time in math when I had all the life skills math I ever would need, and when I really did well in english and interior design? It was such a freeing thought: to focus on my strengths and never mind mastery of something that sought to enslave me! That was 1990, and I still feel free when I think of it! I have no regrets at all. It really does wonders for folks to, at one point, focus on the strengths and just move on. As the pp alluded to, we're not sure when that is for each child, but perhaps you're standing at the threshold of this transition.

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I would focus on reading and do accommodations for spelling and writing. I would also allow a calculator for math, especially if he understands the concepts but just can't memorize the tables. I agree that for some things it is just not worth the battle.

 

How does he feel about his own learning and his tutoring? It sounds like it is time to try something different for reading. My son is a lot younger than yours, but we did about a year of hard core phonics with no progress. I wasn't willing to continue doing the same thing if it wasn't helping. After that we took a break for awhile while I regrouped and researched. We did the Davis method which was what worked for us. I guess what I'm saying is that if what you are doing now is not working, and if it is making your son feel badly, I would stop. Even if you just take a break for awhile and do audio books, allow him to follow his interests, etc. Then perhaps you can try a different method or a different tutor. You said there wasn't anyone else to go to...what about phone consultations? There are some programs I am interested in for my son that I am not geographically near, but have been able to talk to some people by phone which has helped. I wouldn't continue with the same thing and expect different results. I would also try to involve him as much as you can in the decisions you make.

 

Are there any difficulties with vision (tracking, convergence), auditory processing, or any other sensory issues? Cognitive skills like working memory? Just wondering if those have been evaluated. Have you considered doing any more brain-based therapies with him instead of the tutoring? I am currently looking into Neuronet and Interactive Metronome because they are more fundamental brain therapies, not skill-based, if that makes sense. My son also has dysgraphia and no amount of practice is improving his handwriting. For him to make any progress he needs a deeper level of intervention. I think often we spend so much time working on the skills of spelling, math facts, and reading - when really more brain-based work is needed. I really do think the accommodations are fine. I just wanted to mention this in case you wanted to try some other things.

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I must admit that I have no experience with learning disabilities, and know very little about them. However, I think a few of the things I do could maybe help with your situation. Someone mentioned earlier to begin accomodating him and that is excellent advice! Let him listen to literature on audio. Then you can orally discuss it. I am purchasing science textbooks on audio so that my son can keep learning new science on a higher level, while getting the advanced vocabulary read to him. This sort of thing will help with his linguistic development. The more he listens to language the more language skills he may acquire of it. You could do this with every subject if you needed to, sometimes we do this with math and grammar. My son is spelling on what would be about a 6th grade level, but he is frustrated because he has a large oral vocabulary, and can't get that down on paper. So I have been working the issue with spelling rules and word stems. It has been gradually helping. A few weeks ago I found Uncovering the Logic of English, they also have a remedial curriculum, Logic of English Essentials. I'm only using the rules from the book because we don't have a reading issue. Maybe the curriculum would help with your situation though. If you were using audio and alternative methods for all the other subjects, you might be able to carve out a larger portion of your time working on reading and spelling, Until he can manage the other subjects on his own. You could also use DVD's, like Biology 101, Chemistry 101, and Physics 101. I would have him watching documentaries also, and if he has a particular interest in a certain subject maybe even some college lectures. I would also get a good keyboarding program and let him use the word processing system for writing. I think if you work around the obstacles his genius would bloom. Every kid I know that has any disibility at all usually has a particular gift.

 

I let my DS use a mutiplication chart for as long as he needed it, and he is allowed to use it as we move forward in math. Forget about memorizing everything as long as he is getting the concepts. Maybe over more time using this chart he will slowly internalize it.

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At the age of 14, perhaps you might consider the world that he will live in as an adult?

Where Dysgraphia will be talked about, as a problem that people had, when they used to write by hand?

When people used to draw words on paper?

Back when people used to have to remember how to draw each word?

But if they couldn't remember how to draw them, then they were called Dyslexic?

 

Also people used to do math in their heads?

If they couldn't do this, then they were called Dyscalculic?

 

 

But these are 'Disabilities' with the pen and paper methods of recording and transmitting information. Of doing math.

Where the 'Disability' was with the 'Method' ?

Yet this comes from a century, when in the earliest part, being Blind was defined as causing a reading disability?

Which was then recognized as a disability with a certain method of reading. That was resolved when provided with a method that suits them.

Just as the method of Sign Language, unlocked communication for the Deaf community.

 

Though the Digital age has unlocked a whole range of new Methods, that have resolved so many 'Learning Disabilities'.

Where it is absurd that a student with Dysgraphia is forced to write anything by hand?

Or even forced to use a keyboard, when speech to text software can be used?

Or that a student with Dyslexia isn't allowed to always use spell check and grammar correction software?

Though if a student with Dyscalculia is always allowed to use a calculator as a method of doing basic math?

They would never know math as a difficulty, let alone a disability?

Where it would simply be their method of doing math.

 

So that a neuropsych evaluation might rather be used to define the most effective Methods to learn?

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We are still using an OG tutor. I had hoped for more after 6 months. She still hasn't tackled sounding out words or writing. She uses a writing program called Languge Circle but she said that she doesn't have time right now to use it with him but I should buy it and use it with him.

 

We have an I pad and he loves the book share and Dragon app. He has kuzweil but he hates it and refuses to use it. He can type really well but refuses to do it. This is a sore spot between us because he turns in work that is written so small that I need a microscope to read it. He does ok with dragon but when he does paragraphs it is not written in proper form. He knows this but turns it in any way and of course that becomes another sore spot with me. He does no care for anything computer based as well. I have tried. He doesn't like it and won't use it. The thing is that I know that if he took the time to work with me to figure out kurzweil ( I learned how to use it so I could teach him) he could be light years ahead of where he is. He thinks in his head that he should be like everyone else that can write out answers and not use a reader to complete his work. He does like videos though so we do watch as many as I can get my hands on.

 

As far as sending him back to ps next his dad wants him to go and try it. I have dealt with this district before. They have a track record of pigeon holing the kids with LD and behavior problems into alternative ed. I have a huge problem with this. All it is is sitting kids in front of a computer. In 11th grade he wants to go to the career center. He wants to do something hands on after school (carpentry, gun smith, small engine repair).

 

I guess it is time for us to have a heart to heart. I need to know what his plan is. I am so afraid that he will have such a difficult time in school that he will drop out. If you start hsing in this district you had better plan on doing it for four years because out district will NOT accept anything that has been done for credit toward graduation. They really give hser a hard time.

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He's refusing his accommodations? Your DS must know that to complete any sort of voc training, a certain degree of legible writing and reading will be expected.

 

There's organization developed by a dyslexic college student that performs out reach with dyslexic high schoolers and logic aged kiddos. The name of the group escapes me. I believe I learned of it from reading The Dylexic Advantage, near the latter portion of the book.

 

SN students can very sensitive about their learing differences. I honestly feel that your DS would benefit from having an older successful dyslexic come alongside him and work with him. I'll try to find a link to the organization today when I have more time and hopefully get you that information.

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:grouphug: I don't have much advice to offer you - our son is younger than yours and you already have more experience on this path than I do. I will share though that our son was still struggling with addition facts less than a year ago, and other operations weren't happening at all. It was all a random jumble in his head. I had tried various workbook programs, computer programs, endlessly using manipulatives, letting him use a calculator thinking he would start to remember with repetition, and the story mnemonic method, verbal recitation, timed drills, and nothing was working. He was still struggling with 3+4, 2+5, etc. It was terribly frustrating and I think he had about given up on himself ever being able to learn math facts.

 

What finally worked for him was the Mastering Mathematics program by Letz Farmer. I bought it from Rainbow and started him at the very beginning of it. It starts with a very small collection of facts, which they practice, practice, practice, and then it builds on that in a very methodical way, in tiny increments, with tons of practice for each new set of facts. His progress in math this year has been amazing. I am sharing this here in case it ends up helping with your son's situation, or somebody else's.

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Yes, he refuses his accommodations. I have tried talking with him about it but to no avail. He sees it as him being dumb and no one else has to do it. I have no idea where he gets this. His cousin is in ps in the same grade and told he has to type out papers. They just got iPads in his school district and he enjoys many of the same accommodations that my ds gets and he doesn't even have an ld. I just don't get it. He did tell me that he can't stand it when his brother gets done with his work first bc he always finished last when he was in school....that was 4 years ago! I think he sells himself short, trust me we have tried to boost his confidence. He went to camp for kids with dyslexia and he learned a lot but what he took from it most of all is that it is what it is and there is nothing you can do about it. They had successful members of the community there so it wasn't like there wasn't any role models there. I can sympathize with him but darn its time to get off your but and try something new like using your access to accommodations!

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Concerning typing/writing, upper level classes almost always require papers to be typed. Kids learn to use MLA format for their compositions. Any coursework done online also requires everything to be typed. This is the way of the world when you get into higher level work. Essay exams in college are still often handwritten, but otherwise, everything else is done on the keyboard. There is absolutely no reason why your son should resist typing as a pride thing relating to need for accommodations. Keyboarding is THE method of communication for most people in the work world.

 

Your son does need to spend time doing activities which feed and develop his strengths. If he is a hands-on learner and would love to do a trade as a career, give him time now to begin learning those skills! You can continue to develop academic skills while nurturing strengths.

 

I know you had a hard time coming up with an O-G tutor who is near enough to you, but it doesn't sound like this person is aggressive enough or experienced enough to deal with your son's needs. Can you remind me of your son's current reading level? What level of books can he read with reasonable comprehension? What about his spelling level?

 

My thinking about math is, absolutely, let him use a calculator for basic calculations as long as he understands the underlying concepts. The only place I preferred my student not to use a calculator is when he was working on reducing fractions. Letting him use facts charts when working with fractions can help him get around the math facts issues. What math is he currently working on? I always used math facts workarounds & calculators for my students who struggled with memorizing math facts because I didn't want to hold them back from learning concepts, even though they just couldn't seem to develop automaticity in fact recall. FWIW, my son finally began to develop some automaticity at about 16.5yo.

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Have you tried behavior therapy for the refusals? It sometimes does help to have a professional tell them that others use these tools. Sorry it is so difficult. I have a friend whose son had a similar attitude and I really had no good advice. Mine won't do a lot of things that I know would help and it really wears a mom down.

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I am not sure about his reading level or spelling. Last time he was tested it was somewhere around 5th grade spelling is more like 2 or 3rd grade. That was in July. I feel that his ability has dropped bc he uses book share so he really doesn't have to read out loud for me anymore. This is something that will change when we start next mon. He will also be typing again and there will be more focus on writing. The tutor told me not to worry about writing right now (along with a handful of things) and I have noticed that he is losing those skills. I feel like everything that he has worked for is gone, the tutor says it is because he never had them to begin with. I will let him use a calculator and chart. One battle at a time. Right? It's nice to see you back Marie, I hope you and your family is doing well.

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Please post if you decide to try Neuronet, Interactive Metronome or other brain-based therapy. Aside from doing Orton-Gillingham tutoring now and Handwriting Without Tears by the summer with my 11 yo, I'm not sure what I should do next.

Are there any difficulties with vision (tracking, convergence), auditory processing, or any other sensory issues? Cognitive skills like working memory? Just wondering if those have been evaluated. Have you considered doing any more brain-based therapies with him instead of the tutoring? I am currently looking into Neuronet and Interactive Metronome because they are more fundamental brain therapies, not skill-based, if that makes sense. My son also has dysgraphia and no amount of practice is improving his handwriting. For him to make any progress he needs a deeper level of intervention. I think often we spend so much time working on the skills of spelling, math facts, and reading - when really more brain-based work is needed.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an update on our situation after being sick for two weeks! My dh and I have decided to break up with our tutor. My ds has regressed instead of moving forward. I feel like all that hard work that we did is all lost at this point. The tutor told me last week (I drug myself out of bed and drove for 3 hours) that my ds doesn't remember some of the rules that he knew all along (I kindly reminded her that we were just getting back into the swing of things). I told her some of the new things that we are trying because we had a serious discussion about how he will graduate. She told me that putting him back into school would be a mistake because he will never be able to keep up and he WILL end up in special ed again. Ok I really didn't need to hear that. I feel like I am sitting at square one again. I don't know what else to do with him. He is reading at about 5th grade now and spells at about 3-4 grade. He can listen to books and comprehend them pretty well. Math is really difficult for him. I thought about doing Jump Math with him. I am open to advice........

 

Some days I wish I could get fired!

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Oh and he is doing Teaching Textbooks pre algebra lesson 16 and failing it. Basic math (that we have went over the last 2 years) is what he is doing right now... He is doing no english because this is supposed to be covered by the tutor who hasn't had time to work with him on sentence structure as planned. She told me about a program call the Language Circle and that I could buy it and use it with him.

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Not sure if this will help, but my son has visual processing issues and is and auditory learner. Math will end up being a disaster if I skip too many days or let it slide for a while. So we do math Mon/Wed/Fri - 1 whole lesson of Saxon 7/6 each day. Spiral is the only thing that works for him. What got him here was Times Tales (and then again after a year when we let things slide a bit) and drills. We spent all last summer on the 4 basic math skills. Every day he did between 30 and 50 problems. Mastering the basics (addition, subtraction, multiplication, & division) is all we focused on. I don't care how many months or years it took. Now the prealgebra comes a lot easier to him. My son really hates any online learning, btw. He does best and is happiest with strictly pencil, plain workbook, and scrap paper. We used Teaching Textbooks and after a month he used only the book. I listened to everyone hating Saxon, but it ended up being the best thing.

 

Our schedule has become one subject a day. We go slowly. I aim for full understanding before moving on. We do 1 full lesson of Hake Grammar 6 on Tuesdays. I read the new lesson to him, he reads the problems out loud to me and gives the answer either out loud or written right in the book (abbreviated). Thursdays we use a book called "A Workbook for Dyslexics". We do a full lesson of reading tons of words out loud and writing down dictated words and sentences. It helps a lot. We also do Story of the World 1 on Thursdays. I read a short chapter to him (or we "buddy read", taking a paragraph each) and I ask him all the questions and use the maps in the activity book. On Saturdays we do Apologia General Science. I read to him, he writes answers to questions in the Student Book, we do an experiment, and he writes the findings down. I'm not looking for perfect spelling or neat handwriting. He asks me how to spell certain words, and I tell him. Asking him to just sound it out has never worked. He chooses a few books at the library once a week - anything - and he reads silently for 10-minutes a day as well. I don't ask him for a narration or a report. As far as creative writing, I have him do one or 2 things per month. Some handwritten, some typed, such as an essay, a blog post, journal, book report, poem, haiku, letter, etc. A few sentences are fine for now. Sometimes I'll ask him to tell me about some new interest he has, but he has to present it to me as a speech using index card prompts that he creates himself.

 

I am not expecting academic independence for a while. Keeping things light and stress-free is the only way he's receptive to learning without getting frustrated. He spends the rest of the day being insanely creative and productive, so I'm not really too worried. I focus on and facilitate his strengths and interests. I don't think he'll be a good fit for public high school but I'm seeing endless possibilities and opportunities for him as a homeschooled teen.

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You mentioned JUMP math. DS and I used it for 6 weeks at the beginning of the year and then scrapped it. I ordered the 6th grade books from Canada and the JUMP at Home Grade 6 from Amazon. If you choose to explore JUMP, you will need to go to their website, set up an account, and download the fractions materials. They give you the fractions booklet with teachers guide to use prior to starting the program....I simply didn't find the program helpful. I eventually ordered MUS and whipped out the c-rods to demonstrate fractions. I am a very reluctant MUS user; however, it seems to be working. We are going very slow.

 

Grammar...Never heard of the program that you mentioned. We use Winston Basic. He does this daily and it takes 5-10 minutes max, learning to parse sentences. WB doesn't cover everything, so we use portions of EG 6 for clauses, subj/verb agreement, appositives, and capitalization, We cover maybe 5 questions.

 

I concentrate mostly on vocabulary and reading comprehension. How to answer a science or history question correctly with a full coherent sentence. How to parse a book, break down a chapter and paragraph, and basically pull information apart.

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Suziesnowflake- I'm responding just so you know I'm thinking about you. I've been pondering your latest for a few days. I think it is a good thing that you have split with your tutor. I don't think she was doing what your son needed done. However, knowing your limited local options, I'm feeling a little stumped on what to recommend. Because your son is at an awkward place in adolescence, he will probably be more responsive to a highly competent, authoritative 3rd party instructor than he will be to you. The challenge is that there doesn't seem to be that individual available in your area.

 

One thought is an online instructor for writing. I don't have a particular recommendation, but it gets around the problem of location.

 

I agree with Heathermomster on using Winston Grammar and Easy Grammar for grammar work. This is what worked best for my son. I actually used the Easy Grammar Ultimate, which is set up like the Daily Grams. My son did best with this setup, where topics get revisited often to help cement learning.

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This is what worked best for my son. I actually used the Easy Grammar Ultimate, which is set up like the Daily Grams. My son did best with this setup, where topics get revisited often to help cement learning.

 

 

Marie, how many times did you go through Winston Basic? DS is 7th grade, and I'm starting to sweat next year. Would EG Ultimate be enough grammar for 8th grade or should I use EG Ultimate and Winston Grammar Word Works?

 

I'd appreciate any input..Thank-you...

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Because your son is at an awkward place in adolescence, he will probably be more responsive to a highly competent, authoritative 3rd party instructor than he will be to you. The challenge is that there doesn't seem to be that individual available in your area.

 

One thought is an online instructor for writing. I don't have a particular recommendation, but it gets around the problem of location.

 

 

 

A dyslexic homeschooling mom I know with at least 3 dyslexic kiddos (a mom of 5), recommends an online writing program called Write At Home. I have never used this service so have no experience with it. Writing needs to be explicitly taught...Not sure how this program plays out.

 

DS sits with an O-G one hour per week with 2 other boys and uses IEW for writing.

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Thanks so much ladies! I feel really bad about firing our tutor. He is going to start co-op next week, I think that will help. He is excited about doing sign language. I am going to look into trying to find an older guy to help tutor him. I know that I am not going to give up and I hope he will not too. Thanks again ladies!

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Marie, how many times did you go through Winston Basic? DS is 7th grade, and I'm starting to sweat next year. Would EG Ultimate be enough grammar for 8th grade or should I use EG Ultimate and Winston Grammar Word Works?

 

I'd appreciate any input..Thank-you...

 

I am guessing that WG Word Works was developed after my son got past middle school. I don't remember seeing it before. Looking at the description, it seems like many of those things are covered in EG Ultimate at some point, but the Word Works likely has more practice in one go for each concept. It might or might not be overkill to do both. We did Winston Basic in middle school (7th grade-ish, I don't precisely remember now). Then we did Winston Advanced in early high school.

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A dyslexic homeschooling mom I know with at least 3 dyslexic kiddos (a mom of 5), recommends an online writing program called Write At Home. I have never used this service so have no experience with it. Writing needs to be explicitly taught...Not sure how this program plays out.

 

DS sits with an O-G one hour per week with 2 other boys and uses IEW for writing.

 

 

My middle daughter did several classes from Write At Home- Comp. I, Comp II, Essay Writing, and Research Paper Writing. I would say she had a mild to moderate disorder of written expression, though she wasn't diagnosed as such. By the time she started the program as a 10th grader, she was comfortable writing a paragraph but wasn't very comfortable going beyond that. She was fairly good, however, in understanding a basic beginning-middle-end structure to a paper. Her difficulties were very much in the realm of idea generation and elaboration. These developed nicely (but not without some weeping and gnashing of teeth) using WriteatHome.

 

I looked at it several times with my son in mind but his written expression difficulties were much more severe and I never felt like he could be successful when he was in early high school. I actually think it could be a good program at this point. He used IEW for a time in middle school in a couple of different co-op classes. IEW's clear emphasis on structure is what he needed, and I actually wish I had had access to an experienced tutor who could have taught him one-on-one using IEW. I'm just not comfortable enough with the program to lead a reluctant learner like ds through it.

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I looked at it several times with my son in mind but his written exp<b></b>ression difficulties were much more severe and I never felt like he could be successful when he was in early high school. I actually think it could be a good program at this point. He used IEW for a time in middle school in a couple of different co-op classes. IEW's clear emphasis on structure is what he needed, and I actually wish I had had access to an experienced tutor who could have taught him one-on-one using IEW. I'm just not comfortable enough with the program to lead a reluctant learner like ds through it.

 

I'm right there with you. It would take some massive "girding of the loins" to compel me to teach writing. I'm sitting through the IEW class with DS, so that experience has provided some insight. I hope to be prepared when the tutor is no longer available.

 

Suzie, teaching my child to write has been the most difficult portion of homeschooling. The writing itself robs study from other subjects, and I hear complaints about writing from every mother of a dyslexic that I know. The student doesn't take edits from mom very well. The student's effort require a great deal of energy and directly targets their weaknesses with language and executive function. I've been reminded repeatedly to be patient....

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