BatmansWife Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I have looked at the Apples and Pears website so many times over the past few years. I was thinking about it again. But, when I look at the samples, I really don't understand the approach. It looks like tracing and copying. I know in the TE you will dictate words and dictation sentences for them to spell, but I see no real teaching at all in the TE (maybe there is and I'm not seeing it...I'm mostly looking at A). I understand that it seems to break the words into morphemes....but, what am I missing here? Why is it raved about? Have any kids gotten confused with trying to listen to morphemes instead of syllables? Has anyone tried it and not liked it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemommy Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't understand it either, except that it's working better for my dd after using aas1. It's a LOT more wiring, which she normally hates, but so far, she's doing better with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't understand it either, except that it's working better for my dd after using aas1. It's a LOT more wiring, which she normally hates, but so far, she's doing better with it. Oh, that's great to know that you are using it......but you don't understand it either. :smilielol5: It's good to hear your dd is doing better with it that AAS. Are you in A? Maybe someone else will explain it so we both understand it. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyBean Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 :lurk5: I am trying to decide between apples and pears or Logic of English. My 10 year old is a visual learner and will memorize her spelling words but forget them a week later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I have been using it with DS for a year and a half and I don't really "get it", but so far it is the only thing that is really working. There is a lot of repetition which I think helps. Morphemes took a lot of getting used to, since I had never heard of them until this curriculum. In the last few weeks I have seen DS make some great advances in taking spelling he is learning from this into his other schoolwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Not to muddy the waters, but... If you have an extremely visual learner, you may want to look at a spelling approach that incorporates pictures and "stories", which cement vowel sounds and spelling patterns directly into long-term memory -- a mnemonic approach, such as the Stevenson Blue Spelling Manual. see Stevenson Blue Spelling explanation here see article on mnemonic instruction here see Stevenson Blue Spelling ordering/price here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer WI Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't know if I get it, but it's coming in the mail tomorrow. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 :lurk5: I am trying to decide between apples and pears or Logic of English. My 10 year old is a visual learner and will memorize her spelling words but forget them a week later. I'm not sure I have any advice. It's a tough call. I have been using it with DS for a year and a half and I don't really "get it", but so far it is the only thing that is really working. There is a lot of repetition which I think helps. Morphemes took a lot of getting used to, since I had never heard of them until this curriculum. In the last few weeks I have seen DS make some great advances in taking spelling he is learning from this into his other schoolwork. Hmmmm...another user who doesn't really get it...yet it seems to be working. How curious. Makes me want to try it to see if I'd feel the same way (although, I'd really rather get it/understand it). Not to muddy the waters, but... If you have an extremely visual learner, you may want to look at a spelling approach that incorporates pictures and "stories", which cement vowel sounds and spelling patterns directly into long-term memory -- a mnemonic approach, such as the Stevenson Blue Spelling Manual. see Stevenson Blue Spelling explanation here see article on mnemonic instruction here see Stevenson Blue Spelling ordering/price here Never heard of this. I'm not sure if I like this idea or not. Looks like it would be more confusing. Are you using it? I don't know if I get it, but it's coming in the mail tomorrow. :thumbup: What level, or levels, did you order? Can you post about it once you get a chance to look it over and give us your impression? I don't mean you have to post tomorrow.....but, the next day would be nice....no pressure or anything. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer WI Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 AprilMay, I ordered the whole kit and kaboodle. Levels A - D for my mildly dyslexic ds10 who has LOTS of trouble with spelling. LOTS. I've tried so many programs and ideas. I feel like this is my last hope. Maybe it's really not, but I feel that way. I've heard so many good things about it, with so many positive results. I had to try. I'll keep you posted about his first week or so using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence1978 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Add me to the list of those who don't really understand it. I understood AAS much better. It made sense to me. If I had to make sense of A&P it would be that there does seem to be a certain amount of pattern finding. Words do get introduced with similarly spelled words. That and the amount of built in review. My DD is doing better with A&P. Her spelling is improving. She is mild-moderate dyslexic. We went through all of book A and are about 14 levels into book B. I'm a bit torn because DD is beginning to HATE spelling time (not entirely sure why), but her spelling is improving. I'm trying to decide if we should take a short break for sanities sake or not. LOE also looks very interesting in that spelling rules are somewhat discovered and there are the game ideas. My DD might like that, but I'm not sure I want to try it out due to cost and the failure of AAS here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Another one here who doesn't quite understand it because my brain does not see spelling this way, but it does seem to be working. We were using AAS (through level 3), and ds was struggling (he hated doing spelling and it wasn't sticking). We started in the middle of Book A since that is where he tested, and we are on our last lesson of book A. It does seem to be working, although I have no idea how... We'll continue into book B, but I have Sequential Spelling at the ready just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenn&charles Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm using Apples and Pears and while I don't understand how it works...it IS working. I switched over from AAS after using several levels because Otter wasn't retaining any of the spelling patterns or rules. Apples and Pears was a last ditch effort that's successful so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Lori D., on 19 November 2012 - 03:00 PM, said: Not to muddy the waters, but... If you have an extremely visual learner, you may want to look at a spelling approach that incorporates pictures and "stories", which cement vowel sounds and spelling patterns directly into long-term memory -- a mnemonic approach, such as the Stevenson Blue Spelling Manual. see Stevenson Blue Spelling explanation here see article on mnemonic instruction here see Stevenson Blue Spelling ordering/price here Never heard of this. I'm not sure if I like this idea or not. Looks like it would be more confusing. Are you using it? Yes, we used it for DS back in 6th grade when all else had failed for spelling for him. I believe the combination of teaching in a way he could finally grasp it AND that the spelling areas of his brain FINALLY started to click in and begin to develop were what made this possible. MANY students just are not able to spell until 12-14yo. Our DS is mildly ("stealth") dyslexic, and his weakest areas were spelling and writing. He is strongly a "right-brained" visual spatial learner. As a result, his weakness is sequential processing and parts-to-whole learning -- everything that spelling is all about -- while his strengths are random processing and whole-to-parts learning (often appears to intuitively see patterns and "the big picture"). We used the visual picture and story ideas from the Stevenson Blue Spelling Manual as a springboard for coming up with our own visual images/storytelling ideas to help connect directly to the right hemisphere of the brain. You may find Diane Craft's articles on this topic to be helpful in explaining how this process works. Here is a brief article on right brain learners and spelling, and here is her suggestion for daily daily spelling practice. Here's a great past thread on helps for visual-spatial learners and spelling, and here was another great past thread on Spelling Help Needed. I highly recommend reading through both of those threads, as there are many great ideas from others who have struggling spellers. In the second thread, I also go into much more depth about the different programs we tried, and what helped and why. BEST of luck in your spelling journey! Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynful Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Another one here who doesn't totally understand why it works well, but it IS working. We were doing both A&P and Barton, but my ds just can't memorize all of the rules with Barton. So I've put Barton on hold and A&P / Fast Track is working well for him. I haven't yet decided if we'll go back to Barton in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swainsonshawk Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 We're using it, too. I bought the whole set for my older kids when they were 3-5th grades but could never seem to get into it or I wasn't patient enough with the copying and the process, so we dropped it. I rediscovered it on my shelf for my 2nd grader (beginning speller) and she is doing great. It's funny, because I "get it." She is learning to spell by word chunks without all the tedious memorizing of rules. I like it! What I don't like is the teacher guide. I could use a little guidance in how to pronounce some of the sounds--how do they want /y/ pronounced, for instance? It isn't in the book. Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have looked at the Apples and Pears website so many times over the past few years. I was thinking about it again. But, when I look at the samples, I really don't understand the approach. It looks like tracing and copying. I know in the TE you will dictate words and dictation sentences for them to spell, but I see no real teaching at all in the TE (maybe there is and I'm not seeing it...I'm mostly looking at A). I understand that it seems to break the words into morphemes....but, what am I missing here? Why is it raved about? Have any kids gotten confused with trying to listen to morphemes instead of syllables? Has anyone tried it and not liked it? Another "Don't understand how it works, but it's WORKING!" We're into book C of Apples and Pears. I'm still figuring out how it works, but it WORKS! Book A mostly introduced a whole bunch of small words - basic morphemes. The morphemes are introduced slowly and then drilled-to-kill. Book B started to put morphemes together, while still introducing new spelling patterns, and taught a few rules towards the end of the book. We just started book C, and Dd's spelling is really starting to come together. :hurray: It's been slow, methodical, time-consuming, but worth every second and cent we spent on it. Even dd is pleased with the result. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. I wanted to multiquote each of you and make comments....but it was too many to quote. I find this so fascinating that so many using it don't really understand it yet they say it is working. Although, we do have a winner.....Becky finally gets it (except for /y/). ;) Yay! We're using it, too. I bought the whole set for my older kids when they were 3-5th grades but could never seem to get into it or I wasn't patient enough with the copying and the process, so we dropped it. I rediscovered it on my shelf for my 2nd grader (beginning speller) and she is doing great. It's funny, because I "get it." She is learning to spell by word chunks without all the tedious memorizing of rules. I like it! What I don't like is the teacher guide. I could use a little guidance in how to pronounce some of the sounds--how do they want /y/ pronounced, for instance? It isn't in the book. Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I get it because it's the way I spell. For example when I spell "together" I break it down into to-get-her. Or "yesterday" is yes-ter-day. I could give example after example like this. It's just how I spell (and I'm a really good speller!). My brain automatically breaks words down into smaller parts (not necessarily syllables) to spell them. Apples and Pears is also working for my dd (no dyslexia or anything) when rule-based programs just frustrated her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 I get it because it's the way I spell. For example when I spell "together" I break it down into to-get-her. Or "yesterday" is yes-ter-day. I could give example after example like this. It's just how I spell (and I'm a really good speller!). My brain automatically breaks words down into smaller parts (not necessarily syllables) to spell them. Apples and Pears is also working for my dd (no dyslexia or anything) when rule-based programs just frustrated her. This is interesting. I get syllables.....yes-ter-day. I understand what morphemes are.....to-get-her. Buuuuuttt.....how do you know when the word is "together" that you aren't thinking of it in syllables? Or....how does the child know get-her is in there? How does the child know that it's to-get-her and not to-geth-er?? I know the answer is because you are looking at/hearing morphemes and not syllables. But.....it seems more confusing. Ahhh...I need more time to look at the samples, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I get it because it's the way I spell. For example when I spell "together" I break it down into to-get-her. Or "yesterday" is yes-ter-day. I could give example after example like this. It's just how I spell (and I'm a really good speller!). My brain automatically breaks words down into smaller parts (not necessarily syllables) to spell them. Apples and Pears is also working for my dd (no dyslexia or anything) when rule-based programs just frustrated her. I agree. It's the way I spell too. I also get a flash (picture) of words in my head. My thinking is that the writing and tracing could help cement that picture for a visual learner. We used 2 levels of AAS. While *I* liked the rules, I never knew the rules before so I obviously haven't been using them when I spell. DD hated AAS and it was doing nothing for her so I thought we would give the way I spell a try. We just started Apples and Pears A last week but so far we really like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Double Post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingCat Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I get syllables.....yes-ter-day. I understand what morphemes are.....to-get-her. Buuuuuttt.....how do you know when the word is "together" that you aren't thinking of it in syllables? Or....how does the child know get-her is in there? How does the child know that it's to-get-her and not to-geth-er?? I'm not expert on morphemes, but I don't think to-get-her would be the right morphemes just because to, get and her are words. I think the morphemes have to actually make sense to create the word - so it would more likely be to-geth-er with "geth" being some old English word or something - "er" is a regular morpheme, as in teach-er, and perhaps "to" is one too although all I can think of is to-day or to-morrow. Here's an example from "Word Root of the Day" : con- → with, together vent → come -ion → act, state, or result of doing something -al → of or relating to FWIW I am in the camp of "well, it works" for A&P - I'm not sure that is really because of the morphemes or just the repeitition though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm not expert on morphemes, but I don't think to-get-her would be the right morphemes just because to, get and her are words. I think the morphemes have to actually make sense to create the word - so it would more likely be to-geth-er with "geth" being some old English word or something - "er" is a regular morpheme, as in teach-er, and perhaps "to" is one too although all I can think of is to-day or to-morrow. Here's an example from "Word Root of the Day" : con- → with, together vent → come -ion → act, state, or result of doing something -al → of or relating to FWIW I am in the camp of "well, it works" for A&P - I'm not sure that is really because of the morphemes or just the repeitition though. I agree. Since we just started, I don't know what the proper morphemes are but in my head I say "to-geth-er". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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