Renthead Mommy Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 My son goes to scouts at an LDS church. I was invited to join a bookclub by the den leaders wife. I didn't make it last month so have not been yet, but am hosting it for December. My question: Is LDS church the one that doesn't drink coffee? Actually is it a coffee thing or a caffeine thing? Do they drink decaf? I don't generally buy soda, and it being a December evening I wouldn't normally go with cold things, instead have coffee and tea. Normally at that time of night I'd make decaf coffee or have decafe tea. I don't want to make a whole pot of (decaf) coffee and being the only one drinking it, plus have nothing else to drink. And if it's a caffeine thing can I serve chocolate? What about Kahlua? I've got a great Kahlua dip recipe as well as my winter dessert specialty is a Kahlua chocolate cheesecake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 No coffee, not even decaf, and no tea, except herbal (although you might have people who were uncomfortable with that too). It's probably best to skip the Kahlua too. Hot chocolate is great though. And I'm sorry it's tricky to feed Mormons. We don't make eating at social events very easy. But no one should be offended or upset no matter what you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hot chocolate and hot apple cider would be good. I would look for another dessert though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 No coffee, tea, or alcohol. Herbal tea (like peppermint) is generally okay by most members. The suggestion for hot chocolate or apple cider is a good one :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 My son goes to scouts at an LDS church. I was invited to join a bookclub by the den leaders wife. I didn't make it last month so have not been yet, but am hosting it for December. My question: Is LDS church the one that doesn't drink coffee? Actually is it a coffee thing or a caffeine thing? Do they drink decaf? I don't generally buy soda, and it being a December evening I wouldn't normally go with cold things, instead have coffee and tea. Normally at that time of night I'd make decaf coffee or have decafe tea. I don't want to make a whole pot of (decaf) coffee and being the only one drinking it, plus have nothing else to drink. And if it's a caffeine thing can I serve chocolate? What about Kahlua? I've got a great Kahlua dip recipe as well as my winter dessert specialty is a Kahlua chocolate cheesecake. Here is my (non-LDS) understanding of the situation, which I would appreciate being corrected if I'm off on any points. The LDS hold to certain prohibitions as outlined in a book of revelations to Joseph Smith called Word of Wisdom. The prohibitions included consumption of wine, strong drink, tobacco, and "hot drinks." "Hot drinks" is the cause of a certain ambiguity, but it is the tradition of the LDS Church that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea. Some (not all) LDS would look at "the spirit" of the injunction and conclude that caffeine is out. Others would not make that "leap" to a ban on caffeine, and—while eschewing coffee and tea—might consume mass quantities of Mountain Dew or chocolate. My understanding is this decision is seen as one of individual conscious to be guided by the purpose of living a heathy life. Kaluha would be "out" as a "strong drink." A question I have of LDS members is if there might be a tiny sub-set of members who take the prohibition on "hot drinks" so broadly that they would extend it beyond coffe and tea to include any hot drink (like hot cider or hot cocoa)? This I do not know. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Here is my (non-LDS) understanding of the situation, which I would appreciate being corrected if I'm off on any points. The LDS hold to certain prohibitions as outlined in a book of revelations to Joseph Smith called Word of Wisdom. The prohibitions included consumption of wine, strong drink, tobacco, and "hot drinks." "Hot drinks" is the cause of a certain ambiguity, but it is the tradition of the LDS Church that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea. Some (not all) LDS would look at "the spirit" of the injunction and conclude that caffeine is out. Others would not make that "leap" to a ban on caffeine, and—while eschewing coffee and tea—might consume mass quantities of Mountain Dew or chocolate. My understanding is this decision is seen as one of individual conscious to be guided by the purpose of living a heathy life. Kaluha would be "out" as a "strong drink." A question I have of LDS members is if there might be a tiny sub-set of members who take the prohibition on "hot drinks" so broadly that they would extend it beyond coffe and tea to include any hot drink (like hot cider or hot cocoa)? This I do not know. Bill It's always possible, though I don't know any. There are some people who won't use real vanilla extract because it contains alcohol. I'll see if I can find any recent comments about it. We tend to go with the latest statement by our prophet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Here is my (non-LDS) understanding of the situation, which I would appreciate being corrected if I'm off on any points. The LDS hold to certain prohibitions as outlined in a book of revelations to Joseph Smith called Word of Wisdom. The prohibitions included consumption of wine, strong drink, tobacco, and "hot drinks." "Hot drinks" is the cause of a certain ambiguity, but it is the tradition of the LDS Church that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea. Some (not all) LDS would look at "the spirit" of the injunction and conclude that caffeine is out. Others would not make that "leap" to a ban on caffeine, and—while eschewing coffee and tea—might consume mass quantities of Mountain Dew or chocolate. My understanding is this decision is seen as one of individual conscious to be guided by the purpose of living a heathy life. Kaluha would be "out" as a "strong drink." A question I have of LDS members is if there might be a tiny sub-set of members who take the prohibition on "hot drinks" so broadly that they would extend it beyond coffe and tea to include any hot drink (like hot cider or hot cocoa)? This I do not know. Bill This explanation explains the nuances of the Word of Wisdom nicely. Also, there was a clarifying statement from the LDS Church recently that specifically said the Word of Wisdom doesn't mention the use of caffeine. I haven't noticed that making a difference for anyone one way or the other though. As for your question, Bill, I have been vaguely aware of people who do go to the extreme of not drinking anything hot, but that is pretty weird and very uncommon. But those people would probably be fanatic in many ways, not just their drinking habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Ok, I can't find anything talking specifically about caffeine. It's always been up to the person (I guess, technically it all is). Most LDS I know wouldn't have a problem w/ hot chocolate or cider. Most wouldn't drink Kahlua. Caffeine specifically isn't mentioned in the Word of Wisdom, but some people have strong opinions on either side of the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 This explanation explains the nuances of the Word of Wisdom nicely. Also, there was a clarifying statement from the LDS Church recently that specifically said the Word of Wisdom doesn't mention the use of caffeine. I haven't noticed that making a difference for anyone one way or the other though. As for your question, Bill, I have been vaguely aware of people who do go to the extreme of not drinking anything hot, but that is pretty weird and very uncommon. But those people would probably be fanatic in many ways, not just their drinking habits. Thank you for clarifying. I had wondered if there might be a tiny sub-set who would take this to the to the most literal extreme, even if it was outside the traditional understanding. Am I correct in thinking that on the other extreme that there is no one who thinks one can get away with an Iced Frappacino (since is is not "hot")? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 As I understand it, Kahlua is a coffee-based liquor, so it would be doubly out as both coffee and alcohol. The caffeine thing is sort of individual. Coffee and tea are mentioned specifically, but we don't know that it's *because* of the caffeine (both contain other compounds that could be considered harmful. Really, it comes down to an obedience issue). You'll hear individual members speculate about it, but you'll also see individual members (myself included) drink the occasional caffeine-containing soft drink. It's important to note that LDS believe in ongoing revelation, and what the current Prophet/Leaders say stands over what may have been said in the past. Current revelation declares "hot drinks" to be coffee and tea. You'll come across the occasional fanatical LDS who won't drink ANYTHING hot, but it's also interesting to note that the LDS cannery sells hot chocolate mix. My pantry is currently stocked with an assortment of hot chocolates, herbal teas and Pero :) Like Amira said, those you come across who eschew ANY hot drink or chocolate are an exception and are likely fanatical in other ways and would likely be fanatical in any religion they belonged too. They are not representative of LDS as a whole :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I must have bad Mormon friends b/c they all drink coffee :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Thank you for clarifying. I had wondered if there might be a tiny sub-set who would take this to the to the most literal extreme, even if it was outside the traditional understanding. Am I correct in thinking that on the other extreme that there is no one who thinks one can get away with an Iced Frappacino (since is is not "hot")? Bill Maybe not an iced frappacino, but coffee ice cream? That's not always pushing the line too much. Depends on your friends. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Maybe not an iced frappacino, but coffee ice cream? That's not always pushing the line too much. Depends on your friends. ;) It depends on the "coffee-flavoring" too, some of which is wheat-based and not at all coffee-based, as I understand it. I personally just avoid it all, but I am aware of other members who feel okay with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Have any tried to justify "beer" on the grounds that it is not "wine" or (arguably) "strong drink." Has there been revelation on this point? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Have any tried to justify "beer" on the grounds that it is not "wine" or (arguably) "strong drink." Has there been revelation on this point? Bill Sure, I've heard that about beer, but that's getting pretty nit-picky and you're not going to find many (any) Mormons who think you can drink beer, and, for example, go to the temple. The official interpretation is no alcohol. But you'll always find people who like debating the point. Here's the most recent official statement as found in the online newsroom. I don't think the official interpretation is considered revelation, and this statement doesn't claim it to be. "Church revelation spelling out health practices (Doctrine and Covenants 89) does not mention the use of caffeine. The Church’s health guidelines prohibit alcoholic drinks, smoking or chewing of tobacco, and “hot drinks†— taught by Church leaders to refer specifically to tea and coffee." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well I wasn't serving Kahlua, so it wasn't going to be Kahlua and coffee drinks. The Kahlua is baked in the chocolate cheesecake. Or it goes in the sour cream and brown sugar as a dip to go with fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well I wasn't serving Kahlua, so it wasn't going to be Kahlua and coffee drinks. The Kahlua is baked in the chocolate cheesecake. Or it goes in the sour cream and brown sugar as a dip to go with fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I don't drink cider or hot chocolate! But that's because I really dislike drinking hot things, esp. if sweet. I like drinks with ice in (hey, I'm from Bakersfield...when I was a kid we put ice cubes in our milk at dinner). I cannot understand why my kids want hot chocolate every time the temperature dips below 70 degrees. :ack2: I did know an LDS family once that had some near beer in the fridge. I was 14 and pretty shocked! But you know it's quite likely that they had it there for a friend, too--we always had instant coffee stuff in our fridge for my grandmother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well I wasn't serving Kahlua, so it wasn't going to be Kahlua and coffee drinks. The Kahlua is baked in the chocolate cheesecake. Or it goes in the sour cream and brown sugar as a dip to go with fruit. I understood what you meant, but I'd still recommend you skip it for a group of Mormons. Even if it were baked in the cheesecake, you'd still run into problems with its being from coffee beans, at least for many Mormons. Of course, there is the possibility that no one would even know. But can I admit that cheesecake sounds really good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well I wasn't serving Kahlua, so it wasn't going to be Kahlua and coffee drinks. The Kahlua is baked in the chocolate cheesecake. Or it goes in the sour cream and brown sugar as a dip to go with fruit. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid your LDS guests won't eat the dip or the cheesecake then. Even if they're not too worried theologically about some Kahlua baked into a cheesecake, they probably won't find the flavor to be pleasant. I wouldn't anyway, Amira might! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 No coffee, not even decaf, and no tea, except herbal (although you might have people who were uncomfortable with that too). It's probably best to skip the Kahlua too. Hot chocolate is great though. And I'm sorry it's tricky to feed Mormons. We don't make eating at social events very easy. But no one should be offended or upset no matter what you make. Hot chocolate is ok? Why the proscription on hot drinks. I thought it was about the caffeine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hot chocolate is ok? Why the proscription on hot drinks. I thought it was about the caffeine. The Word of Wisdom doesn't mention caffeine. The term "hot drinks" is taught to refer specifically to coffee and tea only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hot chocolate is ok? Why the proscription on hot drinks. I thought it was about the caffeine. See post #10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought there was a big difference between Mormon and LDS? As in 'PLEASE don't confuse us with them!' type of thing? It seems the terms are being used interchangeably in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Why are coffee and tea prohibited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live2Ride Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought there was a big difference between Mormon and LDS? As in 'PLEASE don't confuse us with them!' type of thing? It seems the terms are being used interchangeably in this thread. LDS is more official/preferred (The CHurch of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). Mormon is a common more well known term for the LDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought there was a big difference between Mormon and LDS? As in 'PLEASE don't confuse us with them!' type of thing? It seems the terms are being used interchangeably in this thread. Nope, they are interchangable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought there was a big difference between Mormon and LDS? As in 'PLEASE don't confuse us with them!' type of thing? It seems the terms are being used interchangeably in this thread. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is our official name. LDS is a common nickname, as is Mormon, but both really are just nicknames for the members or the church. The official shortened version our church's name is The Church of Jesus Christ. There are a number of different sects that are descended from the church Joseph Smith organized, including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which can legitimately be called Mormon. Generally only the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is referred to as the LDS church and its members as LDS. Personally I am happy to be called LDS or Mormon and I identify with both names. Not all members of my church feel the same way and much prefer to be called LDS rather than Mormon. But if you hear the term Mormon, it's most likely to refer to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints simply because it's by far the largest Mormon denomination. For practical purposes, LDS and Mormon are usually interchangeable, although certainly not always. I hope that made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought there was a big difference between Mormon and LDS? As in 'PLEASE don't confuse us with them!' type of thing? It seems the terms are being used interchangeably in this thread. Haha, no it's more please don't confuse mainstream Mormon/LDS with the FLDS (fundamentalist)/Warren Jeff's/polygamist type break-offs :D. (FTR polygamy is an excommunicable offense in the mainstream LDS church). Mormon is just a nickname :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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