Reya Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Daughter desperately wants to start violin. While I think Suzuki is great, we are NOT going to put in the time required for it do be successful with a 4-y-o. Soooooo....what books that are music-reading-based do you think start low enough for a 4yo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Do you play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Is it possible to do something like Kindermusik and tell her she is preparing for violin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hi, I'm a violin teacher and mom to a 5yo who started violin at age 3 1/2. Violin takes a parent dedication to be successful at so young an age. Really, there will need to be some at any age, but especially so in the beginning. I would do something Kindermusik-y or a general music appreciation curriculum until she is older. Even with my non-Suzuki students, I will often assign something that needs supervision (for them to make sure they are playing with a straight bow, etc) The more parental help, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hi, I'm a violin teacher and mom to a 5yo who started violin at age 3 1/2. Violin takes a parent dedication to be successful at so young an age. Really, there will need to be some at any age, but especially so in the beginning. I would do something Kindermusik-y or a general music appreciation curriculum until she is older. Even with my non-Suzuki students, I will often assign something that needs supervision (for them to make sure they are playing with a straight bow, etc) The more parental help, the better. :iagree: The learning curve on string instruments is really steep at the outset--the student needs to think about intonation, bow hold, bowing, violin hold and general posture. Adding in note reading right at the beginning will only make those things harder, and a student that young will need help practicing anyway. I like the suggestion to try something like kindermusik or maybe piano lessons, as preparation for later doing violin. Piano is a bit easier to get started on, and she could learn music reading skills that could later transfer to violin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Another thought Reya--if Suzuki is a possibility in the not-too-distant future, you could start by getting her the CD for violin book 1 and having her listen to that every day. Then when she does start she would be prepared to progress more quickly. That's probably your best bet if you're trying to make this less time/parental involvement intensive--just have her as well prepared as possible before she starts. Beginning violin is just not something a 4 year old--or a 7 year old--is going to be able to do without a lot of hand holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You might look at The Violin Book. I've heard good reviews about it, and I have the first couple of books, but I never got around to renting a violin in Ariel's size, so we haven't used them yet. The look solid to me, and I played for about 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I learned beginning piano before violin. As you could surmise from my screen name, violin is my primary instrument. Having learned piano, however, was a HUGE boon to me when I began violin. I already knew how to read notes, music theory made a LOT of sense (because it's easy to SEE on the piano). If you're not going to do Kindermusik or something similar, you could get the Faber's Adventure series and start her on piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uff Da! Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Do you play? Yup. And no-go for Kindermusik. She wants the real thing, like her brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Daily 10-15 min practice is fine. To do "true" Suzuki requires WAY more, and I did start out with that with my DS. If I have to hear the Suzuki CD One. More. Time., I will break it. Just sayin'. My DS WOULD NOT hold his violin correctly under my instruction. Not for 5 min straight. That was a major factor in my sending him to an instructor, with whom his ears magically seem to work! DD has a better shoulder position with her violin NOW than DS does, sadly. I show her where to put it...she puts it there. I show her how to put her jaw in the chin rest...she does. Why is that so hard for my son, I'll NEVER understand (especially since he got the bow hold fine......). DD wants piano AND violin, like her brother (who is also doing both because he demands it, *sigh*). I don't really play piano, but do read music and I can start her on the very earliest of the Piano Adventures books just fine. I'm thinking of getting her to do just piano for a while, then adding violin when she's a bit older. Piano can't be sized for her, but just starting out, it's a much less steep learning curve right at the very beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Daily 10-15 min practice is fine. To do "true" Suzuki requires WAY more, and I did start out with that with my DS. If I have to hear the Suzuki CD One. More. Time., I will break it. Just sayin'. My DS WOULD NOT hold his violin correctly under my instruction. Not for 5 min straight. That was a major factor in my sending him to an instructor, with whom his ears magically seem to work! DD has a better shoulder position with her violin NOW than DS does, sadly. I show her where to put it...she puts it there. I show her how to put her jaw in the chin rest...she does. Why is that so hard for my son, I'll NEVER understand (especially since he got the bow hold fine......). DD wants piano AND violin, like her brother (who is also doing both because he demands it, *sigh*). I don't really play piano, but do read music and I can start her on the very earliest of the Piano Adventures books just fine. I'm thinking of getting her to do just piano for a while, then adding violin when she's a bit older. Piano can't be sized for her, but just starting out, it's a much less steep learning curve right at the very beginning. Reya, have you read Dr. Suzuki's books? It's been awhile but I don't remember him recommending more than 10-15 minutes for a young child. I certainly wouldn't expect more than that from a 4 year old. The things I like about Suzuki are 1) it gets children playing quickly; 2) music is memorized so they can focus on tone, intonation, posture, etc.; 3) Once a song is learned it is continuously reviewed, giving the child a repertoire of songs they can play well. Those are all elements I try to use in teaching my own children and others, whether we use Suzuki repertoire or not. Actually, my favorite way to start a student out is to teach them to play a song they already know well and enjoy singing--Christmas Carols are perfect for this. If you're tired of the Suzuki CD's and repertoire and you have enough background to teach you dd yourself, and she's dying to play, why not just choose a couple of simple songs and teach them to her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hi, I'm a violin teacher and mom to a 5yo who started violin at age 3 1/2. Violin takes a parent dedication to be successful at so young an age. Really, there will need to be some at any age, but especially so in the beginning. I would do something Kindermusik-y or a general music appreciation curriculum until she is older. Even with my non-Suzuki students, I will often assign something that needs supervision (for them to make sure they are playing with a straight bow, etc) The more parental help, the better. I agree. My 4 yo spends 15 minutes a day practicing, and has. 15 minute weekly lesson. She may start group lessons, too, next semester in Suzuki. There's a company...Little Musicians? That has Pre-Twinkle materials, but really Suzuki is the best of all we've tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Reya, have you read Dr. Suzuki's books? It's been awhile but I don't remember him recommending more than 10-15 minutes for a young child. I certainly wouldn't expect more than that from a 4 year old. The things I like about Suzuki are 1) it gets children playing quickly; 2) music is memorized so they can focus on tone, intonation, posture, etc.; 3) Once a song is learned it is continuously reviewed, giving the child a repertoire of songs they can play well. Those are all elements I try to use in teaching my own children and others, whether we use Suzuki repertoire or not. Actually, my favorite way to start a student out is to teach them to play a song they already know well and enjoy singing--Christmas Carols are perfect for this. If you're tired of the Suzuki CD's and repertoire and you have enough background to teach you dd yourself, and she's dying to play, why not just choose a couple of simple songs and teach them to her? Yes, I have. He recommends listening to the CD for several hours a day and a NUMBER of 10-15 minute violin sessions per day. I want her to have a good hold and bowing technique before adding fingerings. Not great, but decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 I can do pre-twinkle informally with her. There are no Suzuki instructors around here, though, for later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifra Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Reya, I do not play violin, but I did have my son take violin lessons for a few months. Some people suggest G'dae Music for teaching young children violin. I have not used it, but it seems like if you already know how to play violin, you could use it to teach your 4 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yes, I have. He recommends listening to the CD for several hours a day and a NUMBER of 10-15 minute violin sessions per day. I want her to have a good hold and bowing technique before adding fingerings. Not great, but decent. OK, my memory is faulty--sorry. I tend to be a "take what I like and leave the rest person"--so it makes sense to me to take what works from Suzuki and not worry about what doesn't work for my family or my students. Honestly, I doubt more than a tiny minority of American Suzuki students spend hours every day practicing and listening to recordings as beginning students. I think I really haven't understood what you are looking for though. If you're not interested in teaching fingering yet, I'm not sure what you were looking for in a reading based program. Or you want a program that really focuses on position and bowing and then adds note reading and fingering? Or you plan to teach the position and bowing yourself, then transition to a program? There just isn't that much out there in the way of programs designed with a young learner in mind. The Violin Book that someone mentioned does teach posture and bowing rather explicitly in the first book--I don't think left hand is addressed until the second book. That may or may not be helpful depending on whether you want an outside source for exercises. The books progress slowly, so in that sense they could work for a young student. I don't feel like they have a ton of meat, though. The Sassmannshause (did I get that name right?) series looks interesting, I haven't seen it before--it might possibly have what you are looking for. For teaching note reading to a student who can play a bit I like the I Can Read Music books by Joanne Martin together with Evelyn Avsharian's Songs for Little Players books. I hope you find something that works for you. Maybe a few more people will chime in--I'm always looking for new ideas and programs. The G'DAE program someone referenced looks intriguing, I'm off to look into it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverFamily Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Just thought I would mention this book. It is based on the suzuki method but seems to break it down into smaller steps for the parent. It has been helpful for me in finding ways to break down some of the steps of learning/practicing the suzuki songs for my Dd. Just as a note though I don't personally play the violin (I do play the piano) so we did (currently trying to find a new one as ours is moving) have our daughter take from a violin teacher. Thought I would mention it in case the book helps at all. It also comes with a CD with songs to play along with. However, if you decide to do the suzuki method I recommend getting the regular suzuki CD as well (I still prefer to have my Dd listen to the regular one, but this books CD adds a little more variety). HTH ETA: I tried unsuccesfully to find a good sample of the first book (1A). But I was able to find a good sample of book 1B. Here is the link in case you are interested in looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Since you play and since she doesn't struggle with following your instructions for how to hold the instrument, then do take a look at Ebaru's The Violin Book. She has some very cute things to help young kids remember the correct hold, and the teaching tips might give you some fresh ideas. My dd was more like your son when she was 6, so then I waited until she was 10, taught her for 3 years & got her a teacher this year. For her, waiting was good, but it sounds like your daughter has a natural bent towards it and is ready now. Hope it goes well for you! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Hi Reya, I had a chance to look over the first Sassmannshaus violin book today and was thought about you. I actually do think this book would work with a motivated four year old, especially if your dd is reading already (I think she is?) The book has large notes, which I like, and the pages are not too busy. The first several pages are just open strings, with half notes and quarter notes introduced. Other notes are introduced a few at a time, starting with the "cuckoo's third" (open E down to C# on the A, for example). By the end of the first book all of the first position notes have been introduced on G-E strings, as well as 8th notes and dotted halfs, several rests, and slurs. If I were using this exclusively for teaching I would want the student to memorize some (but not all) of the exercises and songs so they could really focus on tone, intonation, bowing, etc. The book doesn't give much guidance on these, but leaves the teaching to the teacher; if you can guide your dd in those areas, you could probably make this program work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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