AS child who refuses to write and doesn't work independently - a venty advice request

[dmmm]

It seems like a common thread among many Aspergers kids, huh?

 

I started homeschooling my dd this year because her anxiety in school was just too much. She was shutting down and refusing to do work so it was coming home anyway. Or she would find a reason to be sick, and spent much of her time in the clinic. We had her on ADHD meds for a bit, and she was doing well academically, but it made her more anxious and aggressive. The trade-off wasn't worth it.

 

For the most past, things are going well. I allow her lots of reading time. She loves non-fiction and will spend hours in the library reading books on subjects that she is interested in. But that is it. Everything else I need to sit on top of her. And it is still a big fight for writing anything. We are currently using IEW and Daily 6-Traits Writing. She doesn't mind it so much if I am writing for her. After a huge, horrible, blow-up fight day, I talked to one of her counselors, and she told me that with the way my dd holds a pencil (we did two years of OT and are working on typing), she would relax on the writing and continue to transcribe. I feel like I am doing such a disservice to my child.

 

When I hear of other kids doing outlines for history independently, I could only wish my dd did that! I feel like I am failing her, but then I know that school was failing her in so many ways too.

 

I will do a search in threads to see what has worked for your Learning Challenged/Differential Learning kids, but commiseration and especially any hopeful posts are extremely welcome now. I am feeling very alone today. :(

 

DD - 9 dx'ed with Aspergers, GAD, and ADD-inattentive

[bluedarling]

Relax! She's only 9. My boys weren't even reading very well at that point, and definitely not writing. Something connected around puberty, and they were ready to start writing. I wouldn't push the writing too much. Try not to compare...I know its hard, but it will just wear you down. Look instead at what she did learn the last year, and focus on that. (OK...hard to do...I know.) The school told me my son would never write...he actually writes really well, now, but still has a hard time planning what to write...and is extremely slow. At 15yo he's doing WWS1 (outlines)....definitely was not doing that at 9yo!! I'd just try to have fun with writing at that age! Make it something easy and not to be dreaded (and if that just means scribing, consider yourself lucky!) While there may be kids doing history outlines independently at 9yo, I wouldn't say that is the norm! Remember, your child has other gifts than writing! We always had writing planned at that age, but it never happened because it was such a struggle...the fact that you are accomplishing writing of any kind is wonderful! Give yourself kudos! (and your daughter, too.) Then, relax!

[dbmamaz]

My 9 yo has no dx's and he is only STARTING to write this year, and really, only free writing. I'm ok with it. I figure i would rather that he learns to love writing than that he is writing when he is 9. I dont want to make it a fight. My older kids wrote earlier - they also spoke and read earlier. So he's just following his own rhythm.

 

You might want to check out Bravewriter for some ideas on how to work with your child in their stages of writing.

 

But you know, some of us are just very different. i like to remember how many of the great names in history were poor students when young, or self-educated later in life. Just because your child learns differently than other kids does not mean she learns WRONG. Honor your child, trust your child - and of course, keep pushing just SLIGHTLY past the comfort zone . . not enough for screaming, just enough for a little whining!

[dmmm]

You are my 2 most favorite people on the planet now. :001_wub: Thank you for the support and the normalization for me, and especially for her.

[placeofgrace]

Hang in there! I was in your shoes a few years ago. My ds has made a lot of progress in the last few years. I started him on IEW when he was about 8 or 9. We took it very slowly. After SWI-A, we moved on to the theme books. Fairy Tales and Myths, All Things Fun and Fascinating, and this year we are doing Ancient History. He has improved sooo much. (He's 12 now.) Now he knows the process and can do the assignments mostly independently. My ds does prefer to type rather than write.

 

Also, my ds has a dx of pdd-nos and anxiety. We have also been through OT, speech etc.

 

Best of wishes to you and your daughter!

[hsmom2011]

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[hsmom2011]

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[EKS]

It's ok for you to scribe for your daughter. She is only 9. I *promise* that by the time she is in high school, she will be writing on her own.

[IsabelC]

Are you making any progress yet??

 

I am tearing my hair out with a similar issue. My 9yo basically refuses to write anything unless it is dictated to him. His handwriting is not good, his spelling is very poor, but mainly it's just his attitude. He won't/can't think of what to write. Not only will be not do anything creative, but he won't write a couple of sentences on what he did over the weekend, or what was in a book we've read either. Literally the only writing he will do voluntarily is putting something he likes on the shopping list, or writing me a note asking for a privilege of some kind.

 

We tried backing off giving him more time to develop the skills, and we tried insisting on some writing every day. We tried encouraging him gently, and we tried forcing him (two hours of screaming tantrum for one sentence - what fun). Nothing has helped.

 

Now that he has started school, he is expected to do Journal writing. His teacher tells me that he sat and did nothing for the entire 20-30 minutes the kids were meant to be journalling. So I had to spend the next three days making him do three sentences for his journal at home. Another thing to add to the afterschooling list - LE SIGH.

[Greta Lea]

Sounds just like my son at that age. He is now a senior and aspires to be a *writer*!!!

 

He still does very little pen/pencil writing. He types pretty much *everything*.

 

At the age of 9, I did dication with him almost daily (started with one short sentence). Since he loved reading, I always used living boooks, even for science. He orally narrated to be daily from at least one reading.

 

By the time he was 12yo, he was able to do a longer dictation passage (maybe 50 words...can't remember exactly) and began doing one written narration (one *typed* paragraph) a week while still doing daily oral narrations.

 

The only outlining he's done is the key word outling the way IEW teaches. He doesn't use al the stylistic techiques IEW teaches, but has found the way IEW teaches how to write multisourced papers helpful. BUT that was something we didn't tackle until 11th grade.

[Pen]

My son has dyslexia not AS, but for what it is worth, he was not writing much at all at age 9, and things done then, in retrospect, were not very productive either in actuality or because they left bad feelings about writing that then had to be undone.

 

I consider independence and self starting in learning to be its own goal that I am gradually working toward with my ds. That your 9yo is already self motivated in many non-fiction reading areas, is fantastic, congratulations to both of you! That is a very green spot on your side of the fence that others who have children doing things you are envying could just as well be looking over and envying you for. It is easy to notice what others are doing and miss the greatness that you yourself may have going in your own homeschool.

 

I separate the ideas of writing as composition from the mechanics of writing like handwriting. Also I try to keep straight on what is a goal and what is a tool to get there--and what is needed and what not. My son does not do outlines except as it was required as part of IEW--he may never do them. Frankly, unless he himself decides he needs them, who cares? Outlining is potentially a useful tool--but not one that everyone uses, nor needs to.

 

We did some IEW, which produced good results, but with great dislike, finally leading to refusals and shut downs (no, not only AS kids do that). I think it is a good program, but it did not fit my own particular kid very well.

 

Bravewriter went better, I can now really see in retrospect that it made a big difference in becoming a willing writer--it was not as obvious at the time that it was helping as much as it was, but as time has gone on it is clearer and clearer that for him that was the program that really helped--but at age 10 when he was ready for it. And if you see the thread about finding a formal composition program, you will see that others had exactly opposite experiences, it seems.

 

He has been gaining typing skills via Typing Instructor Platinum for Kids, which is helping him move past the stage where I have to scribe. I also considered Dragon for him, but decided it would be best if he learned how to write one way or another, if he could, even if eventually he uses something like Dragon. I gave up on cursive. Printing is legible, but slow, so typing is definitely helping. It is a such a fun program he plays it as a computer game most days and his overall (corrected for errors) speed came up to 24 words per minute in just a few weeks of using this program. (eta) That was fast enough to allow him to get a lot down without undo frustration. His state writing test that will come soon will be typed--everyone will do that as it has become the recent standard pracctice for any place that has computer access ...they even have a spellchecker as part of the program for the essay part of the test, and a checklist available for before submitting that reminds the children of some of the 6 Traits and to go back and check their punctuation! It's not an accommodation now, but rather seems to be the direction things are going--doing it in pencil on paper or orally would now be the accommodation. I hope that by the time he reaches SAT stage, that too may end up with the essay typed. If not, well, maybe he'll be faster with pen and paper by then--it is odd actually how writing seems separate from other manual skills. He is otherwise unusually adept with his hands. Apparently it is part of a language/letters issue, not a fine-motor issue.

 

He is now learning to use 6 Trait rubrics on short essays, but that was after learning to get something, anything, onto paper by using Bravewriter, and how to get it into basic units of sentences and paragraphs. He does not do especially well with any workbook type writing, in terms of it actually improving his abilities rather than in terms of providing busywork--didn't try Daily 6, but I expect it would have applied there too. He writes poetry now, and likes to do so. It was his way of dealing with freewriting. Not something I would have expected to happen back when he was 9 and super reluctant about writing.

 

I keep required school to a minimum--1.math, 2. writing, 3. history/geography or science-- 1 hr each daily, plus now a short time on spelling and grammar. My ds does not read non-fiction on his own much, unlike your daughter, so this is required work time--my hope would be that eventually it too would be more self motivated. He does do some experiments/demos for science on his own though), He is allowed to get ahead and have time off from these as he wants it also. I let him follow his own interests in (fiction) reading and so on, as much as possible.

[kerenlynne]

DS is Dyslexic with Dysgraphia no AS. We did OT for years for the Dysgraphia and other fine motor skills. We have used dicatation, keyboarding, oral work and have finally transitioned to Dragon this year. Now at 16 he is currently using a hybrid format of keyboarding and dragon when writing. For what it is worth- I think I would really keep writing to a minimum at age 9. Imagine forcing someone with a broken leg to get up and run in PE class. Eventually the person with the broken leg may be able to run in PE but it might take some physical therapy and extra time for them to catch up with everyone else. Same with kids with a writing disability-they have to be conditioned and strengthened before they can even begin a skill that is normal for so many other kids. At least that is what I tell myself when I am discouraged about DS and his progress. Don't let yourself get caught up in that comparison of kids which can sometimes be hard to do on the forum. So many families have such accomplished kids(which is so awesome ) but the purpose of these forums is really about how to make sure that your child has a well trained mind-it is not about achieving a specific accomplishment by a specific age. Good Luck!

[AK_Mom4]

At age 10, DS could not get three sentences down on a piece of paper. Getting him to write two sentences was *possible* if you didn't mind a major melt down.

 

Fast Forward a few years - DS17 consistently gets As on his 5-10 page essays (public high school). His English teacher used one of his papers as an example for her freshman class this year of "how to write a great essay".

 

I wish I could take all the credit, but really it was mostly just maturity and sticking with it. I transcribed for him, limited the physical writing to what he could produce, and got him started early with typing.

[laundrycrisis]

DS is Dyslexic with Dysgraphia no AS. We did OT for years for the Dysgraphia and other fine motor skills. We have used dicatation, keyboarding, oral work and have finally transitioned to Dragon this year. Now at 16 he is currently using a hybrid format of keyboarding and dragon when writing. For what it is worth- I think I would really keep writing to a minimum at age 9. Imagine forcing someone with a broken leg to get up and run in PE class. Eventually the person with the broken leg may be able to run in PE but it might take some physical therapy and extra time for them to catch up with everyone else. Same with kids with a writing disability-they have to be conditioned and strengthened before they can even begin a skill that is normal for so many other kids. At least that is what I tell myself when I am discouraged about DS and his progress. Don't let yourself get caught up in that comparison of kids which can sometimes be hard to do on the forum. So many families have such accomplished kids(which is so awesome ) but the purpose of these forums is really about how to make sure that your child has a well trained mind-it is not about achieving a specific accomplishment by a specific age. Good Luck!

 

Wow, this is beautifully said !

 

At age 10, DS could not get three sentences down on a piece of paper. Getting him to write two sentences was *possible* if you didn't mind a major melt down.

 

Fast Forward a few years - DS17 consistently gets As on his 5-10 page essays (public high school). His English teacher used one of his papers as an example for her freshman class this year of "how to write a great essay".

 

I wish I could take all the credit, but really it was mostly just maturity and sticking with it. I transcribed for him, limited the physical writing to what he could produce, and got him started early with typing.

 

This is SO encouraging !!!!! Thank you for sharing it !

[brownie]

Same as some others. My Asp likes to compose but hates to write, even in math. However, my ds10 is almost worse! and he has no diagnosis of anything. he just doesn't like to write. Brownie

[brownie]

Same as some others. My Asp likes to compose but hates to write, even in math. However, my ds10 is almost worse! and he has no diagnosis of anything. he just doesn't like to write. Brownie

[nowheregirl]

One learning specialist we saw described a "learning pyramid." At the base is physical ability, then sensory ability, then processing ability (where we struggle), then academic ability, then writing ability at the very top. She explained you start at the bottom and shore up any issues, if necessary. It takes a while to get to written expression. 14 yo DD has dyslexia, dyscalculia, and APD and just a month ago was able to take NOTES from her reading without someone standing there telling her "what to put" for the first time. Ever. It was a cause for celebration indeed!

[Pen]

One learning specialist we saw described a "learning pyramid." At the base is physical ability, then sensory ability, then processing ability (where we struggle), then academic ability, then writing ability at the very top. She explained you start at the bottom and shore up any issues, if necessary. It takes a while to get to written expression. 14 yo DD has dyslexia, dyscalculia, and APD and just a month ago was able to take NOTES from her reading without someone standing there telling her "what to put" for the first time. Ever. It was a cause for celebration indeed!

 

Congratulations on your celebration!!!

 

Not always that way though. I know lawyers who are disabled (muscular dystrophy, for example) such that they cannot do the physical part of writing--yet they could attend university through law school and do the necessary written expression parts, with someone else, or nowadays a computer program to scribe. There may be different "learning pyramids" for different situations and individuals. I think writing is not very one size fits all even for those without learning or other challenges. Add on some differences and challenges and it may be that what works for one dc may not be at all the ticket for another.

[nowheregirl]

Yes, it's definitely a small victory. I think in terms of physical ability she meant that if you lack any abilities that you get/learn accommodations, e.g., braille, before moving up the pyramid. Written expression (whether you put pencil to paper, type it up, or dictate it) is the highest form of learning as it demonstrates not only did you memorize the material, but you in essence can teach it back or discuss it in a meaningful way. I write for a living and it has been a real struggle trying to teach something that comes so naturally to me. :bored:

[crazyfordlr]

My odd has CAPD and really really struggles with writing. We just got an iPad and she's been dictating to Siri. There are lots of mistakes that she has to correct, but she's really proud of herself.

[dmmm]

Oh, you all rock so much! These posts are so helpful.

 

I was surprised to re-read my post today,but so thankful to see how far my dd and I have come.

 

We had a total meltdown in our household over other things. I went to my dd's social group psychologist for help. She turned the session on me and wanted me to get more time to myself. And then all your posts really hit home. I let go and took a breath. I feel so. much. better.

 

We are doing AAS (which she was screaming about) and IEW. We are doing them sloooooooow. She is typing her spelling words (her choice) and not fighting me on IEW anymore. Our biggest reason for success now (I think) is tons of breaks with free time. If she wants to read her comic books or play minecraft, fine. We set a time limit and go back to school. I also watch her for attention waning. If I am losing her, I push for an extra five minutes, and then I stop. It's not worth the fight if she isn't getting anything out of it anyway!

 

Things are flowing much better. There still are fights, but on those bad days, I remember why I took her out of school, and I remember that I livve in FL, so we can show *progress* very easily. :)

[Pen]

Oh, you all rock so much! These posts are so helpful.

 

I was surprised to re-read my post today,but so thankful to see how far my dd and I have come.

 

We had a total meltdown in our household over other things. I went to my dd's social group psychologist for help. She turned the session on me and wanted me to get more time to myself. And then all your posts really hit home. I let go and took a breath. I feel so. much. better.

 

We are doing AAS (which she was screaming about) and IEW. We are doing them sloooooooow. She is typing her spelling words (her choice) and not fighting me on IEW anymore. Our biggest reason for success now (I think) is tons of breaks with free time. If she wants to read her comic books or play minecraft, fine. We set a time limit and go back to school. I also watch her for attention waning. If I am losing her, I push for an extra five minutes, and then I stop. It's not worth the fight if she isn't getting anything out of it anyway!

 

Things are flowing much better. There still are fights, but on those bad days, I remember why I took her out of school, and I remember that I livve in FL, so we can show *progress* very easily. :)

 

 

Nice sometimes to get a sense of progress over months instead of looking at the day to day!

 

In re: IEW since I still like it, but son does not, where are you on the slooooow? And how did you get the fighting you to stop?

[mama2cntrykids]

Oh boy! My aspie ds just turned 10 yesterday and he writes like a Kindergartner. I'm serious, his 1st grade sister writes better than he does, and I'm only talking about penmenship.

 

Honestly, we haven't done ANY writing curriculum yet. I'm planning on starting him next year (5th grade) with a some type of writing program. I just have NO idea what. I feel it's important for him to at least START something though.

 

It's only started getting easier with him recently. For 1st/2nd grade, it was HORRIBLE. I couldn't even get him to write TWO words. I'm not exaggerating. Last year, he would do a couple of sentances for me (with copywork only). This year, it's better, but still not up to par with his peers.

 

I'm not stressing over it too much anymore, honestly. He has a hard enough time getting through his math/language arts stuff everyday. The poor kid gets so overwhelmed/anxious/stressed about just those two subjects. I'm trying to just chill. It'll work out.

 

I hope sharing our story has helped you at least a little. Blessings!

[dmmm]

In re: IEW since I still like it, but son does not, where are you on the slooooow? And how did you get the fighting you to stop?

 

I gave up on having her try to write at all with it. I have her underline three key words, and then I write it for her. That is all we will do that day. Then when I can tell she is in a more mellow, *fresh* mood, we will do the sentences for the paragraph, I transcribe. The next day we will do the dressups. I then type of the final draft.

 

We just got to the more than one paragraph section (The Boy Who Cried Wolf). I split the paragraph over days. It usually takes us a week to finish one lesson. I even split the video instruction up if I see that she is getting antsy. I try to lighten the mood by making jokes about the assignments and making fun of Mr. Puweda by speeding up the video. Anything that will make it more fun for her. I help a ton too. Lots of spoon-feeding in the hopes that she will find it easy.

[Guest lakenelson]

My 8 yo son narrates stories to me instead of writing them out, as was recommended by the Charlotte Mason approach. He narrates them in excellent written English, not conversational at all, which I believe is the result of listening to substantive audiobooks such as Lord of the Rings and Story of the World. He likes typing and detests holding a pencil...so when it's time for him to write independently he will probably do so by typing. I don't see any problem with this - most adults only type now.

 

I think First Do No Harm is an important guiding principle with homeschooling. If we force them to do something they clearly detest - and Lord knows AS children can be strong willed and determined - then it can only backfire. I make the most progress with my son when he is inspired. Forcing him to do something is the kiss of death - the assignment will go nowhere.

 

My son has a blog and he gets so excited about posting to his blog, releasing his work to the public, creating art for the stories, sharing the blog with friends. Currently I type as he narrates and he watches as I'm typing. He will also back up and tell me how to edit a sentence - so he is learning to write as adults now write rather than as his friends in the classroom are writing (with pencil, from start to finish, no edits possible).

 

My older son is profoundly gifted academically and sailed through a college prep school. Every child is different. Our job is only to help them along on their path. With an AS child, inspiration is the way. If we force it, they will win any contest. Keep things happy and light to the extent possible. How awesome that your child loves to read! Everything academic flows from that. There is no need for worksheets and no need even for writing at her age. God Bless.

 

PS My stepfather is a professor very known in his field and very productive in getting his work published. The first draft of all his written work is via dictation because he is physically unable to type. The university pays for a typist due to his disability. If it can work for a top guy in his field then it can work for my 8 yo and anyone else.